If there were a just God

[earth]

I was not saying they could not I was just pointing out that it is a crock o shit as the way it is writen stay in context here they way it is writen it surely say one day not one creation day not one god like day just a day.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I agree.

I don't find a secret meaning to the term "a day". "A day" in context as it was written meant 24 hours from one day to the next.

The thing I find interesting is people didn't have a calender yet understood the meaning of 1 week, too.

 

[lightgigantic]

Actuall that was already set before the Higher court in Canada and that uis indeed allowable if you are in the need of releiving your self.

Great.

Now try doing an experiment where you relieve yourself exclusively on the police station floor for a 3 month period and get back to us with your observations of force vs free will in everyday society

The point being is you say you have free will to follow god well no you dont as if you dont follow his rules to the letter well unless you are catholic then there is a grey area there then you will indeed burn in hell.

Even if one accepts catholicism as the pinnacle of all theistic claims, one still has the free will to say yay or nay (although the notion of eternal hell might serve as a good argument to suggest otherwise ...). The point is that just because there a consequences to free will in no way impedes it. IOW free will is the ability to choose what you want, not get away from the consequences of what you have chosen.

 

[earth]

Now try doing an experiment where you relieve yourself exclusively on the police station floor for a 3 month period and get back to us with your observations of force vs free will in everyday society

The problem I find in the creation story with Adam and Eve's fall from grace is God didn't fix anything. Instead he added to the mistake? Are you adding to a mistake by explaining free will that way?

 

[lightgigantic]

The problem I find in the creation story with Adam and Eve's fall from grace is God didn't fix anything. Instead he added to the mistake? Are you adding to a mistake by explaining free will that way.

Its not clear what was added to the mistake

 

[earth]

Its not clear what was added to the mistake

Nothing was fixed, instead it got worse.

 

[lightgigantic]

Nothing was fixed, instead it got worse.

still not clear what you are trying to say

what got worse?

 

[(Q)]

I guess that's part of the package deal of free will

It would appear then that the free will package deal is exactly the same as no gods at all. Sort of like gravity being equivalent to acceleration, one is indistinguishable from the other. One can offer the perception of the other.

certainly beats having no free will don't you think?

I couldn't agree with you more. Your god creates enough evil on earth, who needs to be sent to hell in exchange for the free will to not believe in him?

 

[earth]

still not clear what you are trying to say

what got worse?

I"m talking about the curse of sin and death that happened in the garden of eden, supposedly. And carried generation after generation by all mankind. Fixing something is better than cursing.

 

[lightgigantic]

It would appear then that the free will package deal is exactly the same as no gods at all. Sort of like gravity being equivalent to acceleration, one is indistinguishable from the other. One can offer the perception of the other.

Its not clear exactly what you are saying about free will.

Just as gravity is indistinguishable from acceleration (whatever that means) free will is indistinguishable from ...x... (???)

I couldn't agree with you more. Your god creates enough evil on earth, who needs to be sent to hell in exchange for the free will to not believe in him?

For as long as one doesn't see a connection between action and consequences, I guess that's reasonable ....

 

[lightgigantic]

I"m talking about the curse of sin and death that happened in the garden of eden, supposedly. And carried generation after generation by all mankind. Fixing something is better than cursing.

I see

So you are of the opinion that the only reason we are currently existing in the medium of birth, death, old age and disease is that we have a (apparent) biological connection with adam and eve. Kind of like the great great great grandchild of a criminal taking the wrap, yes?

 

[earth]

I see

So you are of the opinion that the only reason we are currently existing in the medium of birth, death, old age and disease is that we have a (apparent) biological connection with adam and eve. Kind of like the great great great grandchild of a criminal taking the wrap, yes?

If the story were true then yes its like punishing your children because of your mistakes.

People expect God to fix things for them, however, when looking at the creation story God didn't fix the mistake Adam and Eve made. Instead God added to their mistake by cursing them. Thereby my conclusion is it's better to fix things than curse and make it worse.

Speaking about a biological connection with adam and eve, my conclusion is there wasn't any adam and eve. We know a person's blood type doesn't change. If eve was made from a bone taken from adam then they would have the same blood type. Consequently all humans would have the same blood type. We know that isn't the fact so neither is adam nor eve a fact.

