Is it wrong to have sex for fun, knowing it might possibly lead to an abortion?

[SetiAlpha6]

Is suicide a crime?

God is real, and He really loves you!

I do not know you or your circumstances.

But God is perfect both in mercy and justice balancing them both perfectly.

And He will do what is right for you, whatever that is.

He knows and understands you and your circumstances perfectly. Nothing is hidden from Him. You are like an open book to Him.

I am so sorry, for your pain!!!

I have had both physical pain, and emotional pain in my life, and I have thought about suicide myself in the past! Life can be so overwhelming and seem so hopeless at times. I understand!

As for me, when I feel that way, I pray to God and ask Him to heal both my body and my mind. And I ask Him to forgive me for the evil I have done. And I ask Him to give me the hope I need to keep going.

You know very well that there is no hope in Atheism, there never has been, there is only despair.

Jesus gives me hope, both for now and for the future.

And He can give hope to you as well.

Just ask Him into your life!

 

[Beer w/Straw]

And He will do what is right for you, whatever that is.

Go fuck yourself.

 

[Michael 345]

Is suicide a crime?

Punishable by death penalty

But I do understand some religions class it as a sin???

Jumping the queue???

Guess can't swindle money from a dead believer

 

[SetiAlpha6]

Go fuck yourself.

God Bless!

 

[billvon]

Wrong! You are twisting my words and intent.

Ah, so you would not stand in the way of a woman who was raped getting an abortion. Good for you.

You are actually inverting reality to justify your sin!

Which sin is that?

 

[SetiAlpha6]

Ah, so you would not stand in the way of a woman who was raped getting an abortion. Good for you.

Which sin is that?

You just did it again!

It’s ok, I forgive you, for twisting my words over and over again.

Of course I would stand in the way of a Mother killing her own child! I would ask her not to do it, but I cannot force or stop her from hiring killers to do it.

Abortion doctors kill children, by the millions for money here, you know that. The killing of your own children is legal in the United States. It is a money making industry here.

People can become rich off of the shed blood of the innocents here. Everyone knows that!

The doctors here want unrestricted killing laws passed.

Gold for blood!

 

[sculptor]

Well, how do you feel about that?

Suicide is a right---not a privilege.
It seems to run in families.

What happens if you fail---but harm yourself irreparably?

 

[billvon]

Of course I would stand in the way of a Mother killing her own child! I would ask her not to do it,, but I cannot force or stop her from hiring killers to do it.

Then you would not stand in her way. Good for you. ("Standing in her way" would be preventing her from getting the abortion.)

Abortion doctors kill children for money here, you know that. The killing of your own children is legal in the United States. It is a money making industry here.

Yep. And thousands of lives have been helped by that - even though millions of fetuses have died. That is the reality.

Doctors have an oath to help their patients. Good for them for putting the welfare of their patients over the opinions of a clueless government bureaucrat.

 

[SetiAlpha6]

Money for Murder!

 

[billvon]

Money for Murder!

Yep. Most doctors kill for money. You ever taken an antibiotic?

 

[James R]

SetiAlpha6:

As I said, you have a very beautiful heart. That is not flattery, I sincerely mean that. It is the whole reason these accounts bother you in the first place!

I'm not that interested in your opinion of me. But since we're telling each other what we think of each other, here's what I think about you. I think you lack a proper moral compass. You're so blinded by your religion that you're unable to think straight, to the point where you make feeble excuses in order to prop up your failed religious morality to your own satisfaction. You pretend to care about "life" in an abstract sense, but when it comes to the real lives of women, what matters to you above and beyond all else, is that you and your religion have the power and control.

Basically, without going into a lengthy argument, many of these types of accounts, which should not even be there if all of this was fabricated, are loving on a Worldwide scale.

This is the excuse that God's evil actions can be excused on the assumption that God has a Bigger Plan, and he Works in Mysterious Ways. Right? You can excuse just about anything in a religion with that one.

Many of these accounts describe people who worship demons, enslave temple prostitutes, and sacrifice their own children alive on altars to those demons.

I see. This excuses God commanding his faithful followers to kill the innocent children of these people and to take the virgin women and rape them? Is that what you're telling me?

They are like a cancer in the body, and they will spread and raise generation after generation to worship demons after them. And they can even spread this mental virus throughout the world until all men are wicked.

God has rightfully judged this kind of behavior over and over again because it is evil, and is detestable. They must be cut out of the world like cancer must be cut out of the body, to save the whole body (world).

