I'm a Christian, flame me.

[Tiassa]

Lightbeing

Again, very typical christian response. And how are you winning exactly?

It's something we wouldn't understand. It's a matter of faith.

Of course, it is a matter of faith to a Christian that there is anything to be won or lost in the mundane.

It is frustrating, though. I would sincerely love for Tony1 to be a general deviation from the experience, but unfortunately the only deviation is his persistence. In that sense, he truly does believe himself to have godly knowledge; remember God already knows everything, and thus has no learning curve.

thanx,
Tiassa

 

[mcflytrap]

Thought I'd bring this thread out of the grave.

 

[SnakeLord]

Ooh, I've been waiting for your return..

I just had issues with a couple of things you said early on in this thread, and thought they were worth questioning. I didn't email you because I only email friends and business partners. However, now you're here I can ask. Whether you answer or not is your own business.

Call me crazy, but I am completely and 100% sane. It's so laughable that even after I present you with something that disproves all your little theories

Here is the first problem. You say you present something that "disproves" other people's 'little' theories, and I want to ask how that's the case. Do you know what "disproves" means, and if so, how could you consider your mere say-so of an event as disproving anything?

And now for the important part:

Quick edit: I forgot to mention that after my dad cast out the demon the girl was fine, thank God. This was over 8 years ago. To this day she's had no sign of mental illness or anything of the like. Doesn't really sound like a mentally disturbed person to me.

Ok, you sound sincere. I believe you. However, we need to get the paperwork out the way, so if you could please provide the name of this individual and all details surrounding this supposed excorcism. This would include newspaper articles, names, dates, places, your age at the time, your fathers profession and where he learnt to excorcise, how you first found out she was possessed, [perhaps the daemon called you from her house telling you what he was upto], how your father got involved, and if he is a well known performer of excorcisms, perhaps you can provide details regarding this etc etc.

I know it's quite a lot of work, but you didn't seriously think just saying "this is true" makes it true.. did you?

 

[nicoman]

LIGHTBEING beware, you may declare, that light is approving of death is commencing at your level. light doesn't fade, in truth it is laid, my advice is friendly, your truth is suspending, don't go there if you dare, my life doesn't care, you leave me unwitting, I leave you unsitting. Life it a token. To you, this I've spoken.

 

[c20H25N3o]

Ooh, I've been waiting for your return..

I just had issues with a couple of things you said early on in this thread, and thought they were worth questioning. I didn't email you because I only email friends and business partners. However, now you're here I can ask. Whether you answer or not is your own business.



Here is the first problem. You say you present something that "disproves" other people's 'little' theories, and I want to ask how that's the case. Do you know what "disproves" means, and if so, how could you consider your mere say-so of an event as disproving anything?

And now for the important part:



Ok, you sound sincere. I believe you. However, we need to get the paperwork out the way, so if you could please provide the name of this individual and all details surrounding this supposed excorcism. This would include newspaper articles, names, dates, places, your age at the time, your fathers profession and where he learnt to excorcise, how you first found out she was possessed, [perhaps the daemon called you from her house telling you what he was upto], how your father got involved, and if he is a well known performer of excorcisms, perhaps you can provide details regarding this etc etc.

I know it's quite a lot of work, but you didn't seriously think just saying "this is true" makes it true.. did you?

Why dont you believe them? Is it so hard to take a fellow human being at their word? Would you like it if every time you spoke a truth about your life someone immediately asked you for proof of what you had said?
Such a level of distrust for fellow man is a terrible shame - who has done this to you?

 

[SnakeLord]

Why dont you believe them? Is it so hard to take a fellow human being at their word?

To answer your question, I will ask you one in return.

Why didn't you take David Koresh at his word? Or L Ron Hubbard, or Hitler perhaps?

Now, those who know me, will know that I honestly detest using the word "fact", for I feel it is way overused, way too easily and where it does not belong. However, I will break that tradition for a moment and give you some facts:

1) People lie.

2) People lie, and although sometimes it is completely unintentional, it is still not true.

3) Stories become morphed, warped, and changed from the original events, as time goes by. It eventually comes to a stage where one doesn't even know if those original events even took place or whether they are merely the work of story tellers.

There's no need to go all the way back through time several thousand years, but just a few small years: "Why dont you believe David Koresh? Is it so hard to take a fellow human being at their word?"

