Is consciousness to be found in quantum processes in microtubules?

[Write4U]

You mean everyone else's post trying to tell you to stay on topic?
There's a certain irony there.

Yes indeed, as moderator you should know that if you want to address me personally, you can send me an IM.

To voice your public objections to a thread with 1200+ posts and and 17000+ public views is disruptive and destructive of any positive influence this thread has offered to an obviously interested public.

*Yawn*

No, not yawn. Contribute or you shut up, OK?[/quote] YOU WON'T LET ME!

This old thing again? Really, this is a running theme with you. When people challenge you, you accuse them of being like Trump, rinse and repeat.

Ohhh, nooooo, your posts are fresh and delightfully interesting?
That's what Trump thinks of himself too. "Very few people know about these tidbits of common knowledge.

Aren't we impressed?

I'll be blunt. Shut up. Stay on topic.

Follow your own advice.

Stop trying to change the subject.

This is off topic even as you have conveniently cloaked it as a response to my post on microtubules. So please stay on topic, so that I don't need to address two unrelated posts.

For example, I link you a study about paramecium's and how disrupting microtubules had no affect on their ability to retain or process information and you respond by basically giving me a biology lesson about paramecium's instead of addressing the subject of the role of microbutules in retaining information or even being able to process information [and how disruption had no effect whatsoever in paramecium's] - which is essential for the very notion of consciousness...

I answered your post with the observation that paramecium does not have a brain and therefore no long term memory. The study has no informative value at all, other than the short term cellular memory, which I have posted on in detail elsewhere in this thread.

Moreover I posted abundant information on studies of the role microtubules play in long term memory.

Now you come along and show me a quote of a paper which makes a claim, just as my links to some 100 papers make claims to the contrary. Your links are no more authoritative than my links and if you think they are, it is you who is prejudiced and myopic. What makes you think your sources are "better" than my sources?

The problem is not what I post, the problem is that you don't read what I post and have no clue about the current state of research in the incredible role microtubules play in the processing of sensory information.

The post you quoted is useless in context of microtubules being the seat of consciousness in the brain.

This is why we get so many reports about your off topic posts and essentially evangelising about your obsession.

That does not follow at all. There are not many reports about me being off topic at all.
Except for an endless stream of redundant bile spouting from your "high intellectual perch".

During my time in Sciforums , I have garnered some 1200+ likes, which demonstrates that there are a few people who seem to agree with my posts. I am not aware of any other complaints from anyone else, except from you three.

This is a manufactured problem by you and two others, and there would not be a problem at all if it were not for you three who have made it a mission in life to shut down this "interloper" who dares to post on new and exciting research in an earnest effort to garner knowledge of the "hard problem" of consciousness.

This kind of attitude is highly prejudicial and unbecoming a friendly gathering to discuss the latest developments in science. You three are insufferable bores and I'm sick of having to deal with you at the same time that I have excellent and interesting discussions with other posters who apparently have absolutely no objections to my posts.

YOU ARE PRACTISING PREJUDICIAL CENSORSHIP, BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE MY STYLE ?? GROW UP!

I know you won't stop until you have manufactured a reason to shut this thread down. It is becoming too popular. Can't have that. Science is not a popular pastime, it is a serious endeavor and this is a serious science forum. Must maintain dignity.

Yes by slinging ad hominems at posters who make a good faith effort to post interesting new science.

 

[Write4U]

Beside the point. Disrupting microtubules had no effect.
That is the point.

Which of the microtubules did they disrupt? All of them and still the subject displayed memory? Must have been in the "cilia", right?

What kind of memories does a paramecium store? How do you measure memory in a paramecium? If you can enlighten me in that, it would be very informative.

