I'm a Christian, flame me.

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I see that your method of reading has you thinking that to believe the prophets is to be slow of heart and foolish.
Jesus did say just after that, that Moses and ALL of the prophets wrote of him, so I think your spin on things is contradictory
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Nope Jesus never said any such thing...Matthew wrote the verse you are talking about about 20 or 30 years after Jesus's death..But while you bring up Moses as he is the one that said "thou shall not kill" and then he went out and killed many and started wars and then said god told me too...Well in Moses own words the rock says "thou shall not kill" and it didnt add unless God says so
 
Oh, I get it.

If Jesus is quoted as saying something you don't like, then Matthew wrote it.
But if you think Jesus said something, that's close enough.

So really, what you're asking me to do is ask you what Jesus said.

At least you're very consistent...

---"All religions based on the Bible ignore the parts they don't like and accept the parts they do like.. ..." Justagirl ---
 
nope not at all Toni
Luke 24 25,26


"How foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken. Did not Christ have to suffer these things and then enter his glory"
That's a quote Matthew said that Jesus said and the verses AFTER that Matthew didn't quote Jesus..That's the difference as Matthew didnt have enough guts to condemn Moses .We all know Moses Killed after saying "thou shall not Kill" and Jesus also taught Not to fight
 
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Matthew didn't write Luke, and Moses killed the Egyptian BEFORE he said, "thou shalt not kill."
 
Originally posted by tony1
Matthew didn't write Luke, and Moses killed the Egyptian BEFORE he said, "thou shalt not kill."
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No body knows who wrote what. By the way do you know who were the writers of Bible??, Since you sounds like a old biblical Scholar. Just Curious. :confused:
 
No, Tony1, it's simpler than that

Cris' normal response is to place me on his ignore list because he can't refute my arguments.
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I would say that the reason Cris ignores you is that you have no points to refute. You are, insofar as I can tell, an utter waste of time.

What reason does he have to refute your bigotry? Everyone knows you're wrong.

What reason does he have to refute your lunacy? He's watched me, at least, try.

What reason does he have to refute your arrogance? It is, after all, a defining mark of Christianity.

What reason does he have to pay attention to you? In the end, you merely demonstrate that you're not really paying attention to anything or anyone else.

How are we supposed to refute you, anyway? e.g.

• Catholics aren't Christians. And anyone who argues with you has no point anyway.
• "You're on drugs." Like I said, if you throw that dart enough, you'll hit the target now and again. I'm sure that if you had an actual point about drugs, you would have made it sometime in the last year or so that you've been whining about them.
• My-God-Can-Beat-Up-Your-God: I always loved your little admonitions aside. It must have made you feel good to tell people you had a hitman on your team.

There's always this:
If Jesus is quoted as saying something you don't like, then Matthew wrote it.
But if you think Jesus said something, that's close enough.
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I don't see why you're complaining, Tony1. After all, it doesn't sound too different from your standard: that the Bible says whatever you want it to and doesn't say whatever you can't deal with.

So what, really, is there to refute? I mean, lately you've had less than you did on, say, the occasion that you tried to separate infidels from the least of Christ's brethren despite Christ's admonition to not draw that separation.

Frankly, I don't see why you don't just shut the hell up until you have a point. Sacrifices of the intellect aside, the Christian presence at Sciforums is much more effective, much less ridiculous, and considerably less offensive when you're not here. In fact, I'd reckon the mean IQ among them raises 20 or 30 points when you're not around.

Do what's best for God, Tony1: Shut up.

Or are you just out to do whatever you think feels good?

You know, Tony1, I think that when our topic poster was asking for flamers, he was expecting anti-Christian flaming. Not flaming Christianity. But thanx for the fires. You're keeping the heat bill down.

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:
 
Now, while all this is going on, I would like to point out that my girlfriend is a christian and she's sharp as a tack. Damn smart. She knows a hell of a lot more about people than I do.

So, if any christians are a tad upset by all this, understand that it is not your beliefs under assult, merely the attitudes of a few individuals.
 
