Is islam really the fastest growing religion?

[surenderer]

islam is racist, it banishes all non-arab cultures, ethnicities, races to secondary status, while its not unique, other cultures have done the same, it has taken arabic mores, culture, ideas, worldview to the heights, by putting arabic on the top-of-the-heap, why the only true message from god is the quran according to muslims, & you can't translate it, or it loses its meaning

Dang dude how is not translating the Koran amount to racism? It is a fact that certain words dont translate from one language to another(and if they do they lose their meaning) and it is also a fact that that very reason is why their is so many inconsistences with the Bible today.Islam teaches that if you want to read the Koran then learn Arabic then you have the knowledge to accept or reject it not because of how someone translated it but on how you fell about the message. I dont know how Islam banishes all non-arab cultures when arabs only make up about 17% of all muslims in the world today

 

[surenderer]

i dunno

would a muslim actually FEEL happy for 9/11?

people dancing on the streets of the COUNTRY they're IN that just had 3000 people dead, thas disrespect

on the news, angry mobs of muslims in britain burned the uk flag vowing bloodshed if tony blair does not withdraw english soldiers out of iraq--if they despise a country enuf 2 BURN the flag the very country htey on why bother?

why would you kill innocent people for your own cause?

sure their is an dioplomatic way out of it, say petitions

you heard about france right? how they are banning sikhs from wearing turbans, muslims and jews cannot wear thier caps, the muslim gurls cannot wear their hijab either, do uthink its right what they're doing?

A true muslim wouldnt feel happy about the death of anyone innocent(i lost family on 9-11 by the way) and yes its very disrespectfull. Im sure since the UK had plenty of protests over Blairs backing of Bush that it was more than Muslims burning flags and protesting the war in Iraq....that wasnt a muslim thing that was an unprovoked attack on a soverign nation thing. Any one who kills innocent life for a cause is going against Gods will in the Koran he says" to save an innocent life is like saving all of humanity" and i think banning hijabs or turbins or sikhs or anything that any other religion wants to wear is absoulutly wrong.

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Dang dude how is not translating the Koran amount to racism? It is a fact that certain words dont translate from one language to another(and if they do they lose their meaning) and it is also a fact that that very reason is why their is so many inconsistences with the Bible today.Islam teaches that if you want to read the Koran then learn Arabic then you have the knowledge to accept or reject it not because of how someone translated it but on how you fell about the message. I dont know how Islam banishes all non-arab cultures when arabs only make up about 17% of all muslims in the world today

how many new converts keep their birth names? what's wrong with these names? what is Jose Padilla's new name? how about that Lindh dude? what about Cat Stevens? what's your name hmmm? could it be "George Smith"? what do you call that? I call it cultural imperialism, plain & simple!


You have to learn arabic to make a true judgement on the quran? your 'fate' rests on your 'faith' that an arabic tribal god is the god of the universe? he sounds 'tartamudo' to me, allah studders or has an accent in other languages?

your allah god should have used a better language then to send down the quran, so that it could be translated easily to the 'masses', is that to hard for the so-called god of the Universe to do? I think it should have been Mexican spanish; now there's a sweet, to the point, poetic, funny, sad, lamenting, crying, joyful, hilarious, humorous, angry, easy to learn & understand language, a perfect language for any god, especially a god bent on world domination, can you say, "tirano, dictador, general, jefe"?

 

[path]

To the west Jihad means mostlly war because if you think that they(muslims) are trying to kill you then you wont feel so bad when you kill them to avenge 3000 innocent lives lost on 9-11 the US has killed at least 15-20 thousand people Even my 2nd grade daughter knows that is bad math. Is that how you get rid of terrorism by making more terrorists? What you guys dont understand is that in Arab culture when someone is murdered it becomes his family's job to avenge that death.....thats tribal law so thats why as time goes on you see continous fighting. If islam was trying to take over the world why isnt Indonesia a haven for terrorists? why doesnt Canada experience terrorism?how aboutUS state sponsered(sp?) terrorism? how many has it killed?(hint: a heck of a lot more than muslim terrorism) Why dont you ever talk about that? As far as your links on the internet( the internet is both good and bad) you can find anyone to support what ever view you want to present but reality is that 1 out of every 5 people on the planet and also in the US are muslim so if we all were terrorists then the world would be in trouble wouldnt you think? Me and several others (bruce Wayne etc....) represent mainstream islam on a daily basis 90% of the time against hostility and disrespect not from anyone trying to understand why i feel how i feel but telling me instead why how i feel is wrong. there are people on these forums who tell me that all my people(muslims) are murderers and terrorists and how we all need to be "delt with"(we know what that means) People tell me that "my kind" is not wanted by "their kind" sounding exactly like how slavemasters treated slave" back in the day" yet islam has taught me that i am an ambasador for my religion so that i shouldnt "fulfill sterotypes" and lower myself to disrespectful levels........peace unto you