Two Types of Cilia in a Paramecium

Paramecia are single-celled microorganisms that live in freshwater and marine environments. They belong to the phylum Ciliophora, the ciliated protozoa. A cilium is a short, hair-like structure that protrudes from an organism’s cell membrane. A paramecium has thousands of cilia that rhythmically beat, providing a way for it to move around and to sweep food into its oral groove. Scientists have discovered that different biochemical motors power the cilia function in the paramecium.

My Little Paramecium

Paramecia come in many species and range in length between 50 and 330 micrometers -- roughly one-thousandth to one-hundredth of an inch. The cell membrane, or pellicle, is covered throughout with cilia. Paramecia eat bacteria, algae and other tiny creatures by ingesting them via a cilia-covered oral groove that runs from the front of the cell to the midpoint. The paramecium swims around by beating its cilia in unison, but the cilia surrounding the oral groove beat to a different rhythm

Cilium Structure and Types of Cilia

The structure of a cilium is a bundle of microtubules, known as an axoneme, that is attached to a basal body on the cell surface. A microtubule is composed of about 13 protofilaments, long cylinders that align side by side to form the microtubule’s hollow tube shape. An axoneme contains nine outer pairs of double microtubules and two central singular microtubules. Various bridges connect the members of both microtubule arrays and connect the two arrays to each other. Proteins known as molecular motors cause cilia to beat.

https://sciencing.com/two-types-cilia-paramecium-18998.html
Apparently a paramecium has at least as many microtubules as it has cilia. The dynamic motor that drives each individual cilium.

But when it comes to microtubules, why not ask Hameroff what causes loss of conscious memory. He is the anesthesiologist and an expert on Alzheimer's disease of Memory loss, which is a result of the catastrophic collapse of microtubules in the brain!
Oh I forgot, he is a unscrupulous quack who is just trying to make a buck with woo science, right? Is it not your assertion that Hameroff is a quack?

Do you want to present other papers on topic, I'll be very happy to make an attempt to answer every question on the topic of possible emergent consciousness from the pervasive information processing network of neurons, all of which employ microtubules to transport electro-chemical information from the entire body to the brain, which processes this information both unconsciously (interoception) and consciously (perception), making the organism "consciously aware" of self, relative to the environment.

 

[DaveC426913]

I know you won't stop until you have manufactured a reason to shut this thread down.

And there's the other shoe dropping. You could see it coming a mile off.

It's been pretty apparent Write4U has been deliberately trolling this thread with nothing but complaints so that it pretty much has to be shut down.
And now he's busy manufacturing a "sour grapes" rationalization, so he can blame anybody but himself for this ridiculous thread going down in flames.
How transparent.

 

[Write4U]

W4U said; Life itself needs not necessarily be consciously intelligent. There are many examples of non-sentient non-living dynamical (quasi-living) patterns, such as viruses, which function with great mathematical precision, as ordered by the mathematical essence of spacetime acting on the interchange of relative "values" and mathematical "functions".

What does any of this have to do with microtubules?

Microtubules are biological mathematical processors of electro-chemical information which constitutes the organisms' level as a sentient, living biological pattern.

These side-topics are often related to the OP topic in a tangently related way and connected to the "hard problem" of consciousness.
If this subject cannot be discussed in its broadest form, how can any "in-depth" understanding and meaning of "consciousness" ever be reached?

Please try to contribute positively, instead of negative derision and accusations, it's not productive.

 

[Write4U]

And there's the other shoe dropping. You could see it coming a mile off.

It's been pretty apparent Write4U has been deliberately trolling this thread with nothing but complaints so that it pretty much has to be shut down.

And now he's busy manufacturing a "sour grapes" rationalization, so he can blame anybody but himself for this ridiculous thread going down in flames. How transparent.

Oh, this is precious!!! Almost unbelievable, but true!

Its takes guts to accuse someone of destroying his own result of many hours of research on the OP topic. I am defending it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You are a piece of work Dave. I did misjudge you.

 

[DaveC426913]

[DUPE]

 

[exchemist]

Yes indeed, as moderator you should know that if you want to address me personally, you can send me an IM.

