Is consciousness to be found in quantum processes in microtubules?

[Write4U]

Theeeere it is.
View attachment 3406

Thanks Dave, you're helping me make a model of a TOE .

p.s. Needs a little refinement, but it's a good start.....

 

[Write4U]

p.s. You may want to consider this.

Evolution,
ev·o·lu·tion, noun

• 1. the process by which different kinds of living organisms are thought to have developed and diversified from earlier forms during the history of the earth.
• synonyms; Darwinism, natural selection

• [*][*]2. the gradual development of something, especially from a simple to a more complex form: "the forms of written languages undergo constant evolution". synonyms; development, advancement, growth, rise, progress, progression, expansion, extension, unfolding, transformation, adaptation, modification, revision, reworking, reconstruction, recasting, change.

  [*] humorous: transmogrification,
  [*]rare: evolvement... more

  [*]3. the giving off of a gaseous product, or of heat: "the evolution of oxygen occurs rapidly in this process"
  [*]4. a pattern of movements or maneuvers: "silk ribbons waving in fanciful evolutions"
  [*]5. the extraction of a root from a given quantity.

  Word Origin early 17th century: from Latin evolutio(n-) ‘unrolling’, from the verb evolvere (see evolve). Early senses related to movement, first recorded in describing a ‘wheeling’ maneuver in the realignment of troops or ships. Current senses stem from a notion of ‘opening out’, giving rise to the sense ‘development’.

  https://www.lexico.com/definition/evolution

You like the word evolution don't you? But you need to start with the "word origin".

 

[Write4U]

Ran across this tidbit; Cosmos and History: The Journal of Natural and Social Philosophy, Vol 14, No 1 (2018)
Solution to David Chalmers's "Hard Problem" Jack Sarfatti, Arik Shimansky

Induces qualia in the THz region as found empirically by Stuart Hameroff as vibrational excitation soliton wave packets above the ground state of the giant Frohlich coherent order parameter.

We gleaned the final piece in the puzzle of how consciousness arises from the material world from a result relating to long range collective excitations in microtubules described by Stuart Hameroff in a recent Fetzer Foundation conference in London.

Herbert Fröhlich suggested that almost any many-particle system when properly pumped far off thermodynamic equilibrium can be put into a robust macro-quantum coherent state immune from environmental decoherence.

Indeed, we suggest that all life forms are an example of Frohlich coherence that is intimately connected with locally-retrocausal PQM back-reaction's violation of the de Broglie guidance equation that was assumed by Bohm in his 1952 pilot wave theory.

Using nature as a guide combined with nanotechnology points the way to the construction of naturally conscious artificial intelligence machines capable of hacking into current-day quantum cryptographic networks. Furthermore, one can imagine attaining the transhumanist agenda. For example, the consciousness of a genius like Stephen Hawking could be uploaded to the post-quantum Cloud and then downloaded to a healthy body or android.

https://www.academia.edu/40822262/F...otubles_V3?email_work_card=abstract-read-more

I see this as the self-referential information processing ability in MT, which Hameroff describes in his papers.

 

[exchemist]

 

[river]

We gleaned the final piece in the puzzle of how consciousness arises from the material world from a result relating to long range collective excitations in microtubules described by Stuart Hameroff in a recent Fetzer Foundation conference in London.

Herbert Fröhlich suggested that almost any many-particle system when properly pumped far off thermodynamic equilibrium can be put into a robust macro-quantum coherent state immune from environmental decoherence.
​

What is " far off thermodynamic equilibrium " mean .

Heat and Cold , would be the , Environmental decoherence .

 

[river]

If Consciousness is found in quantum microtubules , that is just the begining of the manifestation of Consiousness .

Life is a form of Energy unto its own .

It uses the material world to manifest .

 

[river]

Microtubules are found in the nervous system .

Spina Difida , incomplete closing of the spine , and membrane , around the spinal cord .

 

[Write4U]

If Consciousness is found in quantum microtubules , that is just the beginning of the manifestation of Consciousness . Life is a form of Energy unto its own .

We are looking for the beginning of consciousness, no? The rest is a matter of degree of consciousness.
It uses the material world to manifest .[/QUOTE] Life IS an expression of the material world. Consciousness is the level of self-awareness of external sensory inputs which allows a living organism to interact with its environment.