I await a response.

Would you like it if every time you spoke a truth about your life someone immediately asked you for proof of what you had said?

If I had been dead for the past two millenniums, sure.

Such a level of distrust for fellow man is a terrible shame

It's called sanity. You know, just the other week some dude came upto me and said he'd seen a pink monkey playing in his garden. Being the "all-believing", "all-trusting", individual that you are, you would have undoubtedly just believed every word and this time next week be praising the pink monkey - but the majority of us "humans", are slightly more in tune with things, that the "word" of someone does not in any way give it the right to be seen as absolute truth- especially when those words originated several thousand years ago by people we don't, and will never know.

who has done this to you?

The giant yellow turnip of mount hoogle-woogle.

 

[c20H25N3o]

To answer your question, I will ask you one in return.

Why didn't you take David Koresh at his word? Or L Ron Hubbard, or Hitler perhaps?

Now, those who know me, will know that I honestly detest using the word "fact", for I feel it is way overused, way too easily and where it does not belong. However, I will break that tradition for a moment and give you some facts:

1) People lie.

2) People lie, and although sometimes it is completely unintentional, it is still not true.

3) Stories become morphed, warped, and changed from the original events, as time goes by. It eventually comes to a stage where one doesn't even know if those original events even took place or whether they are merely the work of story tellers.

There's no need to go all the way back through time several thousand years, but just a few small years: "Why dont you believe David Koresh? Is it so hard to take a fellow human being at their word?"

I await a response.



If I had been dead for the past two millenniums, sure.



It's called sanity. You know, just the other week some dude came upto me and said he'd seen a pink monkey playing in his garden. Being the "all-believing", "all-trusting", individual that you are, you would have undoubtedly just believed every word and this time next week be praising the pink monkey - but the majority of us "humans", are slightly more in tune with things, that the "word" of someone does not in any way give it the right to be seen as absolute truth- especially when those words originated several thousand years ago by people we don't, and will never know.



The giant yellow turnip of mount hoogle-woogle.

Is it not more polite just to take them at their word even though secretly you may doubt them?

 

[SnakeLord]

Is it not more polite just to take them at their word even though secretly you may doubt them?

Polite? In the case of the biblical writers, they've been dead for several thousand years so politeness isn't an issue.

Further to which, "secretly doubting someone" is the same as "doubting someone" - which, because I do, made you tell me what a terrible shame it is and that someone must have done something to me. Can I now return that gesture?

The 'fact' remains that people do lie, intentionally or not, and the guy I originally posted to cannot say he has "disproved" anything merely because he says so.

It's nothing personal, I would say the same to any person - and even more so when the claims are so extraordinary that they are right on the border next to complete lunacy.

I deal on a daily basis with people of varying mental issues, problems, beliefs and so on. I look at what they write, what they do, what they say, how they sit, and so on.

I once spoke to a man who claimed he had been abducted and raped by aliens.

I could have just taken the man at his word and then entered the experience into the UFO journals - but the truth is hardly ever the first thing said, (although unintentionally and unrealised to their own minds), and it then takes a further six months just to get to the reality, in that he was abused as a child, not by aliens either.

Now, when looking at biblical writing, or any ancient texts from the Enuma Elish to the Kebra Nagast - we need to understand that not only were these people capable of lying, (intentionally and unintentionally), but that they didn't really know much about the world they inhabited. Things take on completely different proportions for such individuals - where a bolt of lightning can come across as being a destructive message from a man in the sky.

Beyond that, we have a document that is by far incomplete, and ever so contradictory - which will happen in something so vast spread over a massive time era. It will undoubtedly incorporate stories of old aswell, and adapt them to the new society. What we end up with is something that cannot by any sane decision, be looked upon as 'truth'.

What many religious people of today do is to say "this is to be taken literally", when they are happy to believe something as true, and "this is to be taken metaphorically", when they realise the futility of claiming truth.

But do you think that finding truth can be done by using that pick and choose method? No, it can't - and as such everything must be doubted until such time where it can actually be verified or disproven using methods slightly more concrete than "simple say so".

 

[David F.]

Ok, you sound sincere. I believe you. However, we need to get the paperwork out the way, so if you could please provide the name of this individual and all details surrounding this supposed excorcism. This would include newspaper articles, names, dates, places, your age at the time, your fathers profession and where he learnt to excorcise, how you first found out she was possessed, [perhaps the daemon called you from her house telling you what he was upto], how your father got involved, and if he is a well known performer of excorcisms, perhaps you can provide details regarding this etc etc.

