Is consciousness to be found in quantum processes in microtubules?
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Write4U
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No, it doesn't it has no brain.
It doesn't need a brain. It's quasi-intelligent and that is sufficient for the evolutionary emergence of consciousness.
You give life a mystique that it doesn't deserve. On earth alone there have been trillions of living organisms of which 95 % are not extinct. But a new quasi-living organism is very much in the news lately as it seems able to kill humans even as we are a trillion time larger than the virus. But this little critters has learned to use the function of "living" cells to multiply and become the perfect deadly parasitic form of quasi-living patterns which rides on the backs of living cells.
As with consciousness, life is not mysterious any longer. Abiogenesis is an all but proven fact, and will be very soon, if it is up to Robert Hazen .....
Consciousness is in the same category. We are gathering the "hard facts", and some day we will "discover" or at least describe the answer to the "hard question". Nothing mystical is needed to account for everything the universe makes so abundantly physical and observable. But no know mystical properties of any kind.
No, it doesn't it has no brain.
It doesn't need a brain. It's quasi-intelligent and that is sufficient for the evolutionary emergence of consciousness.
You give life a mystique that it doesn't deserve. On earth alone there have been trillions of living organisms of which 95 % are not extinct. But a new quasi-living organism is very much in the news lately as it seems able to kill humans even as we are a trillion time larger than the virus. But this little critters has learned to use the function of "living" cells to multiply and become the perfect deadly parasitic form of quasi-living patterns which rides on the backs of living cells.
As with consciousness, life is not mysterious any longer. Abiogenesis is an all but proven fact, and will be very soon, if it is up to Robert Hazen .....
Consciousness is in the same category. We are gathering the "hard facts", and some day we will "discover" or at least describe the answer to the "hard question". Nothing mystical is needed to account for everything the universe makes so abundantly physical and observable. But no know mystical properties of any kind.
Disagree
Consciousness Thinks Upon .
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
In two distinct patterns, one pattern alive and dynamic, the other in a pattern which is static and not alive.
Asking for specific details is unnecessary and not productive. All organisms are expressions of billions of relative values interacting in accordance to a handful of mathematical functions.
This arrangement yields a near infinity of possible patterns alive or dead as evidenced by the near infinite patterns expressed in nature.
A perfect example is a fractal, a simple algorithm that produces the most astoundingly intricate patterns bordering on pure artistry performed by a quasi-intelligent function and is often found in the growth patterns of plants, which proves its pervasiveness and the realistic ability for abiogenesis to occur throughout the universe.
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So what comes first Write4U , the physical , as I think it does .
Or mathematics . As you think it does . Mathematics before the physical .
Lets discuss
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Mathematics is the language of physics and the other sciences.
Discussing science with you is futile due to your psychotic anti mainstream delusional qualities.
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
Evolution is the process of emergent complexity over time by specific mathematical functions directing the orderly interaction of relative values.
Every pattern that ends in the suffix "-ness", has an emergent quality which is greater than the sum of its parts.
This is the position Tegmark has proposed in relation to "consciousness" as an emergent quality from the processes by the entire neural network in general and the brain in particular.
There are literally thousands of emergent qualities which exceed the qualities or values of the individual constituent values. What causes "happiness"? It's an emergent property of the pattern arrangement in the brain that "feels" good, such as flooding the brain with psychoactive chemicals, which by a mathematical equation trigger an emotional "experience" (conscious or unconscious).
Emergent qualities in complex patterns is proof of the evolutionary processes as defined in a fundamental way.
Evolution = Process of unfolding mathematically allowed dynamic pattern forming at a fundamental level.
Network = A complex pattern of individual more fundamental information processors, with an emergent quality of greater control over the information being processed. Exercising control over a reaction is the first sign of self-aware conscious-ness .
This is well documented in the mathematical experiments performed with apes, monkeys , and Lemurs, which prove that a Lemur can make a simple mathematical calculation as well as humans in a very general sense of recognizing "more" from "less" and making a purposeful response reaction to this information. Some Lemurs beat the college students in this specific task that only required cognition of two relative quantities.
Are Lemurs conscious? Of course they are and more so under some circumstances, such as gauging 30' leaps from tree branch to adjacent tree branches. That takes supreme skill!
Mathematics is the language of physcis and other sciences. Without it, we are dumb.
Playing dumb again river? Being the forum troll and idiot again river?
"Mathematics is the language of physics and other sciences. Without it, we are dumb".
DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
Mathematics does just fine without physics.
There are whole branches of mathematics that are not applicable to the physical world.
We've been through this river.
I'll give you a Grade one example: simple arithmetic - addition and subtraction. You don't need any physical application to do arithmetic. 4+4=8 is true in a purely mathematical application - You can apply it to counting apples, but it is not necessary to do so.
One Googol plus One Googol is still two Googol - even though there is nothing in the universe of which there is a Googol's worth - let alone two Googol.
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
Look around you. Everything you see is a mathematical pattern. Every physical object is nothing more than stuff arranged in a mathematical pattern. The first
If it were not, you would not be able to identify it and science would be a trivial pursuit.
One of the earliest "stuff" has a mathematical "crystalline" pattern.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal
A Crystal has a quasi-intelligent self-forming mathematical growth pattern!
A microtubule is a crystal growth pattern
A dynamical self-regulating growth pattern with some very interesting potentials in processing a variety of macroscopic and microscopic necessary information processes which are sophisticated enough to enhance the interpretation and understanding of reality based on limited observational abilities.
p.s. close your eyes and internalize a lit lightbulb. See, you saw the lightbulb with your eyes closed. How did your brain do that ???
Fact; it is the brain which is doing that, or more accurately, your brain's best guess of what it experiences at any given conscious experience.
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The physical is the foundation upon which mathematics is based .
Nice post with a full explanatory of maths.
My statement though which river [as usual] seemingly has a problem with was ""Mathematics is the language of physics and other sciences. Without it, we are dumb".
river replied...."So without physics , mathematics has no language" That is like saying "without Australians, English has no language"
Rather then based on my original statement, substituting two words...."English" for "mathematics", and "Australians" for "Physics "
And for river's benefit, while mathematics can do fine without physics, it is still the language of physics.
What Mathematics does fine without any physical thing existing ?
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