Islam Must Rule the World

[Vega]

And not allowing Iranian economy to develop, blocking education and economic progress through incessant sanctions since 1970 (after 25 years of brutal rule under the western puppet) is helping how?

Iran has plenty of energy, It's self sufficient! there is no need to go nuclear or ballistic unless it feels it needs to. The smaller gulf states are no threat to Iran's sovereignity nor dependant on any of its resources.
The 70's are over this is the 21st century, Iran should put religious ideologies and threatful language aside and become a actively free and fair society where it's people should have the social freedoms as most people around the world.

 

[S.A.M.]

Iran has plenty of energy, It's self sufficient! there is no need to go nuclear or ballistic unless it feels it needs to. The smaller gulf states are no threat to Iran's sovereignity nor dependant on any of its resources.
The 70's are over this is the 21st century, Iran should put religious ideologies and threatful language aside and become a actively free and fair society where it's people should have the social freedoms as most people around the world.

Actually Iran imports much of its energy needs. And it has a right (as a signatory of NPT) to develop nuclear energy. A RIGHT. Something that Israel never had as it never signed the NPT (has, in fact, refused), and Israel has nuclear weapons.

Does anyone see how ridiculous this is?

And its not Iranian battleships in the Gulf, its not Iran that has threatened a missile strike.

 

[Vega]

Actually Iran imports much of its energy needs. And it has a right (as a signatory of NPT) to develop nuclear energy. A RIGHT. Something that Israel never had as it never signed the NPT, and Israel has nuclear weapons.

Does anyone see how ridiculous this is?

And its not Iranian battleships in the Gulf, its not Iran that has threatened a missile strike.

You forgetting Israel is a democracy!!! they don't usually hit the red button whenever they feel like it!

 

[S.A.M.]

You forgetting Israel is a democracy!!! they don't usually hit the red button whenever they feel like it!

Their history so far does nothing to prove that.

And if the Israeli archives are any indication, this has been a deliberate pattern from the very beginning.

And you cannot have a democracy based on ethnic lineage; thats just mumbo jumbo propaganda to keep the idoits pacified.

 

[Vega]

Their history so far does nothing to prove that.

And if the Israeli archives are any indication, this has been a deliberate pattern from the very beginning.

And you cannot have a democracy based on ethnic lineage; thats just mumbo jumbo propaganda to keep the idoits pacified.

Well if thats how you base your opinions then who am I to argue!

 

[S.A.M.]

Well if thats how you base your opinions then who am I to argue!

You have a better source than the Israeli historical archives/declassified documents?

 

[Vega]

You have a better source than the Israeli historical archives/declassified documents?

Like I said you determine a nation's hostile aggressiveness by comparing historical data!

Your assumptions are baseless and therfore irrelevant as it only applies to the past and not the present.

 

[S.A.M.]

Like I said you determine a nation's hostile aggressiveness by comparing historical data!

Your assumptions are baseless and therfore irrelevant as it only applies to the past and not the present.

Nope, it applies from inception until today. How is that irrelevant; its an unbroken chain of ethnic cleansing, recorded in their own documents. Not an assumption, not baseless, not irrelevant, based on their own declassified documents.

 

[Norsefire]

Illegal occupation... wtf do you mean. How is it illegal? All over history people have conquered other countries. Including muslims...

Yes, but the 1948 is no conquest. It is an illegal occupation, because it was given to the Jews by the UN who were desperate to run away from their bland and boring lives, therefore they did not "conquer" it, it was merely given at will as if the Palestinians did not matter.
If they had taken it by force, then that is different.


Baron, you're willing to gamble with the lives of thousands, millions, of Arabs?

 

[Vega]

Nope, it applies from inception until today. How is that irrelevant; its an unbroken chain of ethnic cleansing, recorded in their own documents. Not an assumption, not baseless, not irrelevant, based on their own declassified documents.

I'm afraid your information does not owe to the fact that a country is within it's right to defend itself militarily. In war lives are lost people who get in the way get killed everyone knows that.

