Is consciousness to be found in quantum processes in microtubules?

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The real absurdity here is that you rather pursue off topic subjects and whine about off-topic post, than address a study about microtubules that I linked in my previous post, which shows that your claims about microtubules are wrong..
I AM NOT THE ONE WHINING ABOUT OFF-TOPIC POSTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU ARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If did not have to defend myself against false accusations I would have time to engage in productive discussion.
So, if you want me to respond to your posts in a serious manner, treat me with the same respect I afford other posters, regardless if I agree with them on the science.

If you think I am going to be your whipping boy, you have a surprise coming. My behavior on this forum is impeccable in form and civility. No one can accuse me of bad behavior.
The behavior of several other individuals on this forum is stunningly rude and uncivilized and unwarranted.

I'll check out the link and decide whether it is worth responding to, OK? You seem to have plenty time for insults and false accusations my person, I'm sure you have enough time to wait for my response......:)
 
What does any of this have to do with microtubules?
Not much, but this post was a response to someone else's post. IT IS THEIR POST WHICH IS OFF-TOPIC, CAUSING THE RESPONSE TO BE OFF-TOPIC.

Just as this post is off-topic, because it is in response to your off-topic post. How long do you want to stay on this useless merry-go-round.

WHY DO YOU NOT GET ON RIVER'S CASE FOR STRAYING OFF TOPIC, INSTEAD OF HOLDING ME RESPONSIBLE FOR POSTING OFF-TOPIC SUBJECTS.

DO YOU SEE YOUR PERSISTENT PREJUDICIAL BEHAVIOR?
 
Not much, but this post was a response to someone else's post. IT IS THEIR POST WHICH IS OFF-TOPIC, CAUSING THE RESPONSE TO BE OFF-TOPIC.

Just as this post is off-topic, because it is in response to your off-topic post. How long do you want to stay on this useless merry-go-round.

WHY DO YOU NOT GET ON RIVER'S CASE FOR STRAYING OFF TOPIC, INSTEAD OF HOLDING ME RESPONSIBLE FOR POSTING OFF-TOPIC SUBJECTS.

DO YOU SEE YOUR PERSISTENT PREJUDICIAL BEHAVIOR?



Write4U , I will no longer post any responses .
 
Write4U , I will no longer post any responses .
Lest you incur Dave's wrath? No need to do so on my account.
Note that the post #1202 was not addressed to you but to Dave in context of his spurious accusations.

Too bad, I enjoyed our exchanges and never complained about your off-topic postings. All that was Dave's (and apparently a few others') initiative. I guess Dave just won his petty little war on proper posting behavior with you. They are very good at stifling free-flowing conversation, even when placed in the appropriate non-formal sub-forum.

I can just see the smug smiles....(shudders with disgust).
 
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I AM NOT THE ONE WHINING ABOUT OFF-TOPIC POSTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU ARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I wrote a mod note in direct response to you and your whining and ridiculous aggrandising and to remind you that this is not your personal blog. I also kept the note on topic.

You have deliberately chosen to ignore it to keep posting off topic.

As noted by James earlier:
It seems to be a mess of whatever has taken Write4U's fancy at this particular moment in time. Write4U seems fixated on a small number of themes, but he can't seem to compartmentalise them. They all bleed into each other, and he can't seem to stop himself trying to inject one or more of them into almost every thread he posts in.

So, stop posting crap.

If did not have to defend myself against false accusations I would have time to engage in productive discussion.
So, if you want me to respond to your posts in a serious manner, treat me with the same respect I afford other posters, regardless if I agree with them on the science.
You are respectful of others?

Do you think this post is respectful to me as a moderator? Do you think you are being respectful when you post in all upper caps to people who are trying to drag you back to this thread's subject matter?

What false accusations? That you haven't supported your claims? You literally have not. That you treat this like it is your blog? You do do that. That you post off topic crap? You do that as well.

This thread is not about you. So stick with the subject matter.

If you think I am going to be your whipping boy, you have a surprise coming. My behavior on this forum is impeccable in form and civility. No one can accuse me of bad behavior.
The behavior of several other individuals on this forum is stunningly rude and uncivilized and unwarranted.
2 staff and everyone participating in this discussion has advised you of your bad behaviour.

Because you cannot stay on topic and you post crap.