To voice your public objections to a thread with 1200+ posts and and 17000+ public views is disruptive and destructive of any positive influence this thread has offered to an obviously interested public.
No, not yawn. Contribute or you shut up, OK? YOU WON'T LET ME! Ohhh, nooooo, your posts are fresh and delightfully interesting?
That's what Trump thinks of himself too. "Very few people know about these tidbits of common knowledge.

Aren't we impressed? Follow your own advice.
This is off topic even as you have conveniently cloaked it as a response to my post on microtubules. So please stay on topic, so that I don't need to address two unrelated posts. I answered your post with the observation that paramecium does not have a brain and therefore no long term memory. The study has no informative value at all, other than the short term cellular memory, which I have posted on in detail elsewhere in this thread.

Moreover I posted abundant information on studies of the role microtubules play in long term memory.

Now you come along and show me a quote of a paper which makes a claim, just as my links to some 100 papers make claims to the contrary. Your links are no more authoritative than my links and if you think they are, it is you who is prejudiced and myopic. What makes you think your sources are "better" than my sources?

The problem is not what I post, the problem is that you don't read what I post and have no clue about the current state of research in the incredible role microtubules play in the processing of sensory information.

The post you quoted is useless in context of microtubules being the seat of consciousness in the brain. That does not follow at all. There are not many reports about me being off topic at all.
Except for an endless stream of redundant bile spouting from your "high intellectual perch".

During my time in Sciforums , I have garnered some 1200+ likes, which demonstrates that there are a few people who seem to agree with my posts. I am not aware of any other complaints from anyone else, except from you three.

This is a manufactured problem by you and two others, and there would not be a problem at all if it were not for you three who have made it a mission in life to shut down this "interloper" who dares to post on new and exciting research in an earnest effort to garner knowledge of the "hard problem" of consciousness.

This kind of attitude is highly prejudicial and unbecoming a friendly gathering to discuss the latest developments in science. You three are insufferable bores and I'm sick of having to deal with you at the same time that I have excellent and interesting discussions with other posters who apparently have absolutely no objections to my posts.

YOU ARE PRACTISING PREJUDICIAL CENSORSHIP, BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE MY STYLE ?? GROW UP!

I know you won't stop until you have manufactured a reason to shut this thread down. It is becoming too popular. Can't have that. Science is not a popular pastime, it is a serious endeavor and this is a serious science forum. Must maintain dignity.

Yes by slinging ad hominems at posters who make a good faith effort to post interesting new science.

 

[Write4U]

There you go Dave , exchemist.....(shakes head). Click!

 

[DaveC426913]

Data analysis is fun and easy!


Of the 17,693 words Write4U posted in the past 179 posts of his own thread, 14.6% were actually about the topic (and more than 50% of that was straight cut-and-paste).

 

[Write4U]

@ bells

In furtherance of the paper re Paramecium, I came up with this, which might explain any misunderstandings.

Paramecium
Learning,

The question of whether Paramecia exhibit learning has been the object of a great deal of experimentation, yielding equivocal results. However, a study published in 2006 seems to show that Paramecium caudatum may be trained, through the application of a 6.5 volt electric current, to discriminate between brightness levels.[26] This experiment has been cited as a possible instance of cell memory, or epigenetic learning in organisms with no nervous system.[27] However, another study in 2017 suggested that the Paramecia can only learn to associate the bright side of its swimming medium to electric current and not the dark side.[28] The same study suggested a molecular mechanism for learning in the Paramecia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paramecium#Learning

What memory that would be controlled by microtubules are they talking about? Swimming?

 

[Write4U]

Microtubules only live for a few seconds to a few hours at most... They are, by definition if one would attribute memory or learning processes to them, short term. You made a claim about paramecium's which you now seem to be trying to walk back in a manner of sorts.. The study found that disrupting microtubules, the very ones you said can and I quote "propels itself by means of a chemical "motor" (an array of microtubules), and can learn to avoid obstacles, by (short-term) "memorizing" physical and kinetic forces" have absolutely no affect on the paramecium learning or "memorizing" or retaining any information.