 

[S.A.M.]

I'm afraid your information does not owe to the fact that a country is within it's right to defend itself militarily. In war lives are lost people who get in the way get killed everyone knows that.

I don't think self defense includes putting people into vehicles by force and dumping them elsewhere. And killing them if they resist. Does it? I believe the last time it was tried, a whole lot of people gasped at the injustice of it.

 

[Vega]

I don't think self defense includes putting people into vehicles by force and dumping them elsewhere. And killing them if they resist. Does it?

nor does it include using hateful language to destroy an entire nation just because they exist!

 

[S.A.M.]

nor does it include using hateful language to destroy an entire nation just because they exist!

No one can destroy a nation, except the people who live in it. What do you mean by hateful language? I am merely presenting the facts.

Are you saying that you support all the ethnic cleansing? That opposing it constitutes hateful language?

 

[Vega]

No one can destroy a nation, except the people who live in it. What do you mean by hateful language? I am merely presenting the facts.

Unfortunatley your facts have no relevance to the present! you are going around in circles.

 

[S.A.M.]

Unfortunatley your facts have no relevance to the present! you are going around in circles.

Read the news. Last month, Israel shut down electric supply, millions of people in Gaza were without electricity. (this includes not only houses, but also sanitation, hospitals). The World Food Program has declared a human rights crisis as they find it difficult to send food to the Palestinians due to blockades by Israel; people die at checkpoints attempting to reach medical aid. I'm afraid this is all very much the present. And it is ethnic cleansing, unrestricted and supported by the democratic nation of Israel. All as they illegally occupy another country and people.

 

[S.A.M.]

Here is what an anti-Zionist Palestinian Jew has to say about it:

When there isn't universal citizenship that is equitable to all, democratic values are compromised in a serious way. A quintessential illustration of this is Apartheid South Africa, where 87% of the territory of South Africa was reserved under law for white citizens only, and denied from non-white citizens.

I fear that the situation in Israel is comparable, and I'm not talking about popular xenophobia, but rather a situation regulated by an act of parliament where 93% of the territory of the State of Israel - and I am not referring to the West Bank and the Gaza Strip - is reserved under law for Jewish citizens only. If the apartheid distinction in South Africa was between white and non-white, the apartheid distinction in Israel is between Jew and non-Jew.

So, one cannot talk of Israeli citizenship in the same sense that one could talk of Canadian citizenship, because - racist practices and popular xenophobia in Canada notwithstanding - all citizens are equal before the law. This is not so in Israel: Jewish citizens are citizens of class A, and non-Jews are second, third and fourth class citizens.

However, the first impression of Israel to a lay-visitor would possibly be the impression of a standard liberal Western democracy: there are no buses for Jews, buses for non-Jews; parks for Jews and parks for non-Jews; beaches for Jews and beaches for non-Jews. The core apartheid is veiled, and the Jewish National Fund plays an important part in the construction of this veil.

The Jewish National Fund, including the Jewish National Fund of Canada, projects itself as an environmentally friendly organization concerned with ecology and sustainable development. It plants forests and establishes recreation facilities open to all. Well, it is the case that JNF forests and facilities are open to all, but it is equally the case that that most - almost without exception all - of these forests are planted on the ruins of Palestinian Arab villages ethnically cleansed in the 1948-49 war.

To ethnically cleanse indigenous localities and reduce their population into the misery of statelessness and refugee existence is a war crime. It is not charitable, as the JNF would have you believe, it is a war crime. The forests of the Jewish National Fund are there to veil this criminality and, to my reading, the Jewish National Fund afforestation activity is an accomplice to the cover-up of war crimes.

The apartheid is revealed when one visits Canada Park and realizes that Canada Park is planted over the ruins of three Palestinian-Arab localities - Amwas, Yalu and Beit Nuba. It is revealed when one realizes that the cemetery of Amwas is desecrated by Jewish National Fund activity, and that the trees are planted among the surviving tombstones.

