If there is a soul what does it do in an afterlife

Vital,

How and where is all this information stored?
The memories are stored as energy of some type, in essence they are energy, as the mind exists as energy. The process by which the memory is stored I'm unsure of.

Cris said:
The afterlife is assumed to not be material so I’m not sure you are making a point here but it does seem to be in contradiction to your earlier statement of --
But the afterlife is material, how could it not be? After death a new existence is gained, this new existence can be in this world or another. It is like a new dream, a new existence.

Cris said:
The speculation and assumption in the thread topic is of duality and that when the physical body dies the soul continues into an afterlife. Are you suggesting an alternate speculation?
The soul always exists the same, unchanging, eternal.

"One who observes the birth of a tree from its seed and the ultimate death of the tree after maturity certainly remains a distinct observer separate from the tree. In the same way, the witness of the birth and death of the material body remains separate from it." (SB 11.22.50)
 
Cris said:
Where do new new souls come from and how are they created? What is the influence of genetics and hereditary on this mechanism? How is it decided when to create a new soul for a host as opposed to a transfer? What would happen in a nuclear war where most of the world population is killed such that there would be far more dead souls floating around than hosts to take them.

Actually there are countless flaws with this idea, the list could go on.

The host is mortal material body; and the client s/w and associated data , that are being shifted from host to host and thus being controled by main server whenever necessary, could be the continued conscience/soul.
 
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The question as it exists today is whether the NDE is an actual afterlife experience or dying brains mass hallucinating tunnels, light, and being told it isn't time yet. Looking at this from a scientific view, which is somewhat limiting, the only conclusion is that there is no scientific evidence that NDEs are actual afterlife experiences. Perhaps it is impossible to obtain scientific proof short of someone bringing back from a NDE the sandal of Jesus.
 
TheVisitor,

OK but why then do we have physical bodies at all. God doesn't appear to have one and if we are a piece of him why do we need a body?

God has appeared in physical form many times.

When Adam walked with him in the cool of the evening.
Then He appeared in a theophanic form to Abraham several times.
He ate meat and drank milk, and discerned the secrets thoughts in Sarah heart, Abraham's wife.

He came then as Melchesedic, God manifested in flesh.
He just created a body and stepped His theophany into it.
"No mother, no father, no beginning of days or ending of life"

When Jesus came as a man, it was the same God this time in human flesh born of a woman.
There aren't three gods in the godhead - father, son, holy ghost...
Those are offices, like I'm a father, a son, and a human.
Those aren't names, those are titles.

The religious leaders of this day are just the same as they were in the days of His flesh 2000 years ago.
They have overcomplicated His existence and plan for us and oversold their own importance, thinking if they make it all the more confusing we will have to rely upon them.
Do not misunderstand, there is a "five-fold" ministry ordained by God as a gift for all mankind, but they are few and walk by God's Spirit alone, not by the understanding of man's wisdom or receive their commissions by the appointment of men.

God didn't send His Son to save the human race and give His sons' life for humanity....
There are not two Gods, or three Gods, or three personalities in one godhead.

There is one true God.
God came Himself, born of a woman and died for humanity...Himself.

Jesus was Jehovah.
God is a spirit......and the flesh that Spirit created to manifest Himself in was "His Son", and in Him the fullness of God dwelt.
When that Holy Spirit was released through death...It was the same Him being sent back upon Humanity to be like a Father to His children and bring many sons to maturity, and manifest God.
Us.
We are the flesh of God now.
He exists in a many membered body.
His Spirit manifests through us..."if we be led of the Spirit of God, now we are the Sons of God."

When that Spirit has accomplished what It purposed to do , bringing these many sons to maturity, ("For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.") He will take that Spirit back into that flesh called Jesus, now in a immortal glorified state, and return to Earth to reign as the King of a kingdom with those sons and daughters who were led by His Spirit, allowing themselves to be molded by Him reflecting in His image, forged in the fiery trials of affliction during these days.
A new age is coming, and if you have the eyes to see it in your heart, it is already here.