I know it's quite a lot of work, but you didn't seriously think just saying "this is true" makes it true.. did you?

Oh, the cry of the anti-theist - PROVE IT!!! Never mind that nothing can be proven on this forum. The best anyone can do is provide references to look up (which then are trashed as invalid or apologetic - why would a religous link be scorned on a religion forums - hmmmmm).

The problem with atheists is they never have any answers, only questions. But then, questions without answers are pointless - just like atheists.

 

[SnakeLord]

The problem with atheists is they never have any answers, only questions. But then, questions without answers are pointless - just like atheists.

Sounds like you have a few demons of your own.

Oh, the cry of the anti-theist - PROVE IT!!!

My apologies, I didn't realise I was asking for something none of you are capable of.

 

[c20H25N3o]

If I may come to David's defense not that he really needs it...

Sounds like you have a few demons of your own.

Why? Because he has been that athiest and has seen his own futility in that role? A man can only speak in truth of what he himself is convicted of therefore it is only in humility that he calls the athiest way 'pointless' and he only does this because he recognises where true power and glory lay and not in his own self.

My apologies, I didn't realise I was asking for something none of you are capable of.

This is false humility and not a particulary pleasing trait of any human being whether they be athiest or forgiven.

I for one can prove that God exists ...

You should see my child standing in awe as the cocoon reveals the butterfly. My child without prompting will say "Daddy that is so marvelous. God is so clever isn't He"
I respond simply "Yes"
Two of us agree. That is enough.

 

[SnakeLord]

Why? Because he has been that athiest and has seen his own futility in that role?

Hey, there's unknowledgeable atheists aswell, you know. Some people are more 'prone' to turning into one or the other, based upon what's really going on inside themselves. David F's life, from what I can tell, has probably been a miserable one - and one where he has had to 'blag' every scenario he has faced, instead of taking the time to learn the topic. He probably used to be a salesman of some sort. If he was ever an atheist, he was one that was never comfortable without an instant answer. The answers that he used to create for himself out of thin air, have now been handed onto the invisible man.

he only does this because he recognises where true power and glory lay and not in his own self.

The word 'true' does not belong here. A better word would be "assumed".

This is false humility and not a particulary pleasing trait of any human being whether they be athiest or forgiven.

I wasn't trying to be humble, (false or otherwise). I was being completely honest while using a sarcastic tone.

I for one can prove that God exists ...

Go for it..

You should see my child standing in awe as the cocoon reveals the butterfly. My child without prompting will say "Daddy that is so marvelous. God is so clever isn't He"
I respond simply "Yes"
Two of us agree. That is enough.

This tripe merely proves that your poor little child has had your religious views forced upon him/her and pounded into his/her little brain without consent. It's mind rape, and is no better than physical rape.

What's the matter, you couldn't stand to see him/her grow up with his/her own mind, that you had to shove your beliefs down his/her throat? One day he/she might just hate you for it.

 

[c20H25N3o]

Hey, there's unknowledgeable atheists aswell, you know. Some people are more 'prone' to turning into one or the other, based upon what's really going on inside themselves. David F's life, from what I can tell, has probably been a miserable one - and one where he has had to 'blag' every scenario he has faced, instead of taking the time to learn the topic. He probably used to be a salesman of some sort. If he was ever an atheist, he was one that was never comfortable without an instant answer. The answers that he used to create for himself out of thin air, have now been handed onto the invisible man.



The word 'true' does not belong here. A better word would be "assumed".



I wasn't trying to be humble, (false or otherwise). I was being completely honest while using a sarcastic tone.



Go for it..



This tripe merely proves that your poor little child has had your religious views forced upon him/her and pounded into his/her little brain without consent. It's mind rape, and is no better than physical rape.

What's the matter, you couldn't stand to see him/her grow up with his/her own mind, that you had to shove your beliefs down his/her throat? One day he/she might just hate you for it.

For some reason, unbeknown to me Snakelord, you take somethng that is perfectly beautiful and innocent and corrupt it. But then you are the SnakeLord so perhaps I shouldnt be suprised

 

[SnakeLord]

Keep on running..