ever hear of this? hmmmmmm why not?


http://www.thememoryhole.org/terror/tyler-terror.htm

Look surrenderer I respect you, you seem like an intelligent level headed guy. Please don't start playing the scapegoat game jihad is not seen as warlike because of 9/11 that is just silly. To say that you need to ignore 1200 years of islamic history. Europe was under assault by islam from the late 7th century until the second failed ottoman seige of vienna in the late 15th century so jihad has a well known history in europe more than a millenia before 9/11. The last declared military jihad was in 1889 when the afghans declared jihad aginst the non-muslims of the hindu kush. It is a historical fact, your peaceful understanding of the meaning of jihad is all well and good and duly noted but don't start claiming others understanding of jihad is the fault of the media in the west that is just false.

PS. peace to you

 

[Bells]

No bells - You are wrong - Yet again.

I have had enough of you playing the racist card.


JEWISH BNP CANDIDATE WINS SEAT IN ESSEX

BNP Candidate Patricia Richardson, Jewish London housewife, won a council seat in Essex for the far right British National Party.

Her father, Abraham, had emigrated with his parents from Transylvania around the turn of the century, when he was just 13. And her mother, Fay Groner, though born in London's East End, had seven brothers and sisters and was of direct Lithuanian descent.

http://www.somethingjewish.co.uk/articles/1009_bnp_jewish_win.htm

Ah Vienna. I take it you failed to read their online membership page? Here's a refresher...

Membership of the British National Party is open to those of British or kindred European ethnic descent. While we welcome contact and co-operation with nationalists and patriots of other races, and with the many non-whites who also oppose enforced multi-racialism, we ask them to respect our right to an organisation of our own, for our own, as we respect and applaud their measures to organise themselves in like fashion.
Link

Hmm... hardly says hey if you're not of British or European descent, come on in and join now does it? Instead it says that they only want members of ARE of British and European ethnic descent. So therefore, if someone were of Asian descent, well forget it. If they were of African descent... again keep on walking. But how nice that they do encourage anyone who's not white to go and start up their own party.

And as for your little example of how good they are that the let a Jew run as a candidate. Remember that the Jewish member was from Transylvania... which is part of Europe.

I don't need to play the 'racist card' Vienna. Your favourite party does it all on its very own.

 

[invert_nexus]

Surrenderer,

I've posed this question to other's in the past, but none have been as willing to speak openly as you have shown to be. Perhaps you would answer. You say that not translating the Qu'ran is because of the difficulty and error involved in differing languages. This sounds reasonable to me. You say that if people want to study the Qu'ran then they should learn Arabic in order to do so. This too sounds reasonable. But isn't it a fact that in many instances it's not study of the Qu'ran that is desired? It's memorization of the sounds that it makes. Even if someone can't understand Arabic, they are expected to learn the Qu'ran (well, not expected, but encouraged) word for word? There are children around the world going to "school" day after day memorizing a book they don't even understand. They merely repeat sounds that are heard. They ingrain these sounds into their brain and feel that they are benefitting themselves by doing so. Wouldn't they be better off utilizing this frankly amazing ability for more useful purposes? Math, philosophy, software languages... This is a great amount of brain power going to waste, IMO. Is Islam growing so fast that it cannot fully adapt to the various cultures which it is encompassing? Should they not be allowed to study the Qu'ran in their own language with appropriate cross-referencing and notes to allow them to understand the original intent? It would be difficult, but not impossible. And with the devotion these children show, it might be simple.

 

[Vienna]

Ah Vienna. I take it you failed to read their online membership page? Here's a refresher...

Ha ha ha, I just love it when you squirm.

You are playing the racist card again, my, my, it's getting dogeared and tattered.