The seat of self-aware consciousness resides in the brain and may well use macro quantum function which, rather than a purely electro-chemical reaction also manifest as an sensory pain/pleasure experience by the brain.

Sensory awareness begins very early as a self-referential chemical interaction. IOW, an organism with a light sensitive patch will react to available amounts of light. The organism is able to detect light and respond with dynamic reactions.

Phototropism is a perfect example. The sunflower has evolved an ability to "detect" light and "learned" to respond and "follow" the amount and line up in the direction of the lightsource (sun) where it can make use of maximum energy for producing very many large well protected seed. That's what a Sunflower is all about...

https://www.feedipedia.org/node/6225

Note that there are "carnivorous plants" who use sensory triggers for trapping insects by means of hydraulic action in the claws (leaves) of the "Venus Flytrap"........

https://www.welivealot.com/venus-flytrap-facts-for-kids/

The Paramecium, a "single celled" collection of biochemicals propels itself by means of a chemical "motor" (an array of microtubules), and can learn to avoid obstacles, by (short-term) "memorizing" physical and kinetic forces.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paramecium

Note the presence of microtubules in this simple living motile organism. They control the cell's "mitosis" and that's where cell complexity requires some extraordinary functional processing abilities. Microtubules provide that resource.

Bacteria

Behaviour
Movement
Further information: Chemotaxis, Flagellum, and Pilus

Transmission electron micrograph of Desulfovibrio vulgaris showing a single flagellum at one end of the cell. Scale bar is 0.5 micrometers long.
Many bacteria are motile (able to move themselves) and do so using a variety of mechanisms. The best studied of these are flagella, long filaments that are turned by a motor at the base to generate propeller-like movement.[130] The bacterial flagellum is made of about 20 proteins, with approximately another 30 proteins required for its regulation and assembly.[130] The flagellum is a rotating structure driven by a reversible motor at the base that uses the electrochemical gradient across the membrane for power.[131]


The different arrangements of bacterial flagella: A-Monotrichous; B-Lophotrichous; C-Amphitrichous; D-Peritrichous
Bacteria can use flagella in different ways to generate different kinds of movement. Many bacteria (such as E. coli) have two distinct modes of movement: forward movement (swimming) and tumbling. The tumbling allows them to reorient and makes their movement a three-dimensional random walk.[132] Bacterial species differ in the number and arrangement of flagella on their surface; some have a single flagellum (monotrichous), a flagellum at each end (amphitrichous), clusters of flagella at the poles of the cell (lophotrichous), while others have flagella distributed over the entire surface of the cell (peritrichous). The flagella of a unique group of bacteria, the spirochaetes, are found between two membranes in the periplasmic space. They have a distinctive helical body that twists about as it moves.[130]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacteria#Movement

One "common denominator" in all Eukaryotic organisms is the presence of "microtubules", self-assembling dynamically growing tubes of 2 tubulins arranged in a Fibonacci "golden ratio" and which are responsible for "information transportation" network reaching all parts of the organism and providing "targeted motility" throughout the entire organism's cytoskeleton.

At it's most fundamental scale, all dynamic action is via four fundamental forces;

The Four Fundamental Forces and their strengths

• Gravitational Force – Weakest force; but infinite range. (Not part of standard model).
• Weak Nuclear Force – Next weakest; but short range.
• Electromagnetic Force – Stronger, with infinite range.
• Strong Nuclear Force – Strongest; but short range.

• The Four Fundamental Forces of Nature - Clear IA

These physical forces, functioning in accordance with strict mathematical Order, already present the "potential" (the Implicate) of sufficient information processing to qualify as a "quasi-intelligence", a purely mathematical self-referential, self-forming pattern producing system. Mathematics are a hierarchical set of Orders of pure geometric intelligence without "motivation", but with transcendent emergent properties. What Bohm called the "Implicate and Explicate orders" .

Consciousness is a supreme triumph of the evolutionary potentials "enfolded" in a mathematical spacetime geometry. The proof is that in our trying to find the single abiogenetic event, the search itself has presented us with "hard facts" that conscious intelligence is merely a degree of inherent quasi-intelligence in "everything". Everything is a set of "mathematically arranged patterns", all nicely in accordance to mathematical orders and functioning in a quasi-intelligent manner.

