If there is a soul what does it do in an afterlife

[Sauna]

If you are the Word as He is the Word you will recognize the truth when you hear it....

Everything is truth.

If it happens it happens.

Delusion is truth, the truth of delusion, meaning what?

Somebody else takes a different view of it.

Recognition is conditioned. If we don't know what to look for we don't expect to find it, so what then does a soul seek of an afterlife? Does it look around for something familiar?

I don't know because nobody ever told me what to want of an afterlife. Where is the menu?

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Define "objective"

Verified / Verifiable by reality

 

[Crunchy Cat]

This is all I can give you...

A simple 'No' would have sufficed.

 

[TheVisitor]

A simple 'No' would have sufficed.

I never said "No"....I don't have any evidence.
I tried to explain in my last post how close it would be
------------------------
"But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, [even] those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. "
-----------------------

Above is just one reference to the process it takes to tell the difference.
What are you looking for as evidence?
A man with nail scars?
Someone casting out demons, healing the sick.

If you don't have your senses exercised in spiritual discernment, these things will decieve you.
I could have pointed you to the supernateral but I didn't because that isn't definitive.

Instead I showed you how that can happen and still be a deception.

What I'm saying is anything can be counterfeited and duplicated, anything God has here you could use for proof.....

The false anointed I told you about can use God's Spirit to perform signs and wonders.

Only by the Word can you rightly divide the two spirits and by God's Spirit discern and withstand the antichrist spirit in this day.

 

[KennyJC]

I had a feeling Sarkus' post would be ignored. You always learn what types of posts get ignored by people like LG and TheVisitor.

 

[lightgigantic]

Special thanks to Kenny

Do animals (other than Homo Sapiens) have souls?
All animals?
Microbes?
Did Neanderthals?
What about Homo Erectus?

All life has a soul

At what point in the evolutionary chain did our soul evolve?

the soul is eternal - it changes, or evolves through bodies (ie leaves one type of body to b elevated/degraded to a subsequent one

How many souls are there? (if it is only Homo Sapiens that have souls - then it can't be more than 100 Billion or so at the moment).

practically an infinite number - what to speak of this material universe, souls exist in the spiritual world

Do intelligent alien life-forms have souls?
Non-intelligent alien life?
Plants?

If it has life it has a soul ( a chair does not have a soul - unless of course you are sitting on a rhinocerous or something)

 

[KennyJC]

Special thanks to Kenny


All life has a soul

the soul is eternal - it changes, or evolves through bodies (ie leaves one type of body to b elevated/degraded to a subsequent one

practically an infinite number - what to speak of this material universe, souls exist in the spiritual world

If it has life it has a soul ( a chair does not have a soul - unless of course you are sitting on a rhinocerous or something)

Oh my god, that's just so funny.

Your best post in a while LG! Although your ending needs a bit of work... I suggest you add: '...and all the kings horses, and all the kings men couldn't put Humpty together again'.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

I never said "No"....I don't have any evidence.
I tried to explain in my last post how close it would be
------------------------
"But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, [even] those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. "
-----------------------

Above is just one reference to the process it takes to tell the difference.
What are you looking for as evidence?
A man with nail scars?
Someone casting out demons, healing the sick.

If you don't have your senses exercised in spiritual discernment, these things will decieve you.
I could have pointed you to the supernateral but I didn't because that isn't definitive.

Instead I showed you how that can happen and still be a deception.

What I'm saying is anything can be counterfeited and duplicated, anything God has here you could use for proof.....

The false anointed I told you about can use God's Spirit to perform signs and wonders.

Only by the Word can you rightly divide the two spirits and by God's Spirit discern and withstand the antichrist spirit in this day.

I think the problem might be that it's not understood what evidence is. Let me explain this by example. If I make a claim that 'computers exist', I can provide evidence for my claim by producing an instance of a computer. This is important because producing an instance of something means that reality is verifying the claim.