We live in a Democracy here, something new to Islam so I can forgive you as a muslim for not grasping it.

So pray tell me oh wise one, why is protecting the British ethnic identity and its heritage so offensive to you?



And just for you Bells... Some more from the BNP site...

BNP stance on IMMIGRATION - time to say NO!

On current demographic trends, we, the native British people, will be an ethnic minority in our own country within sixty years. To ensure that this does not happen, and that the British people retain their homeland and identity, we call for an immediate halt to all further immigration, the immediate deportation of criminal and illegal immigrants, and the introduction of a system of voluntary resettlement whereby those immigrants who are legally here will be afforded the opportunity to return to their lands of ethnic origin assisted by a generous financial incentives both for individuals and for the countries in question. We will abolish the ‘positive discrimination’ schemes that have made white Britons second-class citizens. We will also clamp down on the flood of ‘asylum seekers’, all of whom are either bogus or can find refuge much nearer their home countries.

---------------

The BNP rocks.

 

[Vienna]

.Islam teaches that if you want to read the Koran then learn Arabic

surenderer - If there was such a thing as God/Allah he would have created a book which could be understood by all of mankind. It would be written in all languages, for all to read, all over the world.

 

[Bells]

So pray tell me oh wise one, why is protecting the British ethnic identity and its heritage so offensive to you?

I just adore the BNP site. Always good for a chuckle. I love the way they can say that they will only allow people who are either ethnic Brits or ethnic Europeans to become members... hell you can even be from overseas (not even a Brit) and join from the looks of that membership form, unless of course you have to be an expatriot or an expatriot of European descent living over seas.. the form does not appear to be very clear on that matter...

But then, as you so rightly pointed out, they come out with this for their immigration policy:

On current demographic trends, we, the native British people, will be an ethnic minority in our own country within sixty years. To ensure that this does not happen, and that the British people retain their homeland and identity, we call for an immediate halt to all further immigration, the immediate deportation of criminal and illegal immigrants, and the introduction of a system of voluntary resettlement whereby those immigrants who are legally here will be afforded the opportunity to return to their lands of ethnic origin assisted by a generous financial incentives both for individuals and for the countries in question. We will abolish the ‘positive discrimination’ schemes that have made white Britons second-class citizens. We will also clamp down on the flood of ‘asylum seekers’, all of whom are either bogus or can find refuge much nearer their home countries.

Now does anyone here spot the hypocrisy?

Here you are Vienna, striving for the British ethnic rights, and I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with that, because there really is not. And in fighting for the ethnic Brit, you support the BNP, who wish to stop immigration to save the native British people. All well and good. Send them all back says the BNP. So therefore, by their immigration policy, ALL migrants are to be repatriated to their native lands with a 'generous financial incentive both for individuals and or the countries in question' (where would the money come from by the way, on a side note?). In ALL migrants being kicked out of the UK, one would assume that the European migrants would also be joining the exodus from your fair shores. After all, if the BNP believe in a zero immigration policy, that would also include European migrants as well wouldn't it? But here comes the little thing that amuses me. In their rantings of pushing for a zero immigration policy and for kicking ALL the migrants out, they allow migrants to become members of the party...

Membership of the British National Party is open to those of British or kindred European ethnic descent.

By your own admission Vienna, they even allowed the child of MIGRANTS to join the ranks and that individual won a seat for them...

Her father, Abraham, had emigrated with his parents from Transylvania around the turn of the century, when he was just 13. And her mother, Fay Groner, though born in London's East End, had seven brothers and sisters and was of direct Lithuanian descent.

Now do you think good old Patricia's family would be kicked out of the UK to preserve that the true British ethnicity? After all, it is their ultimate goal to kick out ALL migrants from the UK. It's on their website as you so rightly pointed out. Or will they just make an exception in her case?

Now please tell me, how is it that they can say that they wish to get rid of all migrants and send them on home, but they allow white migrants to join their party? Let me just remind you of something Vienna...

From what you posted on their immigration policy:

To ensure that this does not happen, and that the British people retain their homeland and identity, we call for an immediate halt to all further immigration, the immediate deportation of criminal and illegal immigrants, and the introduction of a system of voluntary resettlement whereby those immigrants who are legally here will be afforded the opportunity to return to their lands of ethnic origin assisted by a generous financial incentives both for individuals and for the countries in question.