If microtubules were involved in information processing and something like consciousness, then any disruption would affect the ability to retain information or learn at the very least. They found that it had no affect.

If you are talking about loss of memory and ability to learn as a result of Alzheimers disease, that test is totally inadequate for proving anything. Microtubule damage is responsible for Alzheimer's disease.
This is not the result of a test performed by laboratory technicians. The role of gradually failing microtubules in the onset and gradual procession of that terrible disease is well established over many years practical science.
Microtubule-Stabilizing Drugs for Alzheimer’s May Be Ineffective Due to Newly-Uncovered Role of Tau Protein
Posted on: July 3, 2018 in News | Life Science News
By: Sarah Hand, M.Sc

Could targeting an Alzheimer’s-associated protein prevent Autism?
AutismFeaturedGeneticsNeuroscience
March 2, 2020

Tau has never before been linked to autism, but it is known for its role in Alzheimer’s disease and other neurodegenerative conditions. The image is in the public domain.

Making the Leap from Alzheimer’s to Autism

These surprising findings stem from an investigation of links between Alzheimer’s disease and epilepsy. Originally, Mucke and colleagues showed that tau reduction prevents epileptic activity and cognitive deficits in mouse models of Alzheimer’s disease and of Dravet syndrome, a severe childhood epilepsy.

These findings intrigued Chao Tai, PhD, a scientist on Mucke’s team and first author of the new paper, who had previously studied Dravet syndrome at the University of Washington.
“We wondered whether tau reduction could also prevent the signs of autism that are often seen in people with Dravet syndrome,” Tai said.

Microtubules are part of the cell’s cytoskeleton which supports the cell and facilitates the movement of organelles throughout the cytoplasm. While tau normally plays a supportive role for these microtubules, in the brain of an Alzheimer’s patient, tau accumulates and forms neurofibrillary tubules which interfere with nutrient delivery to neurons and contributes to cell death.

https://neurosciencenews.com/autism-alzheimers-protein-15833/

p.s. the learning done in navigation by the paramecium is not real learning (and memorizing), but caused by the kinetic impact of collision, which reverses the mechanical "paddling" motion of the cilia. It has nothing to do with the chemistry or (directional) memory of the microtubule. It's a purely physical counter effect of a collision.

OTOH, if you stop the microtubular motor, the cilia will stop paddling. No ciliar memory of paddling of any kind in any direction without a microtubule.

 

[Write4U]

Bells said: ↑Microtubules only live for a few seconds to a few hours at most... They are, by definition if one would attribute memory or learning processes to them, short term.

Memory microtubules are not dynamic.

Cytoskeletal Signaling: Is Memory Encoded in Microtubule Lattices by CaMKII Phosphorylation?

Long-term memory requires genetic expression, protein synthesis, and delivery of new synaptic components. How are these changes guided on the molecular level?

The calcium-calmodulin dependent protein kinase II (CaMKII) has been heavily implicated in the strengthening of active neural connections. CaMKII interacts with various substrates including microtubules (MTs).

MTs maintain cellular structure, and facilitate cellular cargo transport, effectively controlling neural architecture. Memory formation requires reorientation of this network. Could CaMKII-MT interactions be the molecular level encoding required to orchestrate neural plasticity?

Using molecular modeling and electrostatic profiling, we show a precise matching between the spatial dimensions, geometry and electrostatics of CaMKII and MTs, and calculate the potential information capacity and bio-energetic parameters of such interactions. Results suggest signaling and encoding in MTs offers rapid, robust information processing with a large potential for memory storage, reflecting a general code for MT-based memory in neurons and other eukaryotic cells.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3297561/

All this has been posted earlier in this thread.....