I must say that I wonder why anyone still reads tony1's posts. It doesn't take me long to scroll past them, and I only read a few when he first came on before starting to ignore them. Maybe it's just too much fun for the people here who don't like Christianity to have the convenience of a straw man in the flesh.
 
Dan, you're probably right. It does tend to make us feel a bit better about our own view of the universe when we find such an easy target with a different perspective.

And I must say, a few years back I was quite rabid in my hatred of religion in general.

It is unfortunate that religions tend to attract nutters now and then. And mroe unfortunate that those particular nutters have, in the past, gathered other nutters and gone on massive killing sprees. On the other hand, nutters are nutters and do nutty things anyway. Like the mess in Rwanda a while back. I'm reasonably certain that was racially/politically motivated rather than religious. I wish both divisions of humanity could be forgotten, left behind us.
 
Actually, Dan1123

Ignoring Tony1 has no real effect. After a while, we get tired of scrolling through his posts. After all, 2100+ posts and perhaps four relevant points in a little over a year?

It's a cumulative effect, Dan.

After 2100 posts he has nothing much to offer, so every once in a while we like to encourage him to do something useful. Or just tell him to go jump ....

Heck, I figured that sometime before 2100 posts his fellow Christians would have undertaken their obligation to not let one of their brethren walk on an erroneous path.

Many Christians show their love by witnessing to the infidels. This is, in its own, noble enough. But if you do not feed the body of Christ with knowledge, and do not slake the thirsts of those lost in the desert, if you do not witness to your very own brethren trapped in the prison of sin ....?

A few have tried, but the challenges the Lord put before them proved too great.

So every once in a while we have to rattle his cage and remind him that he's the only one locking the cell door.

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:
 
Re: Tony1's Bible quotes

For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
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Gut who wrote that crap. I've read more interesting material from 9 year olds.
Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
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Now it's not even making sense. Don't most questions end with a "?".
For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
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That's just bad grammar. We no be dead!
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
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Now it's talking in circles. Alas if they had been exposed to Homer they might have written a superior story.
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
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That's just redundant.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
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Imagine how much thinking went into that one.:rolleyes:
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
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Guess these people didn't have the technology to mount two sticks with a rooster. I would have thought that some intelligence would have been imparted through Greek contact.
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
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And we must believe you because you say so. Everytime I remember seeing a natural body removed from the ground what is left still looks natural to me.
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
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That's just disgusting. Night of the living dead only with more decay. Are you ignorant because you are religious or religious because you are ignorant?

I know we must view the book in light of the backward culture that borned them. This does not excuse the bible that was created 400-500 years after superior Greek works.
 
I just nee to ask this one more time:

Why do you Christians trust the Bible so much when there are over 100 contradictions in it?

I guess the more appropriate question should be How can you trust it?????????
 
Why do you Christians trust the Bible so much when there are over 100 contradictions in it?

Because it's all they've got.
 
It is because either the "contradictions" are not really contradictions, or they are not essential to the message. Were two angels or one at Jesus' tomb after He was raised? Did the fig tree wither instantly or did it take several days? Did Solomon have 30,000 sheep or 40,000? Does any of that matter?

Also, there are plenty of people who believe that the KJV is exactly literal for today. "Thou shalt not kill" or "You should not murder"? Both are translations from the original but the meaning is significantly different to today's english speaker. Lastly, some think that God is okay with everything that happens in the Bible. These "contradictions" are the misunderstanding of the reader, and not the problem of the text.
 
That's not the point. It doesn't matter if the contradictions impact the message or not, the fact is they are there. How can any stable kind of religion be formed from a single book pockmarked with holes and cracks? It can't, which is why there is no one stable religion. This is why there are so many different religions, each with their own set of beliefs, and this is one of the reasons why I don't believe any of it.
 
It is very essential and important to understand that there are contradictions in the Bible. Christians consider the Bible as "The Word" and the Truth. How can it be when there are so many contradictions and lies? That should be the main concern. How can you rely on a message when you get a completely different throughout each Book?

Here are some contradictions to Ponder:


Should we Kill?

Exodus 20:13 "Thou shalt not kill."
vs.
Exodus 32:27 "Thus sayeth the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, . . . and slay every man his brother, . . . companion, . . . neighbor."


Should we tell lies?