Expulsion is not an alternative to apartheid; expulsion is an extreme form of apartheid - a particularly venomous and criminal form of apartheid. Bantustanization should in no way be considered as a slightly better alternative to expulsion.

What the wall today represents is an attempt by the government of the State of Israel to cap the expulsion - the ethnic cleansing - perpetrated in the course of the 1948-49 war with a Bantustan solution for the rest of the country.

In this, they believe they have succeeded; but they are totally misguided in sealing the fate of the 1948 refugees. If anybody believes that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict can be resolved without addressing the 1948 refugee problem in humanitarian and politically-relevant terms, they are seriously misguided.

The Palestine refugees - the four or five million refugees and their descendants - quite rightly organize and lobby in defence of their right to return and the right to the titles to their properties inside Israel.

The attempts to Bantustanize the West Bank and Gaza Strip occupied in 1967 will fail in Palestine just as it has failed in South Africa. One simply mourns the bloodshed that this entails and the suffering in the first instance inflicted against the indigenous people.

The question of terrorism and the casualties inflicted by terrorism on an innocent civilian population is a very serious question, but the wall is not there to alleviate this crisis of terrorism - the wall is there in the first instance as an attempt to Bantustanize Palestine and to isolate the indigenous population in what are effectively huge concentration camps.

Terrorism and targeting civilian population is a serious crisis, but anyone approaching the crisis in decent terms ought to recognize that the first terrorist actor in this awful equation is not the Palestinian suicide bomber, but the Israeli army and the government of the State of Israel.

Any statement of condemnation of terrorism in the region should encompass all terrorist actors. I personally would refuse to sign any statement of condemnation of terrorism that doesn't list Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and Defence Minister Shaul Mofaz as first on a long list, and a Palestinian suicide bomber as last.

-Uri Davis

 

[Vega]

Read the news. Last month, Israel shut down electric supply, millions of people in Gaza were without electricity. (this includes not only houses, but also sanitation, hospitals). The World Food Program has declared a human rights crisis as they find it difficult to send food to the Palestinians due to blockades by Israel; people die at checkpoints attempting to reach medical aid. I'm afraid this is all very much the present. And it is ethnic cleansing, unrestricted and supported by the democratic nation of Israel. All as they illegally occupy another country and people.

You have to take in account the geo-political situation in that region. The hezbollah are bent on destroying Israel as it see's as an occupier. Israel has just much right to be there as the palestinians going back centuries.
The only reason there is conflict is because the hezbollah dominated governement seeks more aggressive control over the land through mass propoganda. They portray the sufferings of their own people as a result of Israel's occupying motives rather than accept responsibilty for their own consequences .

 

[S.A.M.]

You have to take in account the geo-political situation in that region. The hezbollah are bent on destroying Israel as it see's as an occupier. Israel has just much right to be there as the palestinians going back centuries.
The only reason there is conflict is because the hezbollah dominated governement seeks more aggressive control over the land through mass propoganda. They portray the sufferings of their own people as a result of Israel's occupying motives rather than accept responsibilty for their own consequences .

All this is mere fantasy, you know that right? The Hezbollah have always targeted the military and their current fight is to free the thousands of people (including young children) in Israeli prisons. They have also never invaded Israel.

 

[Vega]

All this is mere fantasy, you know that right? The Hezbollah have always targeted the military and their current fight is to free the thousands of people (including young children) in Israeli prisons. They have also never invaded Israel.

...then I guess suicide bombings are simple fantasy too... probably just rabbi's in disguise blowing innocent people up!

 

[S.A.M.]

...then I guess suicide bombings are simple fantasy too... probably just rabbi's in disguise blowing innocent people up!

Try exchanging paranoia for reality; it takes a certain level of desperation to reach the point where tying a bomb to your chest seems more worthwhile than the indignity of living. Remember, there were no suicide bombers in Palestine or Lebanon, before there was Israel.