Is Abortion a right someone should have?
- Thread starter hug-a-tree
- Start date
mountainhare:
That's all very well in an ideal, fluffy, conservative world. But our real world isn't like that.
Your neighbour and yourself presumably have an equal right to life. Abortion, as I keep explaining, involves weighing up the interests of the mother against the interests of the foetus. Is that too difficult to understand?
What percentage of sex acts are undertaken with the intent to have a child, do you think? Essentially, you are advocating abolishing sex, except for conception.
You really have no clue about how people behave. In fact, I doubt you apply your own advice to yourself. That's if you have a partner, which is doubtful with those kinds of attitudes.
That's all very well in an ideal, fluffy, conservative world. But our real world isn't like that.
Your neighbour and yourself presumably have an equal right to life. Abortion, as I keep explaining, involves weighing up the interests of the mother against the interests of the foetus. Is that too difficult to understand?
What percentage of sex acts are undertaken with the intent to have a child, do you think? Essentially, you are advocating abolishing sex, except for conception.
You really have no clue about how people behave. In fact, I doubt you apply your own advice to yourself. That's if you have a partner, which is doubtful with those kinds of attitudes.
leopold99 said:
*sigh*
One last time, seriously, this is the last time, I will not respond to that argument anymore.
leopold99 said:
The women chooses to have consensual sex, the women chooses not to take birth control pills, the women chooses to have sex when she knows she is not ready for children, the women chooses to take the chance of pregnancy instead of using protection. Um, yeah, looks to me like she is just as responsible as the man.
Yes, but they will happen less. Look at the numbers of abortions before it was legal, the number has jumped exponentially. In fact, in the first year of legality in 1973, there were 774,600. In 2001 it has jumped to 1.31 million abortions performed (I can't find any more recent statistics, but trends show that abortions are decreasing by about 0.1% per year).
And this nonsense of women accidently getting pregnant once, according to the Alan Guttmacher Institute 47% of abortions are performed on women who have already had one or more abortions.
Almost half of the abortions are performed on women who have already had an abortion! And you tell me that abortion is this heart wrenching experience and the women would surely learn from her mistake? Yeah, right.
Quarkmoon:
Then you'd be wrong.
I said she was drunk. Is she still at fault? What about the man? Does he take ANY blame in this situation? Or are all men absolved of all responsibility for pregnancy, according to you?
And what if this was a "date rape" situation? That's common enough, and many such events are not reported, for many reasons.
Yes, she could. And you want to tell her she must, despite whatever her wishes may be.
I doubt you'd change your mind if I presented a study which showed that adoption was more traumatic for the mother than abortion. Would you?
Again, you completely disregard the interests of the mother in favour of the interests of the child. Why are you so keen to treat the mother as if she doesn't exist? Is this your general approach to women?
It's very easy to make that kind of statement in the abstract. The fact is, nobody knows what you'd do if you were actually confronted with such a decision. As I said before, it's all care and no responsibility for your conservative men.
That's you. That's fine for you. You are quite free to live a celibate life and only ever have sex to procreate. No sex before marriage for Quarkmoon! Ok.
Now, explain it to me again. What gives you the right to tell other people how to live their lives?
You don't think having to face an agonisingly difficult decision like this is accountable enough? Of course not. You want to be moral policeman, on an issue you personally will never face.
How noble of you.
QuarkMoon said:
Then you'd be wrong.
I said she was drunk. Is she still at fault? What about the man? Does he take ANY blame in this situation? Or are all men absolved of all responsibility for pregnancy, according to you?
And what if this was a "date rape" situation? That's common enough, and many such events are not reported, for many reasons.
Yes, she could. And you want to tell her she must, despite whatever her wishes may be.
I doubt you'd change your mind if I presented a study which showed that adoption was more traumatic for the mother than abortion. Would you?
Again, you completely disregard the interests of the mother in favour of the interests of the child. Why are you so keen to treat the mother as if she doesn't exist? Is this your general approach to women?