There has been a purpose in all this, and in the Earths future God sits here on the Earth.
No longer separated as He was from man.
He has flesh, real flesh.
And a restored Eden is coming.
We are triune beings....three in one also.
We have a body, a spirit, and a soul.
Think of three concentric rings one inside the other.
The outside ring represents the body, the middle one the human spirit, and the inside one the soul from God.
The Orthodox view for centuries has had this wrong with the human spirit in the center of ones being.
That was incorrect, the soul is at the center, and in it lies one of two things.
Faith, or doubt.

Faith is what has the power to bring heaven into this dimension.
Sin which is doubt in the Word of God, has let Satan rule this world, and sit here as it's god since the fall of man.

"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
And by it we know the worlds were framed by the Word of God, and things which are seen, were made by that which does not appear.
The Soul brings subject the mind, which brings subject the body.....which is made of the Earth, and by the power of Faith then, all things become subject to The Word of God on Earth, as it is in heaven.

Remember the prayer?

Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done, on Earth as it is in Heaven.
Faith is the substance that brings this to pass.
 
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TheVisitor,

You completely missed the point and didn't answer the question. If we are spiritual entities, parts of a spiritual god, why do we ever need bodies?
 
TheVisitor,

You completely missed the point and didn't answer the question. If we are spiritual entities, parts of a spiritual god, why do we ever need bodies?


Thought I did.

Refer to my last post.
 
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Thevisitor,

In an afterlife we have no body so why would we ever need one?

What the heck is the difference between a spirit and a soul? That's not part of the duality concept.
 
Get your idea of afterlife out of your mind.
It isn't spirits floating around somewhere..disembodied.
They are in another body, a celestial body....right now more real than this one.
And someday soon will come here to Earth and receive Earthly bodies.
These are different types of bodies but have substance in their own places or dimensions.

The second you die you are in that one.
"If this earthly tabernacle be disolved, we have one waiting to recive us not made with hands."
 
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You are talking about something else then. This topic thread isn't about a reincarnation concept.
 
Thevisitor,
-What the heck is the difference between a spirit and a soul? That's not part of the duality concept.

-You are talking about something else then. This topic thread isn't about a reincarnation concept.

I'm not talking about anything even remotely like reincarnation.

The difference between the spirit and soul is the soul is that gene that came from God....born in you as a seed, it comes to life, sprouts up and manifests over time with exposure to things in life like light and water, and then matures and grows in strength.
The human spirit is what comes with this flesh when we are born.
Unfortunately contaminated by the fall and it has a "nature" that is actually part of the war against God.
Lucifer's war.

The human spirit is at enmity or war with God.
We as Sons of God are here in this flesh doing battle, overcoming that nature in a learning process.

Ever hear what don't kill us makes us stronger?

By faith we are bringing this dimension subject to that one, taking back inch by inch everything that was ours to begin with that was lost in "the fall".
 
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I amuse myself watching theist jump through hoops on this one! As if they had any notion of what a soul is, where it comes from, wether it exists or not, and if you get hundred theist to participate, you'd get 100 different interpretations of the same subject! ;)

But hey! what ever trips your delusion is fine by me! I at least live in reality, not nethereality.

Cris I bet you would enjoy this;
The Origin Of the Soul
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:...igin+idea+of+a+soul&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=19
 
Godless,

Yes a good link. Interesting that even in this thread we have even more variations. But then that's the nature of human creative imagination.
 
We know the brain is needed for thinking, emotions, and memory so when the body dies and the soul moves to an eternal afterlife what would be its characteristics?

This isn't true, strictly speaking. We know that the brain is involved in thought processes, as well as emotional experiences, which appear causal. Memory too. However, what is unclear, either way, is whether the brain is the only active agent in these processes. I submit that it is not. Since the hypothesis is that there is a soul, I won't go into the question of its existence, but I will say a little about it.

