Is Muslim terrorism due to defects in the faith?
- Thread starter charles brough
- Start date
its been said here somewhere else..
both the fundamental and literal approach to religion causes problems..and i agree.
both the fundamental and literal approach to religion causes problems..and i agree.
Nor are you free in Christianity. Yet christians manage to ignore Leviticus.
Terrorism maybe, but totalitarianism is inherent to all the Abrahamic religions. It's not extreme, it's orthodoxy. God is always watching you and what you do and even think.
That's because Christianity is an awkward amalgam of Jewish and Christian ideas. Islam is more uniform and consistent.
@billvon --
That's only because christianity has undergone multiple reformations and has been tempered by enlightenment values such as freedom of speech and freedom of religion. Islam hasn't had any reformations and given the rabid hatred towards apostasy and blasphemy in the muslim world, it doesn't seem likely that they will.
That's only because christianity has undergone multiple reformations and has been tempered by enlightenment values such as freedom of speech and freedom of religion. Islam hasn't had any reformations and given the rabid hatred towards apostasy and blasphemy in the muslim world, it doesn't seem likely that they will.
Hmm. If you really think that any Christian religion teaches "freedom of religion" as a core value I think you are mistaken.
The Muslims I know are just as 'reformed' as the Christians I know. In both cases there are exceptions, of course - I trust you haven't forgotten Breivik or the Westboro Baptists.
@billvon --
That was my point. Christianity doesn't teach freedom of religion or freedom of speech as a core value, those are Enlightenment values that came later. Christianity has been tempered by the Enlightenment to include those values regardless of their theological legitimacy, to the point that many modern christians actually consider them to be christian values(unless you use them to argue against christianity that is).
Yes, most muslims in the West are just as devoted to freedom as anyone, to the point that I personally know more than a hundred muslims who took part in "Draw Muhammad Day". However in the muslim world, in other words where islam is the law rather than a choice, no such reformation has taken place. It's as if we've been given a mirror in which we can look back at fourteenth century christianity in all of their evil.
You missed the point entirely.
That was my point. Christianity doesn't teach freedom of religion or freedom of speech as a core value, those are Enlightenment values that came later. Christianity has been tempered by the Enlightenment to include those values regardless of their theological legitimacy, to the point that many modern christians actually consider them to be christian values(unless you use them to argue against christianity that is).
Yes, most muslims in the West are just as devoted to freedom as anyone, to the point that I personally know more than a hundred muslims who took part in "Draw Muhammad Day". However in the muslim world, in other words where islam is the law rather than a choice, no such reformation has taken place. It's as if we've been given a mirror in which we can look back at fourteenth century christianity in all of their evil.
You missed the point entirely.
O.K. Charles I am going to attempt a link . If I am successful it might behoove you to read it for a better understanding of Muslim mind sets . At least any that read these writings if they present for you . O.K. wish Me luck
http://khalifatullahmehdi.info/books/english/Al-Aqaid-partIII.PDF
Jesus freed them from the law . He only imposed the ten commandments. That is why everybody loves Jesus . He took away the burden of busy work in that manner . By offering him self as the sacrifice he did away with the law . They should have burned him like Burning Man . That would have made more sense if you ask Me . That is why the laws of Leviticus are not observed . Now if i am not mistaken Muslims follow a lot of those laws to this day . Do they ? The way they think about women seems to be pretty close ?
Whats the matter with you . Should I slap you . Wake up man . It is all a dream .
@Me-Ki-Gal --
Or did he? If I recall properly, Jesus said that not one jot or tiddle, or to be more specific, "not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."
The translation being that nobody who follows the Christ should ignore the law. Of course "the law" includes things like stoning disobedient children(and not the "stoning" of pot heads) and killing nonbelievers.
Of course, that's just the bible that says that, and who would believe that?
Or did he? If I recall properly, Jesus said that not one jot or tiddle, or to be more specific, "not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."
The translation being that nobody who follows the Christ should ignore the law. Of course "the law" includes things like stoning disobedient children(and not the "stoning" of pot heads) and killing nonbelievers.
Of course, that's just the bible that says that, and who would believe that?
Religious war is also allowed in the Jewish faith: Judaism. In fact it's being actively promoted by rabbis in Israel against non-believers.spidergoat said:
It's why the IDF sends teams of snipers to terrorise Palestinians and shoot at children, and why IDF soldiers try to run the same children down as they drive around. Everything in Israel is subordinate to the Jewish cause, that's why Judaism is evil.
Can you imagine these people with nukes? Oh, wait.
Christian fundamentalists seem to also be justified in the use of terrorist tactics against non-believers. It's in fact as old as religion, so your singling out of Islam is just you making a facile, self serving argument, once again.
Which is pretty much what the OP is trying to do.
Well, the Old Testament and its "law" is believed by those of the Jewish faith, especially by rabbis. To much the same degree the Quran is believed by those of the Muslim faith.Arioch said:
charles brough
Registered Senior Member
Correct! I propose that, indirectly, all such terrorists are motivated by extreme stress involving a lowering of their status by the religious enemy. Some American men take their general low-status stress out on their wives or children. Others focus it on "society" and get into a fight with the police. To do that, they kill as many people as possible---the more they "take out" the more they feel revenged and their status restored (through media notariety). And they expect to go out "in style"---that is, to be shot down by the police (as was Jesus' supposed fate!) or to kill themselves. This is our American type terrorism.
I could tell that Islamic people felt a subtle surge of "prestige" from 9/11 (I lived in Indonesia at the time). We as the most powerful nation couldn't let that prevail so we went to war. Men here were furious at the "insult" of 9/11 while women were afraid for their children. We would have assaulted our own president if we hadn't invaded Afghanistan as people began returning to church (!).
The more we involve ourselves in Islam, the longer their subtle but deep resentment over our persistant support for Israel will continue even increase. We can keep killing off their leaders, but the size of the rank and file keeps growing. It is not something Muslims can easily forget. We don't forget such things either and are determined to keep 9/11 in mind.
brough
http://civilization-overview.com
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Matthew 5:17-18: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
charles brough
Registered Senior Member
I think it is a mistake to think of our secular ideology as a modification of Christianity. It has resulted in what is might be called "liberal Christians."
They have managed to compromise both Christian doctrine and Secular science in order to reach this inherently contradictory belief. They support the mainline churches and go to them Sunday mornings once in a while. While there, I see the church parking lot far from full. The Southern Baptists, Evangelicals and Evangelicals have full parking lots. They are the ones who like to believe they take "the word of God" literally . . .
Yes, we have a secular ideology called Secular Humanism. It is a weak sort of religion that is not satisfactory enough to replace completely the other faiths. Indeed, they are in some ways regaining strength from its weaknesses. A big sign of its weakness is the near-deadlock in Congress and the ponderously slow progress in "spreading democracy" as well as what is perceived as an economic decline and moral breakdown here.
brough
http/:civilization-overvidew.com
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Thanks for agreeing with me! That's the exact point I was trying to make. But we are only talking about Islam because that's the subject of this thread.