And from their membership site:

Membership of the British National Party is open to those of British or kindred European ethnic descent.

So tell me something Vienna, will those 'kindred European ethnic' people get a refund from the BNP if they become members and are then kicked out for being migrants? Maybe it's time you contacted the BNP and advised them that their policy and membership form aren't compatible.

Unless of course, by migrants, the BNP mean anyone with any slight tinge of colour to their skin? Then of course it would make sense that the European migrants can say... because they are 'kindred' peoples after all... migrants.. but still 'kindred'..

 

[surenderer]

Surrenderer,

I've posed this question to other's in the past, but none have been as willing to speak openly as you have shown to be. Perhaps you would answer. You say that not translating the Qu'ran is because of the difficulty and error involved in differing languages. This sounds reasonable to me. You say that if people want to study the Qu'ran then they should learn Arabic in order to do so. This too sounds reasonable. But isn't it a fact that in many instances it's not study of the Qu'ran that is desired? It's memorization of the sounds that it makes. Even if someone can't understand Arabic, they are expected to learn the Qu'ran (well, not expected, but encouraged) word for word? There are children around the world going to "school" day after day memorizing a book they don't even understand. They merely repeat sounds that are heard. They ingrain these sounds into their brain and feel that they are benefitting themselves by doing so. Wouldn't they be better off utilizing this frankly amazing ability for more useful purposes? Math, philosophy, software languages... This is a great amount of brain power going to waste, IMO. Is Islam growing so fast that it cannot fully adapt to the various cultures which it is encompassing? Should they not be allowed to study the Qu'ran in their own language with appropriate cross-referencing and notes to allow them to understand the original intent? It would be difficult, but not impossible. And with the devotion these children show, it might be simple.

Well i dont really know how to answer that because i only know that i study Arabic so that i can know how the revelations were passed down without having to worry abput someone translating it for me(its also kewl to learn another language ) if people are learning only sounds then i agree that is a waste of time ....peace

 

[surenderer]

how many new converts keep their birth names? what's wrong with these names? what is Jose Padilla's new name? how about that Lindh dude? what about Cat Stevens? what's your name hmmm? could it be "George Smith"? what do you call that? I call it cultural imperialism, plain & simple!


You have to learn arabic to make a true judgement on the quran? your 'fate' rests on your 'faith' that an arabic tribal god is the god of the universe? he sounds 'tartamudo' to me, allah studders or has an accent in other languages?

your allah god should have used a better language then to send down the quran, so that it could be translated easily to the 'masses', is that to hard for the so-called god of the Universe to do? I think it should have been Mexican spanish; now there's a sweet, to the point, poetic, funny, sad, lamenting, crying, joyful, hilarious, humorous, angry, easy to learn & understand language, a perfect language for any god, especially a god bent on world domination, can you say, "tirano, dictador, general, jefe"?

Well people change their names(oh and i still have my american name Jay) because in other cultures peoples name mean something like Muhammd ib Tawid(Muhamaad son of Tawid) or they change their names to honor someone but that is a personal choice their is nowhere in the Koran that obligates someone to change their names. What better language should he have used....English? whats wrong with arabic? its the sister language of that which Jesus (saws)spoke (arameic)....peace

 

[Vienna]

Lol...Bells - You are putting words that aren't there, and you sound ridiculous.

If you have any questions with regard to the BNP just email them....


You have still not answered my question

Do you find it offensive that the native British people want to protect the British ethnic identity and its heritage?

Is it offensive to you - yes / no and why????

 

[surenderer]

Look surrenderer I respect you, you seem like an intelligent level headed guy. Please don't start playing the scapegoat game jihad is not seen as warlike because of 9/11 that is just silly. To say that you need to ignore 1200 years of islamic history. Europe was under assault by islam from the late 7th century until the second failed ottoman seige of vienna in the late 15th century so jihad has a well known history in europe more than a millenia before 9/11. The last declared military jihad was in 1889 when the afghans declared jihad aginst the non-muslims of the hindu kush. It is a historical fact, your peaceful understanding of the meaning of jihad is all well and good and duly noted but don't start claiming others understanding of jihad is the fault of the media in the west that is just false.