 

[786]

Oh so it was a Lit fart from God then I dot recall that in the text but if you say so. And BTW very Christian of you to swear as well. No I am not say that litgh come ONLY from the sun the Bible says it was light and iut was a day a single day in the context of the words it means single day we know a day as 24 hours sun up to sun up a day a single day. Have I said Day enough for you to clue in it was a day. It was not back in the day he created light it was a day ok a single solitary day.

Ok... sorry for the swearing.... Anyways....

So if light exists then the 'day is' 24hrs?

Does light exist at Jupiter-- is the day in jupiter 24hrs?

Does light exist in the Universe- how long is universal day?

You do understand that 24hr day is determined by the orbit- and quite frankly has nothing to do with light? We have long 'days' in summer and small nights-- does that change the day from being 24hrs? No because it is dependent upon our orbit... so again you're missing a major piece which we use to determine the length of a 'day' of any planet.

Peace be unto you

 

[Grim_Reaper]

I'm not disagreeing with you, I agree.

I don't find a secret meaning to the term "a day". "A day" in context as it was written meant 24 hours from one day to the next.

The thing I find interesting is people didn't have a calender yet understood the meaning of 1 week, too.

Why is that so hard to understand it is a cycle of time is all it is and it took millions of years for people to realize this it was not a Devine intervention just man getting samrter and needing a way to monitor time is all it is.

 

[Grim_Reaper]

Great.

Now try doing an experiment where you relieve yourself exclusively on the police station floor for a 3 month period and get back to us with your observations of force vs free will in everyday society


Even if one accepts catholicism as the pinnacle of all theistic claims, one still has the free will to say yay or nay (although the notion of eternal hell might serve as a good argument to suggest otherwise ...). The point is that just because there a consequences to free will in no way impedes it. IOW free will is the ability to choose what you want, not get away from the consequences of what you have chosen.

I am not saying that free will is a bad thing all I am saying is someone that says you can do what every you want to do as long as you do it my way no bending one way or the other is a dictator. And you will argue back that no laws are right like that and we have to follow the laws. And I say that is true however you are leaving out the part of God is ALL WAYS WATCHING. Seems like Big Bother to me and that was how Russia was until recent years and well look how that worked out. God if one even existed is a self absorbed controlling ego maniac. In todays terms he would be considered war criminal for all the shit that he himself started. As I said if he did truly exist which he does not and therefore the discussion if if it was a Just god or not is moot.

 

[Grim_Reaper]

Ok... sorry for the swearing.... Anyways....

So if light exists then the 'day is' 24hrs?

Does light exist at Jupiter-- is the day in jupiter 24hrs?

Does light exist in the Universe- how long is universal day?

You do understand that 24hr day is determined by the orbit- and quite frankly has nothing to do with light? We have long 'days' in summer and small nights-- does that change the day from being 24hrs? No because it is dependent upon our orbit... so again you're missing a major piece which we use to determine the length of a 'day' of any planet.

Peace be unto you

Yes I am fully aware of why we have days of about 24 hours in length And no I am not talking about any other planet or universe or demension here. The bible talks of the earth and you your self have said that the earth day is 24 hours. So why you argueing that it was different as it was not clearly. And as I poseted Pior to this keep to the context of what the Bible says ok. and it clearly says one day which on earth is 24 hours give or take.

 

[hay_you]

God has the power to eliminate evil and doesn't. That makes him evil. Mankind isn't responsible for all that is evil, nature is too. God made diseases that only inflict people, diseases that kill innocent people. That also makes him evil.

OK .. I do understand the way you think on this, I thought the same at one time. And I certainly don't like the way the world is now.
But there is really a bigger picture on this.
Satan and man chose not to be loyal to God. Even though they had everything, even perfection. Now if they were still perfect they would never die, the diseases we have now may not affects us, but the way man treats other men, would be with us for ever. This world would be just a scary place to live, with men hunting men until nobody would be left. With no hope of correction. Now if God just got rid of ones that didn't want to follow him, that would not answer the question, to the other creation ( the angles) that people wan tot serve God , because they appreciate life and the other creations God did. ( like the animals the universe etc. ) So God had to let this world go to the brink of destruction, to let this question be answered once for all time. He set a date when he would step in , and that date is set. He does not change that. We are not told when exactly that date is, but we were given signs what to look for. When he does step in , things will go back to perfection over time. So then it is over with. So the world we see today is with out following God, perfect and able to live forever with sickness without wars, without all thebad we see today. The bible even says this what we have now is not the real life. But this can only work , with people that want it. So it really comes down to heart condition ( attitude).