There is a distinction to be made between soul and spirit, as the Visitor indicated. The distinction being that a soul might be said merely to be the life-force of a body, while the spirit is intelligent, free in will and emotional (there are connotations which I bring with this word that perhaps you do not... but I don't think it's important to talk about that right now). However, for the sake of simplicity, I will talk about the human soul as a spiritual soul, eliminating the need to make a separation.

Thus, to talk about the human soul is both to talk about something which gives life to it, but which is also intelligent, free in will, and emotional. So, to the question of whether the brain is necessary for thought, or emotion, or memory, as I have said, I submit that this isn't the case. Rather, it is merely involved, in more ways than one.

Primarily it is the processing center of the information that it receives from the senses of the body. It processes this information, and the information processed is understood by the soul. It is difficult to talk about the soul in the human person, because the human body and the human soul are one, they are a union. Thus, you cannot point to a place on a person and say "there is the soul" and you cannot point to any part on a person's body and say "that is just body, nothing more." If, as I have stated, the human soul (which is spiritual) is the life-force of the body, then we might refer to the electrical impulses which interact in the brain, the energy as being the person's soul. That might be a stretch, I'm not fully sure.

It is the soul wherein consciousness lies, for the human soul is intelligent. From this intelligence proceeds free choice and will, which causes action in the body. In death, the soul is displaced from the body. If the soul is the life-force of the body, the energy, then we might say that it is the energy which is displaced from the dead body.

It would have no memory and hence no identity.

This may be true, but I'm not sure about it yet. The reason I say this is because God is also spiritual, who is intelligent, and who seems to have memory and identity. I don't think I'm out of place by bringing God into the discussion since the hypothesis involves an afterlife. I simply assume we're talking about a Judeo-Christian perspective.

In any case, there is a rift that people don't usually talk about. If we're considering the Judeo-Christian perspective, then we have to include the belief in the Resurrection of the Dead at the end of time. If this is the case, then the answer to your question seems clear. For, if there is a resurrection of the body in the end, then what the soul does in heaven or hell would not be much different than what it does now, since it would once again be united with its body, and brain.

However, the rift which I mentioned is this, and I think it pertains more to your question: what happens to the soul between the death of its body and the resurrection of its body? Well, to answer this question, we might need to hash out another one: Is purgatory real? I suppose we could skip this question, as it is certainly possible to do so with the consideration of Saints, who enter into heaven directly after death.

As I write that last sentence, I realize there are things which still need to be made clear, for, why would there be a difference between a saint going directly to heaven after death and any normal person? The answer to this question lies in the meaning of the word "eternal." The term is a contrary to temporal. Temporal is that which operates by time. Some people might say that the temporal is that which is impermanent. This may be so, but that is only because anything that operates by time operates by change, and change implies impermanence. So, what is temporal is in a constant state of change, and this has to do with motion (and I don't simply mean spacial movement), for whatever is in motion is changing, and whatever is unmoving is also unchanging. However, what is unmoving, though it may not be said to be temporal, may also not be said to be eternal.

The eternal is also unchanging, but it is not unmoving. Rather, it's movement is infinitely fast. So, while the temporal is a sequenced reality, change flowing coherently and fluidly from change into change, the eternal is all change occurring simultaneously, thus being itself unchanging. For, all is at once. It is the infinite, truly holistic.

So, going back to the query of the soul. If every soul directly enters into eternity after death, then they immediately experience the resurrection of their bodies, and there is little more to discuss.

However, if there is a purgatory between death and resurrection, then there is more to discuss. Then the question becomes, what happens to the soul in purgatory, between death and the resurrection? If this weren't an issue, then neither would your questions of a soul's capacity for thought, memory and emotion after it's been separated from it's body. Because, if the soul immediately enters into eternity after death, then it is immediately reunited to its body in the resurrection and the question becomes irrelevant.

