Is Abortion a right someone should have?

well i know this much
if i were female and i got pregnant, you, god, the government, NOBODY would tell me that i was, or that i wasn't going to have a child.

what really gets me is how you can think you can "force" people to do things

a female has a right to an abortion as long as a man has a right to a boner.

its for women to decide, not men
 
It's really hard taking sides on this. Both sides have good points. I think what it mostly is, in my case, is that for me it's against my religion. I do understand that not everyone is the same religion as me though.
You see, but from what I've learned The Catechism of the Catholic Church states, "Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his/her existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person."
Some people don't think life starts at conception though. So I guess all of us will never agree.
 
James R:

mountainhare:“ I never claimed that people should not have sex, I pointed out that if they do have sex, they should be prepared to take care of the product of it. In otherwords, they should accept the consequences. If they aren't prepared to accept the inherent risk in having sex, then they shouldn't do so! ”

James R: That's all very well in an ideal, fluffy, conservative world. But our real world isn't like that.
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In the real world, we don't expect individuals to take responsibility for their actions?! What the FUCK?! Have I woken up in the Twilight Zone?!

Oh, and I'm actually not a conservative (nor am I a liberal).

Your neighbour and yourself presumably have an equal right to life. Abortion, as I keep explaining, involves weighing up the interests of the mother against the interests of the foetus. Is that too difficult to understand?
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No, it's not difficult to understand. Please don't patronize me, merely because I don't agree with your messed up worldview. You support the murder of an unborn child to improve the quality of life of the mother, who essentially chose to have sex in the first place. Where is the sense in that?

Oh wait, I forgot. You believe that the fetus magically transforms itself from a blob of cells into a human when it passes out of the magic hole. Never mind.

What percentage of sex acts are undertaken with the intent to have a child, do you think? Essentially, you are advocating abolishing sex, except for conception.
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Wrong again! Why do liberal retards continually spew these straw man arguments?!

Quite simply, anyone is welcome to have unprotected sex. However, if they happen to produce a child, bad luck. The couple knew that there is always the risk that if you have sex, the woman will become pregnant. Ergo, don't cry 'foul' when the woman falls pregnant, even if you didn't 'intend' for it to happen. Take responsibility for your actions, instead of killing your responsibility.

You really have no clue about how people behave.
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And how did you arrive at this judgement? Oh wait, I forgot, couples which don't have sex before marriage don't exist in liberal dumbfuck land. They are mythical creatures, like unicorns, leprechauns, and the brain of a liberal.

In fact, I doubt you apply your own advice to yourself.
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So now you are calling me a liar? This gets better and better. The last time you engaged in character assassination (against Happeh), you got your ass handed to you with garnish and condiments. Are you sure that you want to start round 2 against another poster who knows how to hold his own in a debate?

That's if you have a partner, which is doubtful with those kinds of attitudes.
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What's wrong with my attitude? You mean the attitude where I take responsibility for my actions? Or the attitude where I realize that sex = preggers? Or the attitude that I shouldn't risk getting a woman preggers, because I'm not capable of looking after a child?
 
mountainhare said:
And how did you arrive at this judgement? Oh wait, I forgot, couples which don't have sex before marriage don't exist in liberal dumbfuck land. They are mythical creatures, like unicorns, leprechauns, and the brain of a liberal.
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Ha ha, nicely put. When you tell someone you want to wait until marriage for sex they look at you like your crazy. I don't understand why. It's not like your telling them too wait, but they still think your crazy because of your own choice. A lot of the "liberals" aren't all that liberal, in fact some are more closed minded then some conservatives. And some think your closed minded for having your own beliefs. It's all messed up.
 
And some think your closed minded for having your own beliefs."

IMO, it's a huge discussion and a lot of things can be written (and thought!) about obviously for, and aganist it. For one.. what if somebody raped you? That would be terrible but i'm just saying. I would personally immediately say without thought (like many people would) why not? Then the pro lifers would ban me with "it's a human life, yeah yeah." I heard one dude say that it is allowed because scientifically the "baby," isn't a human life until so long of a time. So it should be allowed. Only for a certain time though? I don't know. Liz would you agree with that? That it isn't, scientifically, a living god granted human being?