But then you are the SnakeLord so perhaps I shouldnt be suprised

Does this sound familiar:

"Help- my net name has been used against me! Woe is me! Who will save me from the tyrade of better people than I, those without sin, those who are cleaner than bleach! Who will defend my reputation?"

Hypocrite.

 

[mcflytrap]

Go easy, peeps.

 

[c20H25N3o]

Keep on running..



Does this sound familiar:

"Help- my net name has been used against me! Woe is me! Who will save me from the tyrade of better people than I, those without sin, those who are cleaner than bleach! Who will defend my reputation?"

Hypocrite.

It is a shame that you didn't note the sarcasm in my voice Snakelord. I can take a pis* take as much as the next man.
The point is that we are diametrically opposed in viewpoints.

I believe I am a son of God, ordained to be such by the Most High God.
You dont consider yourself worthy of such a title and so reject Jesus and all He said because to accept Him is to admit you were wrong. I tell you this though, better to confess you are wrong and receive eternal life than to hold on to your human pride and distance yourself from your prize forever.
Who doesn't want to be made into the thing we have always been ordained to be i.e. sons of the Maker of All That Is.
I wanna know how you make a star, I wanna know whats inside a black hole, I wanna know the properties of light, I wanna become light. I want to know that all things are possible for me. These are things I want yet have no hope of understanding them or doing them in this life. Why do I want to do all these things? Why does the word 'fantasy' exist?
I am that I am Snakelord and I will know fully even as I am fully known but for now it is as looking through a glass darkly, like trying to stare at the sun through the darkest of shades.

peace

c20

 

[fahrenheit 451]

c20: your are quite clearly a lunatic, go and see a doctor, david koresh believed he was the son of god, so did jimmy jones, and they killed people. so dont become a jesus cult psychopath, go and see a doctor now, PLEASE.

 

[c20H25N3o]

c20: your are quite clearly a lunatic, go and see a doctor, david koresh believed he was the son of god, so did jimmy jones, and they killed people. so dont become a jesus cult psychopath, go and see a doctor now, PLEASE.

Dear fahrenheit 451,

Thank you ever so much for your recent concern over my mental health. It is very touching that you should worry for me in this way.
I can see that your main worry is that I may go out and kill people. Please let me assure you that this is the last thing on my mind. I have what you may call self-control which is a blessing given the stresses I am sometimes put under. I will however remember your kind words and concern for the human race in general but most of all I will remember your concern for me. If you have time please have a look at some of my poems in the following thread that you may be assured of my mental capacities and thought towards life and others. http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=42118&page=1

God bless

C20


1 Corinthians 3:17
If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him; for God's temple is sacred, and you are that temple.

 

[SnakeLord]

It is a shame that you didn't note the sarcasm in my voice Snakelord. I can take a pis* take as much as the next man.

Then the same can be said to you, and the person you used that quote to. Once again: hypocrite.

The point is that we are diametrically opposed in viewpoints.

You apparently grasp this, and yet then continue your post telling me what I want, feel and so on. At this stage you were doing quite well, why did it all fall apart from then on?

I believe I am a son of God, ordained to be such by the Most High God.

While that's super, smashing, great.. it has no relevance to anything.

You dont consider yourself worthy of such a title and so reject Jesus and all He said because to accept Him is to admit you were wrong.

And here you start with the telling me what I consider etc. It's a nasty habit.

'Worthy', is the most fallacious word you could have used, and while I forgive you for your blatant errors, I would ask that you not repeat them in future.

This 'being' you mentioned does not exist, nor has he ever. That's all there is to it. Title or no title is completely irrelevant. You could liken it to me saying you don't feel worthy enough to be given a title by the loch ness monster. In short: meaningless.

And I have no problem with admitting when I'm wrong. If such time comes where that's the case, I will do so happily.

I fully acknowledge that I can, and sometimes will be wrong - I leave the requirement of evidence and proof on your lap. There's little point quoting from an ancient document however, because I'll just pick another one out the hat which disagrees with yours. Biblical quotes in this instance are completely meaningless aswell.

I tell you this though, better to confess you are wrong and receive eternal life than to hold on to your human pride and distance yourself from your prize forever.

I thought by now you would have learnt. We have spoken about this several times, and I am somewhat dismayed that I need to repeat it yet again. Here it comes, so pay attention:

I don't want the 'prize'. I'm sorry to upset you but I don't want eternal life. That may be important to you, and that's your right.. but it has no meaning for me, which is my right. Instead of understanding and accepting that, you're trying to shove it in my face.