However, if there is a purgatory, a time after death whereby the soul is purged of its sinful inclinations and imperfections, then there is a time (whether great or small) that the soul spends displaced from the body. The question is, what can we say about such a soul?

If the time in purgatory is a time spent in purgation, cleansing, then what is the cleansing agent? Is it external or internal? That is, is something, perhaps God, purging the soul, or is the soul itself the active agent? If the purgation is by an external agent, then, once again, your question seems to be answered. The soul, mindless, emotionless, or not, once purged enters into the eternal, and experiences the resurrection, once again united to its body, full again with memories and emotion and mind that it always was.

But what if it is an internal change which must take place in purgatory? Well, if this is the case, then it would seem your answer is once again put to meaninglessness. For, if the change must needs be internal, then the soul must, by necessity, be a conscious, intelligent, freely willing, emotional entity. Otherwise, no change would take place, and there would be a drifting, mindless soul forever lost to meaninglessness (or until the day of resurrection). Naturally, this would render the state of purgation meaningless as no change would be effected in the soul whatsoever.

So, I think what it really boils down to is whether you want to posit a resurrection or not. If you want to eliminate the resurrection, then I would say that the soul would be forever incomplete, imperfect, and in eternal suffering, being disconnected from the body of which is is naturally in union.
 
...You completely missed the point and didn't answer the question. If we are spiritual entities, parts of a spiritual god, why do we ever need bodies?

Excellent point Cris.

There is one school of (spiritual) thought that posits that even the particles that make us physical are also illusionary (maya).

Since beliefs are theories that evolve from either knowledge or subjective experience, I choose to believe that taking physical form (ie having a body) is part of an innate need to create.

It may be part of the human's evolved arrogance to think that we are the highest form of life. Step away from that perspective (with difficulty admittedly) and we may break away from any attachment to the physical form... in which case we would not need 'bodies' per se.
 
Beyond,

I will respond more fully to your post during the week but for now please consider this point where you refer to the role of the brain.

Primarily it is the processing center of the information that it receives from the senses of the body. It processes this information, and the information processed is understood by the soul.

You also refer to the soul as the intelligence.

Just some perspective on brain power; the human brain is approximately equivalent to 20,000 state of the art computers operating in a massive parallel processing system. In terms of raw compute power that is sufficient to run every stock exchange in the world and the core business of every major corporation in the world. And each of us has one of these in our heads. The suggestion that this awesome power is relegated to merely a sensor processing messenger is not credible.
 


I read it and wasn't that impressed.
I've heard theologians do a better job of scrambling the trinity explanation.
Like a shell game with three cups.....and no shell.
They don't have a clue what that is either.

The scriptures do say man's soul is a part of God Himself in many places.

-"The mystery of God, is Christ in you...the hope of glory"

I CORINTHIANS 2:7
But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

II THESSALONIANS 1:10
-When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed ) in that day.

So when did you fall to using texts you oppose to oppose someone's text?
Desperate times have befallen I see.
 
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When you look into your memory, what witnesses the images, sounds, and other sensations that you recall?
 
I read it and wasn't that impressed.

Reality sometimes is not that impressive!


The scriptures do say man's soul is a part of God Himself in many places.

A Platonist idea that been around 800 years before the Hebrews ever wrote the scriptures!

So when did you fall to using texts you oppose to oppose someone's text?
:confused:
 
TheVisitor,

So when did you fall to using texts you oppose to oppose someone's text?
The bible is the atheist's greatest asset against Christianity.
 
TheVisitor,

The bible is the atheist's greatest asset against Christianity.

The misinterpretation of the bible is the atheist's greatest asset against Christianity.
I thought "using texts you oppose to oppose someone's text" sort of had a ring to it.
You got to admit it sounded good.......come on.


Reality sometimes is not that impressive!

Ha, Ha...yeah sometimes.
I guess that's what makes the good parts good.
 
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