So you're saying it is right for God not only to punish the evil parents, but also their innocent children. You're comfortable with that, are you?

What about the places in the bible where God or Jesus says it's okay to own slaves - even to beat them? Are you down with that, too?

It is a matter of perspective. I hate what happened, but these people chose their own fate with their own free choice. They were warned by God and they refused to repent. Their choice!

When did the innocent children, who God commanded his followers to kill, make an evil choice?

Or are you saying they are acceptable collateral damage in God's Quest for World Purity?

So here is the typical nonsense I hear from people. It goes something like this...

Why is there evil if God is good? How can He allow evil to exist, and be good. God must be evil!

And then when God judges a person or nation for being evil and does something about it, perhaps even makes a horrific example out of them to the other nations... ...these same people turn right around and...

They criticize Him for putting a stop to evil, for preventing it from spreading, like cancer. Criticize Him for making an example of them to the other nations. As if He is wicked for doing that. So again, God must be evil!

Apparently God is evil either way He responds to evil.

There are many possible ways God could stop the kind of evil you are talking about, but apparently God chose to commit genocide, to enslave the virgin women and to kill innocents. In my opinion, probably not the best option an Omnipotent Being could have chosen, in the circumstances. But you're all for it, apparently. What's wrong with you? Why do you turn a blind eye to evil when it is carried out by those who share your religion, or by your God?

I hope and trust you are not doing this kind of thing James. Because it really is a poor approach.

Last time I checked, I wasn't the one wanting to force women to have their rapists' babies. That is all on you.

I'd say it's you who has a "poor approach". You need to get a moral compass that doesn't force you to contort yourself to try to excuse obvious and indefensible evil acts.

 

[James R]

SetiAlpha6:

Back to that nasty business of killing children for pay, sometimes a lot of pay, Abortion.

I'm not sure whether you're talking about legal or illegal abortion, on the money side, so I'm going to skip over your insinuation that doctors who carry out abortions are in it for the money for now.

How is it possible for someone to believe in the Golden Rule, do unto others as you would have them do unto you, and yet also participate in the process of killing a child in a Mother’s womb?

It is possible if one has empathy - if one is able to imagine oneself in the shoes of the woman making the often incredibly difficult decision as to what to do about an unplanned pregnancy.

The person who follows the Golden Rule in that situation asks questions like "If I was in her shoes, would I want the Church or the Government to remove my right to make this decision?" If the person following the Rule would want the right to choose, then according the Rule it would be wrong for the rule-follower to abrogate that person's right to choose.

Of course, a sophisticated moral analysis of all the relevant interests - including those of the foetus/embryo/unborn child - does not depend on a single Rule only, but carefully weighs up competing interests and looks for the greatest Good.

Do they wish they had been killed in their Mother’s womb? Do they wish they were never born?

Do they wish the Church or the State had such control over them that they were no longer permitted to make choices in their own interests, and the interests of their family?

Can’t they figure out they were also once vulnerable and innocent and inside the womb of their Mother in the same position as that child, just like the child they are about kill?

Can't they figure out that mothers are women - people - whose rights matter as much or more than those of a bunch of cells, or a foetus?

How do they take part in the murder of another person, who is just like they used to be, and still hold onto, do unto others as you would have them do unto you?

You use the word "murder". Where is this "murder" you speak of? And where is this "person" you speak of - the "murder victim"?

 

[James R]

SetiAlpha6:

It is her child!

Children of rape are born all the time, and their Mother’s treasure them every day of their lives.

You are telling us it is right to force a raped woman to have her rapist's child, regardless of what she wants.

Suppose she does have the child and treasures it every day of her life afterwards. How on earth does that do anything to excuse your evil act in forcing her to do something against her will?

Maybe your argument is that, retrospectively, you did what was best for her, and not just what was best for the child. But you couldn't know it would turn out that way.

Suppose, instead, that you force her to have the child, and after birth she abandons it, and the child grows up to live a life of complete misery and poverty on the streets as a drug-addicted prostitute. Will you still tell us that your forcing that woman to bear the child was the right thing for you to do, for all concerned? How are you going to justify your actions in that case?

And the children are grateful for life.

And the ones who aren't, like the child in the second example, above?

Children are a gift of God.

God has a funny way to show his love when his gift comes at the price of being raped, then having that rape compounded by some religious nut forcing you to have the child against your will.

The baby, is a separate life from both the mother and father and is vulnerable and innocent.

An unborn child is not separate from its mother.