I will admit that 80 years, if lucky, is a tad short and perhaps 300 would be a nice number. This especially given that you're too old to do much after 70 or so, and too young to do much under 20 or so. As such, the figure of 80 years is seriously shortened.

However, eternal life just sounds like eternal boredom to me.

The day you can provide the evidence and proof is the day I'll admit I was wrong. I will still ask if I can be excused from taking the 'prize' however.

Who doesn't want to be made into the thing we have always been ordained to be i.e. sons of the Maker of All That Is.

I don't. I am happy enough being the son of my father/mother, and the father of my children. That is fully sufficient for me.

I wanna know how you make a star, I wanna know whats inside a black hole, I wanna know the properties of light, I wanna become light. I want to know that all things are possible for me. These are things I want yet have no hope of understanding them or doing them in this life.

I don't disagree. And yet.. after 60,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years, you'll know everything and have absolutely nothing left to do.

 

[c20H25N3o]

Snakelord - And I have no problem with admitting when I'm wrong. If such time comes where that's the case, I will do so happily.

C20- Ok

Snakelord - I fully acknowledge that I can, and sometimes will be wrong.

C20 - Great! I'm sensing a knowledge of your own humility. I like.
Snakelord - I leave the requirement of evidence and proof on your lap

C20 - No need already. I believe you.

Snakelord - There's little point quoting from an ancient document however, because I'll just pick another one out the hat which disagrees with yours.

c20 - Now why would you do that? What is a good reason for doing that very thing?

Biblical quotes in this instance are completely meaningless aswell.

c20 - Ok I am sensing you don't like the Bible. Ok.

Snakelord - I thought by now you would have learnt. We have spoken about this several times, and I am somewhat dismayed that I need to repeat it yet again. Here it comes, so pay attention:

I don't want the 'prize'. I'm sorry to upset you but I don't want eternal life.

C20 - You don't want eternal life? Why ever not? I'd like a good reason please. Just one. All I ask. Once you given me it, I promise you can put me on ignore for the rest of your life on sci-forums. How's that for a deal? To seal it so to speak? Now the reason?

Snakelord - That may be important to you, and that's your right.. but it has no meaning for me, which is my right. Instead of understanding and accepting that, you're trying to shove it in my face.

C20 - Is it really so hard to think that someone up there might actually 'love' you? Is it that hard to step out of the boat so to speak? I tell you this, no mater what you think you have done, it is forgiven. It is done.

Snakelord - I will admit that 80 years, if lucky, is a tad short and perhaps 300 would be a nice number.

C20 - I prefer the 60 to the power of infinity number myself but I know what you mean.

Snakelord - This especially given that you're too old to do much after 70 or so, and too young to do much under 20 or so. As such, the figure of 80 years is seriously shortened.

C20 - You are right. I know. But it must happen. You must fall asleep.

Snakelord - However, eternal life just sounds like eternal boredom to me.

C20 - In these perishable bodies yes I agree. We all die. Like seeds. Seeds are transformed. Caterpillar - Cocoon - Butterfly. Have hope, like the caterpillar has hope.

Snakelord - The day you can provide the evidence and proof is the day I'll admit I was wrong.

C20 - It is done.

Snakelord - I will still ask if I can be excused from taking the 'prize' however.

C20 - God has taken you prisoner and will keep you. He has already done it. You do not know what you are saying and are therefore innocent. Death cannot keep you. Nice to meet you.

Snakelord - ... I am happy enough being the son of my father/mother, and the father of my children. That is fully sufficient for me.

C20 - Yes, love is fully sufficient for us. I agree. We live. Death where is thy sting?

Snakelord - I don't disagree.

And yet.. after 60,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years, you'll know everything and have absolutely nothing left to do.

C20 - Except love our families of course. Hehe you nearly tricked me there. You were kidding right? Course you were tricky fellow that you are

Paid For! Thank you Jesus. Bye Bye Satan. Hurrah!
God's Kindom. Live on! The Power and The Glory, Forever and Ever. So be it.
Faith. Hope. Love << You love this one dont you Snakelord. He he. You were kidding about being bored of your family huh? I know you were really.

Praise Jesus. He is Lord. We Live.