 

[Write4U]

Continued.....

The memory trace is envisioned as a physical substrate—something substantive and concrete. As such, a viable neural correlate for memory is the reorganization of the cytoskeleton, especially a restructuring of those microtubules and actin filaments responsible for connecting structures in the cell body to synapses or axon terminals.

By changing these intra-neuronal cytoskeletal connections, synaptic strength might increase or decrease, the distribution of inputs might become skewed to favor activation of certain dendrites over others, or the release of neurotransmitters might be modified. A most exciting possibility is that the neuronal cytoskeleton possesses the capability to permanently encode information at a subcellular level. Such a proposal is consistent with several lines of experimental evidence.......more

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2791806/

 

[Write4U]

In furtherance of some seemingly off-topic posts, this may clarify the comprehensive scope of inquiry into the "hard problem" of consciousness. These posts are informational only and do not necessarily reflect my endorsement or critique.
I'll leave it to others to form a personal opinion of this "interesting" proposition.

Code: A Hydrodynamic Superfluid Quantum Space Guides a Conformal Mental Attribute of Reality. The Hard Problem in Consciousness Studies Revisited

Abstract
This review article submits an integral concept of information processing in the universe on the basis of a generalized musical (GM)-scale of discrete EMF frequencies. Meta-analyses of current biophyisical literature revealed the effects of similar EMF frequency patterns in a wide range of animate and non-animate systems. This provided a novel conceptual bridge between living and non-living systems, being of relevance for the areas of biophysics, brain research, as well as for mechanisms of biological evolution.

As to the latter aspect, the potential role of phyllosilicates (clay materials) in the generation of a primordial biofield is treated and seen as instrumental in a partially guided creation of first life. We hold, in general, that nature is guided by a discrete pattern of harmonic solitonic waves, likely originating from quantum vacuum fluctuations derived from an immanent zero-point energy (ZPE)/superfluid quantum space.

Since the whole human organism, including brain is embedded in this dynamic energy field, a comprehensive model for human (self)-consciousness could be conceived. Evidence is presented for a pilot wave guided supervenience of brain function that may arise from a holofractal memory workspace, associated with, but not reducible to the brain, that operates as a scale-invariant mental attribute of reality.

This, field-receptive, workspace integrates past and (anticipated) future events and may explain overall ultra-rapid brain responses as well as the origin of qualia. Information processing in the brain is shown to be largely facilitated by propagation of hydronium (proton/water) ions in aqueous compartments. The hydronium ions move freely within a hexagonally organized H2O lattice, providing a superconductive integral brain antenna for receiving solitonic wave information.

A nonlinear Schrödinger equation describes the quantum aspects of the transfer of wave information mediated by H+ and Ca2+ ion flux over long distances at cerebrospinal, inter-neuronal and gap junction spaces. The latter processes enable ultra-rapid soliton/biophoton fluxes that may orchestrate overall brain binding and the creation of coherent conscious states.

In a cosmological context, we envision a scale invariant information processing, operating through a toroidal/wormhole mediated information flux. Our concept touches upon the earlier postulated hard problem in consciousness studies. ....more

https://www.researchgate.net/public...Hard_Problem_in_Consciousness_Studies_Revisit

 

[Write4U]

An a tangently related example of the pervasive presence of microtubules in all forms of dynamic behavior in Eukaryotic organisms.

Have you heard of a herd of moving moss balls?

Glacier mice in Breiðamerkurjökull, an outlet glacier in Iceland, in 2005.Ruth Mottram

Balls of moss move like a flock
Squishy pillows of moss appear to slowly move across glaciers in a coordinated fashion, researchers have found. In a long-term study in Alaska, researchers tagged the rolling ‘glacier mice’ to monitor their motion. The herd seems to move in unison, at a speed of about 2.5 centimetres per day. Their motion didn’t align with the prevailing winds, and they weren’t rolling down a slope — so what propels them is still a mystery. “It's very hard not to think of tribbles from Star Trek,” says climate scientist Ruth Mottram. The team hopes to track glacier mice that were tagged a decade ago to see how they have moved over a longer period.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01580-6

If I may hazard a guess, the "fuzz" of glacier mice are evolved "cilia".