A desire to prohibit the killing of an innocent human being in utero is not equivalent to making a woman undergo childbirth.

Functionally, it is. You were asked if you would force raped women to bear their rapists' children, regardless of what they want. You told us that, yes, you would force them to do that, by power of law (at least). That's you making women undergo childbirth, right there.

The difference is apparent if you hypothetically drop the pregnant woman on a deserted island with shelter and plenty of food and drink.

Without either a pro-life advocate or an abortion doctor present to meddle, what happens? The woman “will undergo childbirth.”

No person or government agency will have “made her undergo childbirth.”

The word you've left out of your desert island scenario is "choice".

Try inserting that word, and see what happens.

"A woman chooses to become pregnant and have a baby on a desert island"

is rather different from

"A woman is raped on a desert island, desperately wants to terminate the pregnancy, but is prevented from doing so because of the absence of appropriate medical facilities."

Also compare:

"The government drops raped women onto desert islands so they can 'undergo childbirth', according to laws passed at the instigation of the Church of SetiAlpha6."

News flash!!! Childbirth is the natural conclusion of a pregnancy. It is a normal natural process. You don’t have to force anything to have it continue to completion.

What's "natural" about helicoptering raped women out to desert islands for the term of their pregnancies, then picking them up once their babies are born?

The word you left out of your scenario is "choice". Who made the choices in your scenario? Clearly, it wasn't the women.

It is Abortion that alters the natural process already in progress, by deliberately killing the child.

If you're so in favour of preserving "natural processes", why do you wear clothes? Wouldn't it be more "natural" to go naked? Shouldn't the government, in fact, force you to go naked, because, like, it's natural and all?

The government could helicopter you out to a desert island and drop you there without clothes. Then you'd "undergo clotheslessness" in the "natural" way. I'm sure your God would approve. There'd be no need to ask you whether you wanted to go there, because the "natural" way must necessarily work out for the best. You told us that.

And if, by some chance while you're on the island, you catch a "natural" infectious disease and die, I guess you'd just be "undergoing medical abstinence". It would be for your own good, of course.

Would you force an innocent child to die?

If it was good enough for God, why wouldn't it be good enough for you?

 

[James R]

OK. So you would force a rape victim to bear the rapist's child.

Nuff said.

Wrong!

You are twisting my words and intent.

Well, let's clarify the matter.

A woman is raped, and wants to terminate the resulting pregnancy. You are the judge appointed to decide whether she should have permission to terminate her pregnancy. Your word is law.

Tell us what your decision is in this scenario.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

by the millions for money

stats ?
could you post a link please ?

Money for Murder!

like the military are paid to kill people ? and like the judges in courts where they have the death penalty ?

i thought anti abortionists were pro death penalty ?

what is an

Abortion doctors

?
do they go to a special medical school to study killing babies ?

please explain ?

 

[SetiAlpha6]

SetiAlpha6:


I'm not that interested in your opinion of me. But since we're telling each other what we think of each other, here's what I think about you. I think you lack a proper moral compass. You're so blinded by your religion that you're unable to think straight, to the point where you make feeble excuses in order to prop up your failed religious morality to your own satisfaction. You pretend to care about "life" in an abstract sense, but when it comes to the real lives of women, what matters to you above and beyond all else, is that you and your religion have the power and control.


This is the excuse that God's evil actions can be excused on the assumption that God has a Bigger Plan, and he Works in Mysterious Ways. Right? You can excuse just about anything in a religion with that one.


I see. This excuses God commanding his faithful followers to kill the innocent children of these people and to take the virgin women and rape them? Is that what you're telling me?


So you're saying it is right for God not only to punish the evil parents, but also their innocent children. You're comfortable with that, are you?

What about the places in the bible where God or Jesus says it's okay to own slaves - even to beat them? Are you down with that, too?


When did the innocent children, who God commanded his followers to kill, make an evil choice?

Or are you saying they are acceptable collateral damage in God's Quest for World Purity?


There are many possible ways God could stop the kind of evil you are talking about, but apparently God chose to commit genocide, to enslave the virgin women and to kill innocents. In my opinion, probably not the best option an Omnipotent Being could have chosen, in the circumstances. But you're all for it, apparently. What's wrong with you? Why do you turn a blind eye to evil when it is carried out by those who share your religion, or by your God?


Last time I checked, I wasn't the one wanting to force women to have their rapists' babies. That is all on you.

I'd say it's you who has a "poor approach". You need to get a moral compass that doesn't force you to contort yourself to try to excuse obvious and indefensible evil acts.