PS. peace to you

I respect you also but you also seem to have a biased view towards history....to say that islam has been assulting the west for 1200 years is ridiculous at best it could be seen as a two-sided affair remember the crusades were started against the muslims to capture Jersuelm the Popes in those days were war-mongers(although i admit so were alot of the muslims) you cant point to a single post i have ever made that has defended every action intiatated by muslims beacuse i do believe that we are the victims of alot of our pasts bad actions but the reason i am a muslim is not because of what others have done claiming to be muslims but because of what islam has taught me what to do.Please gimmie a break with this"the Shy is Falling" type thinking about all muslims wanting Jihad against the west. It is a fact that(if you want to admit it or not) that American State Sponsered terrorism is the cause of alot of problems between Islam and the West as a matter of fact most of the west doesnt even see terrorism when asked who was the biggest danger in the world to peace was it islam?.....nope

http://g.msn.com/9SE/1?http://time....87e66e448f497b727697423841e&POS=1&CM=WPU&CE=1


Those aint muslims saying that friend....thats the world so dont hate me for saying it.....peace

 

[Vienna]

The biggest danger to world peace is ISLAM. - FACT!

 

[surenderer]

The biggest danger to world peace is ISLAM. - FACT!

did you check my link? the world thinks different.....peace

 

[Bells]

Why do you find it offensive that the native British people want to protect the British ethnic identity and its heritage?

Why is that so offensive to you????

I did answer that question. I said that there's nothing wrong with anyone wanting to protect their ethnic identity and heritage...

Here you are Vienna, striving for the British ethnic rights, and I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with that, because there really is not.

What I dislike is the way that it is implemented. The BNP implement it in a manner that is so hypocritical that it's amusing. Frankly Vienna, I rather someone comeout and just be racist, rather than go about it in a round about way. At least then one knows where one stands. I don't have a problem with a zero immigration policy. On the contrary, there are times when I think such a policy should be implemented every once in a while to protect the job market and the economy (for example, if there is high unemployment and the economy is going down the gurgler, then immigration should be cut right back until it begins to pick up again)... but I don't think such a policy should be permanent because immigration is essential in many respects and for many reasons. And I'm a migrant.. go figure.

But for me, when I see a party like the BNP, advocating zero immigration, but then allowing white migrants to join... that for me reeks of hypocrisy. It's as though they are posting a false message. They're quite happy taking money from ethnic European migrants to become members of their party, but they don't want them in the country. The BNP aren't just seeking a closing of the borders, they are also seeking the repatriation of millions of people. Now that is bad Vienna. That is what I find to be racist. To kick someone out because they are not ethnically British is racist. Just think of the millions of people who will be asked to leave? I just keep getting the image of the Nazis kicking out the Jews. And frankly Vienna, it's a scary thought.

Just think of the British economy if millions of people were asked to leave? Think of who would have to fill in all those vacant positions. Imagine the hospital staff shortages as an example. Imagine how much it would cost the State to compensate those asked to leave (after all, their website states that they will recompense the repatriated and the country they are going back to). But even with all of that aside. The racism of asking migrants to leave so that the UK can go back to being ethnically clean... that's just nasty Vienna. Real nasty.

 

[Bells]

Lol...Bells - You are putting words that aren't there, and you sound ridiculous.

No Vienna. I was only quoting from the BNP website and from you. Read through those links yourself. Read the membership sign up page and see. And then read what you posted in here about their immigration policy.

 

[Vienna]

did you check my link? the world thinks different.....peace

Yeah, I saw it - and I random check on Terrorism in the world today - TODAYS NEWS.

And guess what - its all linked to Islamic Terrorism

And guess what will be in tomorrows news, and the day after that - Yep, it will be ISLAMIC TERRORISM

Terrorism Suspect Vowed to Kill Americans in Taped Interview

IRAQ PULL-OUT ENCOURAGES LOCAL TERRORISM

Saudi Arabia Citing Threat of Terrorism



You don't fool me surenderer - Islam has made its bed of nails, now it must lay on it.

 

[Bells]

The biggest danger to world peace is ISLAM. - FACT!

And here I thought it was George Bush, Tony Blair and John Howard.

 

[Vienna]

And here I thought it was George Bush, Tony Blair and John Howard.

I was against the war on Iraq - It just gave the muslims another excuse to attack the west.