Now, take a 'Soul' for example. Can you produce an instance of it?

 

[lightgigantic]

I think the problem might be that it's not understood what evidence is. Let me explain this by example. If I make a claim that 'computers exist', I can provide evidence for my claim by producing an instance of a computer. This is important because producing an instance of something means that reality is verifying the claim.

Now, take a 'Soul' for example. Can you produce an instance of it?

How did we get to "what is the evidence for the soul"?

I thought the OP established that IF there is a soul, WHAT does it do in an afterlife

 

[lightgigantic]

Oh my god, that's just so funny.

Your best post in a while LG! Although your ending needs a bit of work... I suggest you add: '...and all the kings horses, and all the kings men couldn't put Humpty together again'.

Thank you for your advice - I will try and remember to quote nursery rhymes and other such bodies of knowledge you are familiar with in the future

 

[rjr6]

I think the problem might be that it's not understood what evidence is. Let me explain this by example. If I make a claim that 'computers exist', I can provide evidence for my claim by producing an instance of a computer. This is important because producing an instance of something means that reality is verifying the claim.

Now, take a 'Soul' for example. Can you produce an instance of it?

Crunchy, can you produce an instance of the cause behind 'gravity', or for lack of a better word, an instance of a 'graviton'. Gravity can be measured and predicted, accurately, and is called a 'universal force of nature'. So we measure the effect and predict it's force, but have yet to know 'what' it is.
Does that interest you as much as not being able to weigh or measure a soul? The definition of a soul, I read, is basically a fundamental force of life.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

How did we get to "what is the evidence for the soul"?

I thought the OP established that IF there is a soul, WHAT does it do in an afterlife

The Visitor went into an off-topic fantasy land and I pursued the fiction.

 

[Sauna]

How did we get to "what is the evidence for the soul"?

I thought the OP established that IF there is a soul, WHAT does it do in an afterlife

Obviously, the soul in the afterlife is primarily concerned to know of it exists, or not as the case may be,
in Earth, as it is in Heaven.

Perhaps there's a forum there to discuss if there was a before life.

Or is this already the afterlife except that I dozed off during the interval?

 

[glaucon]

No.

Negated by the above.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Crunchy, can you produce an instance of the cause behind 'gravity', or for lack of a better word, an instance of a 'graviton'.

Nope.

Gravity can be measured and predicted, accurately, and is called a 'universal force of nature'. So we measure the effect and predict it's force, but have yet to know 'what' it is.

Correct.

Does that interest you as much as not being able to weigh or measure a soul? The definition of a soul, I read, is basically a fundamental force of life.

I'm quite interested in gravity and know alot of the theories concerning what it might be. Time will ultimately tell which one (if any) or correct or on track.

Human sentience appears to be an objective effect. Humans can modify the effect with brain damage, psychotropic drugs, psychodellic drugs, blood flow alteration, electrical stimulation, etc. and can even utterly destroy it with a little too much brain damage, death, etc. That's pretty good supportive evidence that the cause of sentience is the human brain and to date there is no contradictory evidence to this notion. Of course it's a theory and I'll speculate that it will eventually be outright proven.

Of course humans have nowhere near as much control and insight into gravity. We know it exists and the objective data collected from experimentation has led to alot of sound and untested theories.

To claim that a soul exists is a combination assertion of truth:

1) All objective evidence supporting that sentience is an effect of the brain is incorrect. In other words, reality is outright wrong.
2) There exists some nebulous life force that gives rise to sentience in humans. It is fact... not hypothesis... not theory... but real fact... absolute truth... law of the universe.

Fortunately I have the utmost 'faith' that what reality says is 'true' is in fact 'true'. It never lies.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Obviously, the soul in the afterlife is primarily concerned to know of it exists, or not as the case may be,
in Earth, as it is in Heaven.

Perhaps there's a forum there to discuss if there was a before life.

Or is this already the afterlife except that I dozed off during the interval?