I'll check out the link and decide whether it is worth responding to, OK?
Nice attempt at dodging and this again shows your dishonesty.. The study shows directly that disrupting microtubules does not affect information retention or processing and learning.. Remember how you have claimed that disrupting microtubules can lead to catastrophic effects? This study shows that this is not the case at all.

So it begs the question.... Why are you doing everything you can to dodge it?

You seem to have plenty time for insults and false accusations my person, I'm sure you have enough time to wait for my response......:)
Is this because you rather focus on everything else off topic?

My points to you in that mod note remain. Stop trying to avoid staying on topic.
 
Is this because you rather focus on everything else off topic?
No I was focusing on everyone elses' off topic comments, which you seem to conveniently ignore.
My points to you in that mod note remain. Stop trying to avoid staying on topic.
If only you would let me.

Another post down the drain. You know that it is not I who is converting this into a Swamp.
Your attempts to drain the off-topic swamp is reminiscent of Trump's promise to drain the political swamp and then proceeded to turn everything into an outhouse.
 
Here's one for you:
Microtubule Disruption does not Impair Learning in the Unicellular Organism Paramecium: Implications for Information Processing in Microtubules
Here, we sought to test the hypothesis that microtubules are involved in memory encoding and information storage in a unicellular organism that exhibits learning. We disrupted the microtubular dynamics in the organism to see if microtubules are involved in information storage in paramecium. Our results suggested that while disrupting GABA receptor dynamics will impair paramecium learning, disruption of microtubular dynamics does not impair the learning behavior.
That proves nothing! The paramecium is not a brained organism. It is not capable of long term memory to begin with. It's obvious you have not watched Hameroff and where long term microtubular memory storage in brained organisms occurs.
552e6a729351c.jpg

https://phys.org/news/2015-04-quantum-criticality-life-proteins.html

Not all microtubules are capable of long term storage. The ones that are, are pyramidal structures located in the brain of brained organisms. The paramecium does not have a brain and does not have the pyramidal structures . It's memory is short term sensory chemical or mechanical kinetic responses, which is a product of touch by cilia, which are controlled and powered by microtubules.

Paramecium
Paramecia move with the assistance of small hairs called cilia that project from all sides of their bodies. The single-celled organisms use these hairs like oars, beating them against the water to move around in pursuit of food and to avoid predators. The movements are sometimes quite interesting to watch, as they are incredibly fast, considering their size. Almost any sample of still water will contain some paramecia. They are just visible with a magnifying glass, and sometimes with the naked eye, but can be seen in some detail with a microscope at around 100 X magnification.
Paramecium Movement
The way paramecia move is quite straightforward; usually, they will travel in a straight line until they bump into something and navigate around it. They may, however, change course to reach food, and it is believed that the creatures may have chemical sensors to alert them to potential sources of nutrition. Watching one move around large obstacles can remind people of navigating into small parking spaces, as it moves forward, backs up, turn, moves forward, and so forth until it in the clear again.
The cilia on a paramecium move in two directions. The creatures move forwards by beating their cilia at a backward angle, to thrust themselves through the water. To back up, they beat forwards. They also spin as they swim through the water, allowing them to collect food, which is pushed by the cilia into the mouth. A paramecium can look like a twirling top as it spirals through the water.
How Cilia Work
Many other single-celled organisms use cilia for propulsion, and some use a flagellum — a single, long, whip-like appendage. The two are quite similar in design, and operate in the same way. Although they appear to be just simple hairs, their structure is in fact quite complex.
A cilium consists of a hollow, flexible cylinder, made from nine pairs of tiny tubes known as microtubules. Another pair of microtubules runs through the center, connected to the surface by spokes. Each pair of microtubules has two protein molecules, known as dynein arms, attached to it at intervals along its length. These act like tiny motors, using adenosine triphosphate (ATP) as a source of energy. To achieve movement, they push in unison against the neighboring microtubule pair, causing it to bend in the desired direction.
This happens very quickly, and the combined action of these little motors causes the cilium as a whole to bend one way or the other, as required. Together, the coordinated action of many cilia can propel a paramecium at quite a speed, often making them difficult to observe clearly. The fine details of cilia cannot be seen with an ordinary microscope — their structure was revealed by examining cross sections using powerful electron microscopes. The study of cilia may help with the design of useful nanomachines?
https://www.wisegeek.com/how-do-paramecia-move.htm
 
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... free-flowing conversation, even when placed in the appropriate non-formal sub-forum.
It has not been very many posts since you got explicit direction of the Moderators:

E13. Appropriate supporting evidence or explanations should be posted together with any opinion, especially on contentious issues. Sciforums is not your personal blog, and should not be used to promote your unsupported opinions.