But there are way too many issues. If scientifically it isn't a baby, that should be allowed IMO....

The poor babys. I am just concerned for how the woman may feel I guess. If she wants to get one reallllllyyyyy baddly, I want to hear her. I want to see why she wants to get one. I don't want to say no you can not get this, when you can get everything else in the earth.
 
QuarkMoon:

Let's go back to basics.

Because it is wrong. It's as wrong an act as anything else the government prohibits. Abortion for reasons other then rape or incest are morally wrong, and should be prohibited right along with any other crime.
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Explain to me why abortion other than for rape is morally wrong.
 
I think a lot of people morally lie about the abortion issue. That they are not.. what is the word then.. Honest?
 
mountainhare:

Please don't patronize me, merely because I don't agree with your messed up worldview. You support the murder of an unborn child to improve the quality of life of the mother, who essentially chose to have sex in the first place. Where is the sense in that?
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It improves the quality of life of the mother. You answered your own question.

Oh wait, I forgot. You believe that the fetus magically transforms itself from a blob of cells into a human when it passes out of the magic hole. Never mind.
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No. It is you who believes that a blob of cells is instantly at least morally equivalent to a new-born child, despite the fact that you kill blobs of cells all the time.

Quite simply, anyone is welcome to have unprotected sex. However, if they happen to produce a child, bad luck. The couple knew that there is always the risk that if you have sex, the woman will become pregnant. Ergo, don't cry 'foul' when the woman falls pregnant, even if you didn't 'intend' for it to happen. Take responsibility for your actions, instead of killing your responsibility.
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You don't think that making a very difficult decision involves taking responsibility? Why not? Surely there's LESS taking of responsibility when your decision is imposed upon you - when your freedom of choice is removed.

Oh wait, I forgot, couples which don't have sex before marriage don't exist in liberal dumbfuck land. They are mythical creatures, like unicorns, leprechauns, and the brain of a liberal.
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Did you know that the abortion rate in the "true love waits" crowd is as high as for any other group?

What's wrong with my attitude? You mean the attitude where I take responsibility for my actions?
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No. I mean the attitude by which you preach at people and tell them how to live their lives, despite having none of your interests affected.
 
I think a lot of people morally lie about the abortion issue.
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I agree. Some people first reach a conclusion, then try to invent arguments to justify their gut feeling.
 
James R:
It improves the quality of life of the mother. You answered your own question.
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And I asked you why you consider a moderate increase in the quality of life of the mother more valuable that the actual life of a human being. You have failed to answer this question. Typical.

No. It is you who believes that a blob of cells is instantly at least morally equivalent to a new-born child, despite the fact that you kill blobs of cells all the time.
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A fetus is just a blob of cells? Funny. Looks like someone needs to read up on embyrology, and also taxonomy.

You don't think that making a very difficult decision involves taking responsibility? Why not?
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You're not taking responsibility for your actions when you murder the product of your actions.

Did you know that the abortion rate in the "true love waits" crowd is as high as for any other group?
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Did you know that you've failed to source that claim? Oh, silly me. Expecting a liberal to back up their claims.

No. I mean the attitude by which you preach at people and tell them how to live their lives, despite having none of your interests affected.
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You preach at people every time you elect a government which supports a legal system. The legal system is nothing more than YOU forcing your version on morality on OTHERS. Hypocrite.
 
James R said:
QuarkMoon:

Let's go back to basics.
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But of course, because the basics is all you have left in this discussion.

Explain to me why abortion other than for rape is morally wrong.
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Killing a future child. However, when it comes to rape, requiring a women to carry a child created from rape is also immoral. The reason we argue against it when it is consensual sex is because the women had a choice and chose to ignore the consequences. When a man rapes a women, he has to take responsibility for it (jail). When a women has consensual, unprotected sex and gets pregnant, she has to take responsibility for it.