I envision a collection of souls on the 'other side' using a spirtual internet and debating whether or not 'physical body's' exist. Some souls claim that they do and other souls are asking for evidence.

 

[TheVisitor]

I envision a collection of souls on the 'other side' using a spirtual internet and debating whether or not 'physical body's' exist. Some souls claim that they do and other souls are asking for evidence.

Good one, that's funny....Actually on "the other side" they are waiting for us to catch the vision.....and get with the program, because as soon as we get this thing done, they came come back and join us.
"They without us are not made perfect"

(1)
I think the problem might be that it's not understood what evidence is.

(2)
If I make a claim that 'computers exist', I can provide evidence for my claim by producing an instance of a computer.

(3)
This is important because producing an instance of something means that reality is verifying the claim.

(4)
Now, take a 'Soul' for example. Can you produce an instance of it?

(1)Let me get this straight.......your saying you don't understand what evidence is - in relation to the soul?

(2)We aren't talking about computers or cars or candy bars for that mater....of course you could show me those because they are "tangible" items.
How about the non-tangible.

(3)All you can show me for the existence of those non-tangible items is the effect they have on other things that are tangible.
Can you shown me Love?.....Kindness?.......Joy?
Sell me a nickle's worth if you can.
Put it in a bottle so I can see it....
I want proof

(4)Same with the soul.
Are you going to say that Love does not exist ?
Of course your not.
But you seriously want to continue this line of reasoning?
You can't prove Love exists or doesn't exist, but you want me to prove there is a soul....ok.
Intangible forces like love can only be observed by the effect they have on the tangible.

You take that for proof all the time.
Don't astronomers see the effects of planetary bodies on other celestial objects long before they actually see the planetary bodies themselves.
Thats how they know where to focus their telescopes to look for a new planet.

Thats all the proof of the existence of the soul I'm going to give you here.
Actually, just between us now...I already gave you the answer in my previous two posts.
The proof of the soul is the effects it has on you in this dimension.

Don't try to tell anyone though once you see it, because ...let me tell you a little secret.
No one but a "soul" will believe you.

"Catch my soul, catch the very light.
Hide the moment from my eager eye.
Though you've seen them, please don't tell a soul.
What you can't see, can't be very whole."

If I was to use the example Jesus laid out for me to follow in the scriptures...
I wouldn't answer you at all, but ask you another question.

He was intentionally evasive when people asked him obstinate questions.
If you think about it I could just be doing that same thing to you.....but I'm not entirely, because I'm not entirly sure you really don't want to know.

And they spake unto him, saying, Tell us, by what authority doest thou these things? or who is he that gave thee this authority?

And he answered and said unto them, I will also ask you one thing; and answer me:
The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men?
And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say, Why then believed ye him not?
But and if we say, Of men; all the people will stone us: for they be persuaded that John was a prophet.
And they answered, that they could not tell whence [it was].
And Jesus said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things.

 

[Sauna]

You can't prove Love but you want me to prove there is a soul.

Not quite.

Knowing that we all know from our own experience what would never be provable to anybody else I'd be grateful enough to be pointed in the right direction, but as yet I see no direction which was not yet already tried and failed.

Why then this difference?

Intangible forces like love can only be observed by the effect they have on the tangible.

"Love" may vaguely describe various aspects of life, as would "soul" but it seems to me that the symptoms of love are several degrees more definite than those of soul. While love is described in chemical and biological terms, I see nothing so sure for "soul".

Off hand I find it impossible to think of any use of "soul" that could not alternatively be described as love or in psychological terms, let alone the hope to discern the tangible effect of the afterlife before the event.

What is the test, what distinghuishes a person with soul as compared to the Philosophical Zombie?

 

[TheVisitor]

Not quite.

Knowing that we all know from our own experience what would never be provable to anybody else I'd be grateful enough to be pointed in the right direction, but as yet I see no direction which was not yet already tried and failed.