E15. Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence.



Please re-acquaint yourself with site rules.
 
It has not been very many posts since you got explicit direction of the Moderators:
E13. Appropriate supporting evidence or explanations should be posted together with any opinion, especially on contentious issues. Sciforums is not your personal blog, and should not be used to promote your unsupported opinions.
E15. Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence.

Please re-acquaint yourself with site rules.
Yet another off topic post, for absolutely no compelling reason.

Let me remind you that the OP title is "Is consciousness to be found in quantum processes in microtubules"?

btw. That is not an extraordinary claim on my part. Perhaps you did not notice the question mark.

The post was an invitation for discussion with persons interested in micro-tubules and their functions. Obviously you are not interested, so I wonder why you are even bothering to so rudely interfere with the content of my thread? Are you moderator, or are you assisting the moderators in the exercise of their power of censorship?
 
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That proves nothing! The paramecium is not a brained organism. It is not capable of long term memory to begin with. It's obvious you have not watched Hameroff and where long term microtubular memory storage in brained organisms occurs.
Beside the point.

Disrupting microtubules had no effect.

That is the point.

It's obvious you have not watched Hameroff and where long term microtubular memory storage in brained organisms occurs.
I read his claims. All of which are essentially based on his beliefs. He has yet to actually prove anything with viable studies and show actual results.

This study showed actual results.

Not all microtubules are capable of long term storage. The ones that are, are pyramidal structures located in the brain of brained organisms. The paramecium does not have a brain and does not have the pyramidal structures . It's memory is short term sensory chemical or mechanical kinetic responses, which is a product of touch by cilia, which are controlled and powered by microtubules.
What happens to cancer patients, brain cancer patients who are given large doses of inhibitors? Do they become vegetables? Are they still conscious after their treatment?

As a child of a parent who endured horrific treatment for a primary brain lymphoma, I can assure you, my mother was still conscious and her memory loss was not from the treatment, but from the apple sized tumour that had invaded the middle of her brain. She was treated with high doses of inhibitors and disruptors for over 6 months.

Let me remind you of something you said earlier:

The Paramecium, a "single celled" collection of biochemicals propels itself by means of a chemical "motor" (an array of microtubules), and can learn to avoid obstacles, by (short-term) "memorizing" physical and kinetic forces.

Microtubules only live for a few seconds to a few hours at most... They are, by definition if one would attribute memory or learning processes to them, short term. You made a claim about paramecium's which you now seem to be trying to walk back in a manner of sorts.. The study found that disrupting microtubules, the very ones you said can and I quote "propels itself by means of a chemical "motor" (an array of microtubules), and can learn to avoid obstacles, by (short-term) "memorizing" physical and kinetic forces" have absolutely no affect on the paramecium learning or "memorizing" or retaining any information.. If microtubules were involved in information processing and something like consciousness, then any disruption would affect the ability to retain information or learn at the very least. They found that it had no affect.

Whether it is a single celled collection of biochemicals or not, is actually beside the point.

And that is what you are now dodging so vapidly by trying to change the subject to paramecium's.

Disrupting the microtubules in paramecium's had no affect in their ability to retain information or learn and this has direct implications to your claims about microtubules and your claims that consciousness resides in microtubules..
 
No I was focusing on everyone elses' off topic comments, which you seem to conveniently ignore.
You mean everyone else's post trying to tell you to stay on topic?

There's a certain irony there.

If only you would let me.

Another post down the drain. You know that it is not I who is converting this into a Swamp.
Your attempts to drain the off-topic swamp is reminiscent of Trump's promise to drain the political swamp and then proceeded to turn everything into an outhouse.
*Yawn*

This old thing again?

Really, this is a running theme with you. When people challenge you, you accuse them of being like Trump, rinse and repeat.

I'll be blunt.

Shut up.

Stay on topic.

Stop trying to change the subject.

For example, I link you a study about paramecium's and how disrupting microtubules had no affect on their ability to retain or process information and you respond by basically giving me a biology lesson about paramecium's instead of addressing the subject of the role of microbutules in retaining information or even being able to process information [and how disruption had no effect whatsoever in paramecium's] - which is essential for the very notion of consciousness...

This is why we get so many reports about your off topic posts and essentially evangelising about your obsession.

Stay on topic.
 
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