No!

 

[SetiAlpha6]

SetiAlpha6:


I'm not sure whether you're talking about legal or illegal abortion, on the money side, so I'm going to skip over your insinuation that doctors who carry out abortions are in it for the money for now.


It is possible if one has empathy - if one is able to imagine oneself in the shoes of the woman making the often incredibly difficult decision as to what to do about an unplanned pregnancy.

The person who follows the Golden Rule in that situation asks questions like "If I was in her shoes, would I want the Church or the Government to remove my right to make this decision?" If the person following the Rule would want the right to choose, then according the Rule it would be wrong for the rule-follower to abrogate that person's right to choose.

Of course, a sophisticated moral analysis of all the relevant interests - including those of the foetus/embryo/unborn child - does not depend on a single Rule only, but carefully weighs up competing interests and looks for the greatest Good.


Do they wish the Church or the State had such control over them that they were no longer permitted to make choices in their own interests, and the interests of their family?


Can't they figure out that mothers are women - people - whose rights matter as much or more than those of a bunch of cells, or a foetus?


You use the word "murder". Where is this "murder" you speak of? And where is this "person" you speak of - the "murder victim"?

Wrong on multiple levels.

 

[SetiAlpha6]

SetiAlpha6:


You are telling us it is right to force a raped woman to have her rapist's child, regardless of what she wants.

Suppose she does have the child and treasures it every day of her life afterwards. How on earth does that do anything to excuse your evil act in forcing her to do something against her will?

Maybe your argument is that, retrospectively, you did what was best for her, and not just what was best for the child. But you couldn't know it would turn out that way.

Suppose, instead, that you force her to have the child, and after birth she abandons it, and the child grows up to live a life of complete misery and poverty on the streets as a drug-addicted prostitute. Will you still tell us that your forcing that woman to bear the child was the right thing for you to do, for all concerned? How are you going to justify your actions in that case?


And the ones who aren't, like the child in the second example, above?


God has a funny way to show his love when his gift comes at the price of being raped, then having that rape compounded by some religious nut forcing you to have the child against your will.


An unborn child is not separate from its mother.


Functionally, it is. You were asked if you would force raped women to bear their rapists' children, regardless of what they want. You told us that, yes, you would force them to do that, by power of law (at least). That's you making women undergo childbirth, right there.


The word you've left out of your desert island scenario is "choice".

Try inserting that word, and see what happens.

"A woman chooses to become pregnant and have a baby on a desert island"

is rather different from

"A woman is raped on a desert island, desperately wants to terminate the pregnancy, but is prevented from doing so because of the absence of appropriate medical facilities."

Also compare:

"The government drops raped women onto desert islands so they can 'undergo childbirth', according to laws passed at the instigation of the Church of SetiAlpha6."


What's "natural" about helicoptering raped women out to desert islands for the term of their pregnancies, then picking them up once their babies are born?

The word you left out of your scenario is "choice". Who made the choices in your scenario? Clearly, it wasn't the women.


If you're so in favour of preserving "natural processes", why do you wear clothes? Wouldn't it be more "natural" to go naked? Shouldn't the government, in fact, force you to go naked, because, like, it's natural and all?

The government could helicopter you out to a desert island and drop you there without clothes. Then you'd "undergo clotheslessness" in the "natural" way. I'm sure your God would approve. There'd be no need to ask you whether you wanted to go there, because the "natural" way must necessarily work out for the best. You told us that.

And if, by some chance while you're on the island, you catch a "natural" infectious disease and die, I guess you'd just be "undergoing medical abstinence". It would be for your own good, of course.


If it was good enough for God, why wouldn't it be good enough for you?

Mostly a misrepresentation of the facts involved.

 

[James R]

Good to see you marshalling an argument in support of your repulsive opinions, SetiAlpha. Is this the best you can do?

Here's a pointed question to get you started, if you want to re-engage more honestly on this topic.

A woman is raped, and wants to terminate the resulting pregnancy. You are the judge appointed to decide whether she should have permission to terminate her pregnancy. Your word is law.

Tell us what your decision is in this scenario.​

 

[SetiAlpha6]

Well, let's clarify the matter.

A woman is raped, and wants to terminate the resulting pregnancy. You are the judge appointed to decide whether she should have permission to terminate her pregnancy. Your word is law.

Tell us what your decision is in this scenario.

You know very well that the Child inside her is innocent, just as you were at that time. Literally the most vulnerable and innocent among us!