James R said:
I agree. Some people first reach a conclusion, then try to invent arguments to justify their gut feeling.
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Huh? The pot calling the kettle black, you're a hypocrite.

You stll haven't addressed how adoption is more traumatizing than abortion, how "accidental" scenario's such as the one you described are "common", the increase in abortions since they were legalized, or why is it that 47% of women who have an abortion have already had one or more. Until you can address those with valid counter-arguments, you have no ground to stand on.
 
If your facts are not touchable quark moon, the people who have abortion babys dead more... then of course if we then have no ground you are 100% right. Feel well now. You won your arguement.... I know for a fact that people morally lie about it. Maybeyourself don't lie to me. I don't care. I have feelings.

Then our no ground left to stand on is none, and abortions are still allowed yet. What ground toyou have to make them quit having them? Maybe you are right. Maybe they should have them?

Maybe they shouldn't and so you think they shouldn't. Maybe you're right, that it is killing a child when it isn't allowed. I think you are a moral hypocrit.

LOL
 
existabrent said:
If your facts are not touchable quark moon, the people who have abortion babys dead more... then of course if we then have no ground you are 100% right. Feel well now. You won your arguement.... I know for a fact that people morally lie about it. Maybeyourself don't lie to me. I don't care. I have feelings.

Then our no ground left to stand on is none, and abortions are still allowed yet. What ground toyou have to make them quit having them? Maybe you are right. Maybe they should have them?

Maybe they shouldn't and so you think they shouldn't. Maybe you're right, that it is killing a child when it isn't allowed. I think you are a moral hypocrit.

LOL
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It's funny, this thread especially has had Conservative and Liberal rhetoric thrown around like candy. But the fact is, Liberals and Conservatives are exactly the same. Your argument reminds me exactly of how a Conservative would defend Bush and his policies, how a Conservative would defend religion interfering with government. Just look at how they argue, and look how you guys are arguing for abortion.

When facts are thrown in, they are ignored and instead more rhetoric is spewed. The reason I oppose abortion is not because I'm a Conservative (most would call me a Liberal if anything), and not because I'm religious. I oppose it because even though it is technically a fetus, it will develop into a Human being. To abort a fetus is to abort a future Human being. That is why I am against it, and why I am in favor of it only in instances of rape or incest.
 
QuarkMoon said:
It's funny, this thread especially has had Conservative and Liberal rhetoric thrown around like candy. But the fact is, Liberals and Conservatives are exactly the same. Your argument reminds me exactly of how a Conservative would defend Bush and his policies, how a Conservative would defend religion interfering with government. Just look at how they argue, and look how you guys are arguing for abortion.

When facts are thrown in, they are ignored and instead more rhetoric is spewed. The reason I oppose abortion is not because I'm a Conservative (most would call me a Liberal if anything), and not because I'm religious. I oppose it because even though it is technically a fetus, it will develop into a Human being. To abort a fetus is to abort a future Human being. That is why I am against it, and why I am in favor of it only in instances of rape or incest.
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I get a kick out of this. Again you are criticising me. When i am having fun. So, I guess I must be wrong, god bann me to hell. My arguements are fairly un-sane. However, they are not anyway but my way so I am wrong.

I like how you say that you are in favor of it, though. That leaves one open to doubt, one like me though.

"I am in favor of it" If i was to quote u for those tabloids you'd have yourself spread like fun. Like fun, is what I mean of course. But hey, who says you are wrong. I mean, you are right! lol

Oh yeah, you are defending it because it is a human life. And you are defending it very heavily it seems so to me. I am simply having fun. I have I a right to my doubt?

Oh by the way mister, would you ever want an abortion? I don't know I thought that was a stupid question.
 
I am a serious troll (i am not a troll), who is trying to add discussion. Intelligent discussion if it is not thank you
 
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