This also explains the more profound concepts of a universal intelligence. i.e. Theism

But not enough attention is being paid to the perfect model which satisfies all philosophical perspectives. A Mathematical Model of the Universe is the ONLY discipline that will allow us to understand everything. Else it will forever be ......brrrrrrrrrrr.....mysterious.....

 

[river]

At it's most fundamental scale, all dynamic action is via four fundamental forces;
The Four Fundamental Forces and their strengths

• Gravitational Force – Weakest force; but infinite range. (Not part of standard model).
• 
  
• Why is gravity not part of this standard model ?

Where is life in any of your fundamental forces ?

 

[Write4U]

• Gravitational Force – Weakest force; but infinite range. (Not part of standard model).
• 
  
• Why is gravity not part of this standard model ?

• No clue.....

Where is life in any of your fundamental forces ?

They are dynamic, causal in very specific ways. Note that their range of influence covers the entire universal geometry with these dynamical forces, which act in a quasi-intelligent mathematical process, eventually creating all the patterns of quantity and quality of life. The evidence for this is overwhelming.

p.s. What's the difference between a "live" beetle and a "dead" beetle? Nothing, except the pattern arrangement of their constituent particles! One pattern is dead, the other pattern is alive and "walking the streets". No invisible hand holding it up, just dynamical physical mechanics, which evolve into greater complexity, culminating in "conscious self-awareness"

 

[river]

• No clue.....

They are dynamic, causal in very specific ways. Note that their range of influence covers the universal geometry with these dynamical forces, which act in a quasi-intelligent mathematical process, eventually creating all the patterns of quantity and quality of life.

p.s. What's the difference between a "live" beetle and a "dead" beetle? Nothing, except the pattern arrangement of their constituent particles! One pattern is dead, the other pattern is alive and "walking the streets"

To your last statement ;

Why ?

 

[river]

Where is life in any of your fundamental forces ?

They are dynamic, causal in very specific ways. Note that their range of influence covers the entire universal geometry with these dynamical forces, which act in a quasi-intelligent mathematical process, eventually creating all the patterns of quantity and quality of life. The evidence for this is overwhelming

Explain now in clear English .

 

[river]

Life thinks .

 

[paddoboy]

• Gravitational Force – Weakest force; but infinite range. (Not part of standard model).
• 
  
• Why is gravity not part of this standard model ?

That requires a TOE, which we do not have at this time...or if you like a QGT.

 

[river]

Life thinks .

 

[river]

That requires a TOE, which we do not have at this time...or if you like a QGT.

Who is we ?

 

[Write4U]

To your last statement ;

Why ?

There is no difference in physical constituents, it is the way they are arranged which makes the pattern alive or dead.

Easy example. Why does a person freeze to death? A frozen person has the exact same number of particles. The difference between a living person and a dead person is in the arrangement of the particles.

An even more remarkable pattern is found in the Tardigrade. You can freeze it for extended periods of time, but when you add a little warm water, it "picks itself up and do it all over again"; Tardigrade

They have been found everywhere, from mountaintops to the deep sea and mud volcanoes,[7] and from tropical rainforests to the Antarctic.

Tardigrades are among the most resilient animals known,[9][10] with individual species able to survive extreme conditions—such as exposure to extreme temperatures, extreme pressures (both high and low), air deprivation, radiation, dehydration, and starvation—that would quickly kill most other known forms of life. Tardigrades have survived exposure to outer space.

About 1,300 known species[13]
form the phylum Tardigrada, a part of the superphylum Ecdysozoa.

The earliest known true members of the group are known from Cretaceous amber in North America, but are essentially modern forms, and therefore likely have a significantly earlier origin, as they diverged from their closest relatives in the Cambrian, over 500 million years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tardigrade

Sometimes you don't need to be smart, if you are too small to make meal and too resilient in the face of extreme conditions.

 

[paddoboy]

Who is we ?

Who is you?

 

[river]

Easy example. Why does a person freeze to death? A frozen person has the exact same number of particles. The difference between a living person and a dead person is in the arrangement of the particles.

And what is this arrangement of these particles ?

Of course to your last statement .

 

[river]

Who is you?

From your post#1016

paddoboy said: ↑
That requires a TOE, which we do not have at this time...or if you like a QGT.

Who is we pad ?