It's very easy to make that kind of statement in the abstract. The fact is, nobody knows what you'd do if you were actually confronted with such a decision. As I said before, it's all care and no responsibility for your conservative men.
That's you. That's fine for you. You are quite free to live a celibate life and only ever have sex to procreate. No sex before marriage for Quarkmoon! Ok.
Now, explain it to me again. What gives you the right to tell other people how to live their lives?
You don't think having to face an agonisingly difficult decision like this is accountable enough? Of course not. You want to be moral policeman, on an issue you personally will never face.
How noble of you.
What did you expect? Before abortion was legalised, ALL abortions were illegal, and hence unrecorded in official statistics.
In the years it has been legalised, 2 things have happened:
1. Fewer and fewer illegal abortions, as safe abortion has become more readily available.
2. Population has increased.
the same can be applied to both sexesQuarkMoon said:
with the exception that a man must aquire and maintain an erection during the entire process
that, in my opinion, makes a man more resposible than women.
if you honestly look at the situation you would see that women have a god given right to an abortion
you say that you have protected sex
has the thought ever occure to you that the condom might break?
i can honestly say it was on the females mind.
i also assume that you are male
if that is true then you must also know what sexual animals they are.
a young man is nothing more than a virtual walking hard on
looking for a receptive female to impregnate.
no, abortions are a right for every female
James R said:
Prove it. Until then, I will not refer to it as rare and you will not refer to it as common, deal?
If she was drunk and the man forced himself onto her, then yes, abortion is completely acceptable. I'm not sure anyone here has been arguing against abortion in instances of rape or incest. In fact I have repeated that numerous times.
You brought up how it could burden her studies, I responded with a solution.
Of course I would! Why wouldn't I? Show proof and we can acknowledge it as a valid argument.
9 months of labor, in order to give a Human being a chance at life without the "burden" of raising the child herself. I would say that is quite reasonable.
It's very easy to make that kind of a statement because it's what I believe. If you weren't going to acknowledge my answer, why did you ask?
Who said anything about celibacy? Is the idea of protected sex so hard for you to comprehend? Is the idea that someone would think to use condoms and birth control pills so foreign to you that you automatically assume celibacy? Do you think maybe that's part of the problem?
Because it is wrong. It's as wrong an act as anything else the government prohibits. Abortion for reasons other then rape or incest are morally wrong, and should be prohibited right along with any other crime.
Ad hominem attacks because you lack substance. Fact: 47% of abortions are performed on women who have already had one or more abortions.
James R said:
Hey look, I can twist facts too!
In the years it has been legalized, two things have happened:
1. More abortions have been performed
2. More women are having multiple abortions
Legalized abortion has led to abortions becoming commonplace. Millions are performed each year, with almost half being on women who have already had one. Tell me, before they were legal, how many women do you think had multiple abortions?
leopold99 said:
If two consensual partners want to have sex before they are ready to raise a child, then the women should use the birth control pills (obviously) and the man should use condoms.
As for "what ifs", that's what adoption is for. In the rare occasion that both the condom and the birth control pill fail, put the baby up for adoption.
Hell, if more people just used one of the protective measures, either condoms or birth control pills, accidental pregnancies would plummet!
leopold99 said:
Provide any evidence that shows the use of birth control pills has any permenant negative affect on a women.
Yeah, pretty simple, huh? Now all we have to do is get people to use them!
The U.S. is currently precreating at a rate barely above replacement level, abortion only has a minimal affect on population size. In fact, I believe the United States is the only industrialized nation that procreates above replacement level.
The countries you need to worry about are the third world Muslim countries, where birth rates are as high as nearly 7 children per mother. Go over there and tell those people to have abortions, I'm sure they will welcome you with open arms.
Keeping the worldwide population size "in check" is not my concern. If you want to keep it in check, nuke a few countries and call it a day. Because with or without abortion, the population size will increase unabated.
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