Cilia,
What is the function of the cilia?

'Motile' (or moving) cilia are found in the lungs, respiratory tract and middle ear. These cilia have a rhythmic waving or beating motion. They work, for instance, to keep the airways clear of mucus and dirt, allowing us to breathe easily and without irritation. They also help propel sperm.

Cilia - the Ciliopathy Alliance!

But cilia also propel single cell Paramecium and many other single celled bacteria The motors that drive cilia are microtubules, a self-assembling dynamic biological motor.

Because microtubules are computers which function identically for a large variety of MT functions, their quorum function is very predictable, not just for one individual, but for all related individuals in the hive structure.

Another MT function is "pseudopodia", where sets of microtubules generate a sliding effect in a very coordinated manner, which allows the organism to slide its way forward and backward at will.

Beautiful examples can be found in the pseudopod "slime mold", a single multi nuclei hive organism.

https://www.britannica.com/science/pseudopodial-locomotion

and caterpillars and snakes, which have a highly evolved a special modes of pseudopodia.

In pedal locomotion, which is a slow, continuous gliding that is superficially indistinguishable from ciliary locomotion, propulsion along the bottom is generated by the passage of contraction waves through the ventral musculature, which is in contact with the bottom surface.

The pedal contraction waves are either direct (in the same direction as the movement) or retrograde (in the direction opposite to the movement). The direct waves produce locomotion in a manner analogous to that in which a caterpillar walks. When a direct wave reaches a muscle, the muscle contracts and lifts a small part of the body; the body is carried forward and set down anterior to its original position as the wave passes. With direct waves, the surfaces of the body touching the bottom surface are not the ones that contract; with retrograde waves, however, these are the surfaces that do contract. As the retrograde wave approaches, the body area immediately adjacent to it is extended upward. The body surface within the contraction area then anchors itself to the bottom surface, after which the body is pulled forward.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/locomotion/Bottom-locomotion

The interesting part is that all these modes of movement are driven by MT motor functions.

I think a strong case can be made that MT are the propulsion motor of glacier mice (moss balls) in a quorum coordinated movement, without the need for conscious motor skills. All the moss balls in the herd react the same way to shared causal information much as hive insects behave via "quorum sensing"​

 

[Write4U]

In furterance of motion via Microtubular action (posted previously)

Ciliary and Flagellar Motion

One might appreciate the complexity of microtubular organelles by looking at the motion of cilia and flagella. Despite the similarities in structure, the difference in nature of motility by flagella versus cilia is profound, as one can see by comparing representatives of the groups Ciliophora (the ciliates) and Mastigophora (the flagellates). Ciliates and flagellates behave differently, live in different habitats and occupy different niches, and likely represent two different evolutionary lineages. The main difference in function is in how they are organized.

Flagella are much longer than cilia and are usually present singly or in pairs. A single flagellum may propel the cell with a whip-like motion. A pair of flagella may move in a synchronized manner to pull the organism through the water, in a way similar to the breast stroke of a human swimmer.

Cilia tend to cover the surface area of a cell. Both cilia and flagella bend as the microtubules slide past one another. The arrangement of cilia permits their coordinated movement in response to signals from the cytoplasm. A small ciliate may have hundreds of individual cilia, all beating in a coordinated manner. How is all of the sliding and bending coordinated? How does the organism "decide" in what direction to move, or how to turn, rotate, or feed? How does it convey the information to hundreds of cilia to bend in a certain way? Questions of that nature are fascinating to cell biologists. They are very difficult to address, because each system is so complex. Nevertheless, with a genome about a hundred times smaller than that of a human, a typical protist is much easier to study than a human cell.