Why then this difference?



"Love" may vaguely describe various aspects of life, as would "soul" but it seems to me that the symptoms of love are several degrees more definite than those of soul. While love is described in chemical and biological terms, I see nothing so sure for "soul".

Off hand I find it impossible to think of any use of "soul" that could not alternatively be described as love or in psychological terms, let alone the hope to discern the tangible effect of the afterlife before the event.

What is the test, what distinghuishes a person with soul as compared to the Philosophical Zombie?

The Word Test.

You know the answer......but what is the question, Sauna?
It's the question that drives us.
You can feel it, somethings not right with the world.
You got the question right.

Nobody else has so far.

What is the test, what distinghuishes a person with a soul as compared to a person without a soul?

The answer is you were driven to ask the question....the others really weren't.

They just want to prove a point, debate.....vain philosophical knowledge.
A real soul wants to see God.

The movie "The Matrix" was inspired as a christian allegory.
That part was so close it sent chills down my spine when I saw it.
I'm not playing with you...that is part of the answer.

The proof of the soul is the effects it has on you in this dimension.
You are represented there by a soul that not only comes from God.
But it is God.
As a child of His, you are like a gene waiting to be brought to life and manifest what's been inside you all along.

ROMANS 8:19 " For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. "

You are God, and God is the Word...1 John 1:1-14
You can't be deceived, because you are the Word.
You will pass the Word test.

"All the world, whose names are not written on the Lamb's Book of Life (The Bible)....from before the foundation of the world, will be deceived and worship the image of the beast".
The beast in the beginning is the beast at the end.
It's the spirit in the carnal mind of man, the fleshly nature that is at war with the Holy Spirit of God.

And the two spirits are so close here at the end, no one will be able to tell them apart, except the very "elect" of God.
By the Word test.
Only by your revelation of the Word, can you seperate the two spirits in the end time now, and discern the anti-christ spirit and overcome it.
It is written, it is written, It is written.
Thats how our example did it.

Thats how man fell from God, by leaving God's Word, and man will go back to God, by every Word.
"Man shall live by every Word that proceedeth from the mouth of God"...remember?
And "the mouthpeice of God" in the scriptures is a prophet.

Satan can impersonate every evidence that God can show.......healing, tongues, casting out devils, love, emotions, shouting, dancing in the spirit, ect....

I said earlier the Holy Spirit is poured out upon all flesh.
The parable of the wheat and the tares.
The rain falls on the just and unjust alike.

This is to bring them both to the harvest.
It will manifest the false anointed ones....revealing the "man of sin".
Not the false anointing now, it's the genuine Holy spirit falling on both the wheat, the children of the light...and the tares, the children of the world.
But it's the person that is false from the core.

"Because they received not a love of the truth, I will send them strong delusion, that they should beleive a lie and be damned by it"

Satan's minister can transform into angels of light.
They can by the Spirit anointing of God, impersonate anything that God has except.....

They can't bring the Word, word by word perfectly without adding to or taking something away.
But it will be so close, only the very elect of God will not be dceived.

Because they are the children of God...The Word.

My Sheep hear my Voice, and anothers they will not follow.

 

[rjr6]

Of course humans have nowhere near as much control and insight into gravity. We know it exists and the objective data collected from experimentation has led to alot of sound and untested theories.

The effects of gravity are known. Where does gravity reside, if it is known to exist?

To claim that a soul exists is a combination assertion of truth:

1) All objective evidence supporting that sentience is an effect of the brain is incorrect. In other words, reality is outright wrong.
2) There exists some nebulous life force that gives rise to sentience in humans. It is fact... not hypothesis... not theory... but real fact... absolute truth... law of the universe.

Fortunately I have the utmost 'faith' that what reality says is 'true' is in fact 'true'. It never lies.

Sentience and consciousness are 'effects' of the soul. That is the crux of the matter, "What is a soul?".