Proverbs 12:22 "Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord."
vs.
I Kings 22:23 "The Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee."


Should we steal?

Exodus 20:15 "Thou shalt not steal."
vs.
Exodus 3:22 "And ye shall spoil the Egyptians."


Does God change his mind?

Malachi 3:6 "For I am the Lord; I change not."
vs.
Genesis 6:6,7 "And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth . . . And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth . . . for it repenteth me that I have made him."


Is God good or evil?

Psalm 145:9 "The Lord is good to all."
vs.
Isaiah 45:7 "I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things."


Does God tempt people?

James 1:13 "Let no man say . . . I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man."
vs.
Genesis 22:1 "And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham."


Was Jesus Peaceable?

John 14:27 "Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you."
vs.
Luke 22:36 "Then said he unto them, . . . he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."


Shall we call people names?

Matthew 5:22 "Whosoever shall say Thou fool, shall be in danger of hellfire." [Jesus speaking]
vs.
Matthew 23:17 "Ye fools and blind." [Jesus speaking]


How many Gods are there?

Deuteronomy 6:4 "The Lord our God is one Lord."
vs.
Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image."


How about when Jesus thought there was figs on the tree and it wasn't the season, yet Jesus is God the all knowing.


The List goes on and on.......
You have to realize that these contradictions are essential. It may not be that important to you because you are a Chistian and obviously overlook them. But someone like me on the other hand that is open minded and not Bias will notice that Truth could never come from contradictions. You most likely practice this same law in your everyday life but when it comes to the Bible it is convienently disregarded.

Peace
 
The Bible can be made to saw whatever you want. I have a thread showing God ask us to use Pot even...lol..it is in the Bible and I like that part
 
Originally posted by Cris
Myfly,

Good start.

Firstly the old idea that seeing-is-believing is generally considered false. The senses can often be easily deceived and cannot be trusted. Truths lie in independent (of the senses) experimentation, measurements, and observations. Without these you won’t know if what you think is truth is actually truth.

Naturally your beliefs in being born again, your claimed relationship with JC, and your alleged witnessing of supernatural events, will be all be the result of emotional indoctrination. I suspect you have been told to depend entirely on faith and that reason is a real danger and must be ignored.

In effect you have surrendered your intellect to a belief in irrational mythologies, superstitions, and fantasies.

How’s that for a start?

Cris
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I'm gonna have to say that's ridiculous. Witnessing an exorcism is as plain as day. I heard the demon's voice, I saw the marks appear on the woman, and there were no hallucinogens in my system.

You are telling me that all the evidence I've seen is all false? It's all doctored up by my imagination? Wow, that's pretty thick-headed. Someone tells you what they have personally witnessed, and you still can't seem to understand that sometimes you can be wrong. You are so intrenched in your belief that there is no God that you cannot fathom the thought that someone has a personal relationship with Jesus Christ our Lord. I talk to God on a daily basis...there were times the voice was actually audible, is this all my imagination? God could appear right before you and you'd still have doubts. I find this very amusing.

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Ugh...I keep forgetting to check back and read all the replies so everything piled up on me. And to be honest, I don't have the energy or the willpower to respond to everyone asking the same question over again.

I know how these things go. Someone asks something, I respond...then they disagree...then I say "Fine"...then someone else comes along and says the same thing only stated more rudely...then I give the same answer....then they rehash what they just said....so I give the same answer....then 5 more people jump in and say the same thing as before...and I give 5 more people the answer.....then 10 more people say the same thing only filled with insults and personal attacks....then I say the same thing, but at this point I'm getting a little tired and aggravated....

Yeah, I think I'll just bow out of this place. I don't have the time to argue the same thing over and over again.

If someone is genuinely curious about my faith, feel free to e-mail me at "mcflytrap@hotmail.com" and I will try to answer their questions the best I can.

So that's all for me. Good luck!

-mcfly-
 
Well, you are the one that asked to be flamed. Also, this isn't the first time a Christian has ran away from my questions. It is becoming a typical Christians response. I am getting used to it. This is a message board, why would we debate through email? Most of these question are legitimate, it is obvious to me that you are just turning your cheek.
 
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