The motion of an individual cilium or flagellum superficially resembles that of an oar, in that it sweeps through the medium with a power stroke that propels the cell. Each power stroke and return stroke involves perhaps thousands of chemical reactions. There may be dozens of strokes per second, and one action may involve thousands of cilia. You may notice that ciliates respond very quickly to obstacles or changes in their environment.

It is fascinating to speculate on just how they receive information, process it, and deliver the signals to the cilia to produce precise movement. From the perspective of our relatively slow world, it is also difficult to comprehend how so much can go on in such a short time. Think of the effect on your perception of the universe if you were to shrink by several orders of magnitude.

https://www.ruf.rice.edu/~bioslabs/studies/invertebrates/microtubules.html

 

[Bells]

Who are you talking to?

And what does any of this have to do with consciousness and microtubules?

 

[Write4U]

Who are you talking to?

Anyone who may be interested in the subject of microtubules and the remarkable informational processing properties and abilities of MT, which might suggest an active MT involvement in the higher brain functions.

And what does any of this have to do with consciousness and microtubules?

This thread is based on on-going research and the question of microtubular involvement in consciousness in general and quantum consciousness in specific.

The intent is to introduce research into the various areas of MT functions and how they demonstrably form networks for information transportation. What better candidate than microtubules for studying the neural processes than that provided by the microtubule network inside the neural network, affording the ability to transport a wide range of information necessary for conscious awareness of self and the environment and making up the network required for information processing throughout the entire body (in every cell) of many kinds and being present in numbers ranging into the trillions !

Translation; trillions of bits of information.

This thread is intended as a background library on which to base the proposition that MT are instrumental in the emergent phenomenon of consciousness at various levels of expression and utilities in general, and the possible mechanism that MT employ to form "memory" and "recall".

All informative contributions are welcome, even if they argue against the proposition. I am no idealist, I am a open-minded realist.

The incredible phenomenon of the self-assembling microtubule and its incredible ability for processing extremely sophisticated bits and streams of information, has intrigued me to the exclusion of all other human biology. Just look at the mathematical order this nanoscale processor displays. Its is tantamount to a naturally evolved biological information computing processor and its sheer overwhelming presence in the brain and the body and the amounts of control and transportation of informational data that result in our conscious self-awareness and relationship with the environment.

There is simply nothing biological that can compete with the microtubule as the prime candidate for a biological informational scaffold and for being instrumental in the emergence of conscious awareness in the brain based on the data "input" provided by the microtubules (synapses). Perhaps there may be other factors involved. I wanna know!

I want to know EVERYTHING about microtubules. Can't hurt, can it?

I believe that I adequately explained this several times. Perhaps I was not clear enough.... (sigh).[/quote]

 

[Bells]

That's nice..

So what do moss balls have to do with microtubules and consciousness, quantum or otherwise?

This thread is intended as a background library on which to base the proposition that MT are instrumental in the emergent phenomenon of consciousness at various levels of expression and utilities in general, and the possible mechanism that MT employ to form "memory" and "recall".

Library?

This is a science forum. Not your personal blog.

You have not based anything on diddly squat. You have, 62 pages in, not proven or shown microtubules as anything connected to memory and recall. You are literally just posting random crap now.

You are making guesses and carrying on as though it is fact.

So I will ask again, what do moss balls have to do with consciousness and microtubules?

 

[exchemist]

Who are you talking to?

And what does any of this have to do with consciousness and microtubules?

What's for sure is none of it has anything to do with the original subject of the thread, namely Hameroff's hypothesis that "quantum processes" taking place within microtubules play a role in consciousness.

I wonder if we can take the heat out of this by renaming the thread "Write4U's Microtubule Thread". Then he can post all the material he wants to about microtubules, whether on slime moulds, Alzheimer's, ciliary motors, mitotic spindles or whatever, without attracting either criticism or interest from anyone else.