 

[Dywyddyr]

to the other creation ( the angles)

Non anguli, sed angeli!

 

[hay_you]

I am not saying that free will is a bad thing all I am saying is someone that says you can do what every you want to do as long as you do it my way no bending one way or the other is a dictator. And you will argue back that no laws are right like that and we have to follow the laws. And I say that is true however you are leaving out the part of God is ALL WAYS WATCHING. Seems like Big Bother to me and that was how Russia was until recent years and well look how that worked out. God if one even existed is a self absorbed controlling ego maniac. In todays terms he would be considered war criminal for all the shit that he himself started. As I said if he did truly exist which he does not and therefore the discussion if if it was a Just god or not is moot.

Think of God as a loving parent not a big brother. He only wants the best for you., that is shown by his not just wiping us all out. Which he could have done.
It is more like he says to us now, OK things aren't good right now, I will allow Satan to test out his taunt to me , and you, it will be proven that some will follow me and not him. Then you will receive everlasting life, in perfect conditions.
It seems to me even people in science , would be thrilled at this becasue you could learn, directly, how all of this was done. Talk about the real science. Also the bible only goes to the end of Gods rest day. After that more creation is possible, and space travel, and the spreading of life throughout the universe maybe possible ( we are not told what will happen at that time but things like this maybe possible.) The bible only goes to Jesus handing back the earth to God in a state , that God's purpose is fulfilled. So in the end all of this did not change any of God's purpose and in the correct time period. But just as the bible says most people will not want it.
Satan and then Adam are the real cause of this mess, if Adam had stayed with God this would never have happened.
It is just like if you have a son. You want the best for him, you don't wipe him out, becasue he made some mistakes growing up. Your son may have consequences for his actions, and may suffer for a time. You have to give him that time, to make mistakes. But if the bad conduct continues, there is a point where you have cut your ties with your son. Some people call this tough love. You can't let this son ruin the rest of your family. But you do have to give him some time.

 

[786]

Yes I am fully aware of why we have days of about 24 hours in length And no I am not talking about any other planet or universe or demension here. The bible talks of the earth and you your self have said that the earth day is 24 hours. So why you argueing that it was different as it was not clearly. And as I poseted Pior to this keep to the context of what the Bible says ok. and it clearly says one day which on earth is 24 hours give or take.

Wow! I'm amazed at how you're going in circles.

First you say you 'KNOW' how you determine 24hr day- You need the Sun for This!

Yes we're talking about the Earth- but we're also talking about CREATION! Everything wasn't made yet, at least NOT the Sun- so the Day can't possibly be 24hr here, even though we're talking about the Earth..

Does the Earth have an iron core? Yes
Did it always? NO!!!

So Earth is not a 'constant'- If we have a 24hr day now doesn't mean if always had it. And to exclude the fact that the 24hr day is dependent upon the Sun is quite ridiculous.

You are taking present conditions, for example a 24hr Day, and applying that back at the time of when everything began... This is taking things out of historical context and failing to accept that. If you know that the Earth 24hr day is dependent on Earth- the you must know that then without the Sun there is no 24hr day.

Peace be unto you

 

[spidergoat]

OK .. I do understand the way you think on this, I thought the same at one time. And I certainly don't like the way the world is now.
But there is really a bigger picture on this.
Satan and man chose not to be loyal to God. Even though they had everything, even perfection. Now if they were still perfect they would never die, the diseases we have now may not affects us, but the way man treats other men, would be with us for ever. This world would be just a scary place to live, with men hunting men until nobody would be left. With no hope of correction. Now if God just got rid of ones that didn't want to follow him, that would not answer the question, to the other creation ( the angles) that people wan tot serve God , because they appreciate life and the other creations God did. ( like the animals the universe etc. ) So God had to let this world go to the brink of destruction, to let this question be answered once for all time. He set a date when he would step in , and that date is set. He does not change that. We are not told when exactly that date is, but we were given signs what to look for. When he does step in , things will go back to perfection over time. So then it is over with. So the world we see today is with out following God, perfect and able to live forever with sickness without wars, without all thebad we see today. The bible even says this what we have now is not the real life. But this can only work , with people that want it. So it really comes down to heart condition ( attitude).

Maybe God should show fucking himself in some unambiguous way, they he wouldn't have people doubting him all the time. The fact that he must know his non-appearance is an issue, and yet demands faith with no evidence means that he is either non-existent or evil.