If there is a soul what does it do in an afterlife

VitalOne said:
Yeah you do, the belief that neural activity explains everything about consciousness, there's nothing beyond it but neural activity. This is what strict materialists hold. However, most neurologists themselves do not believe this.

Did you just simply invent that last sentence for effect? How do you come to the conclusion that 'most' Neurologists think that conciousness has nothing to do with the brain? Neuroscience is a physical science just like any other, therefor the soul is not a concept I would imagine is endorsed by any majority of reputable neuroscientists.

Why do I feel confident in saying that even though I don't have to bother seeking references? Because concepts of a soul are 'devoid of meaning', baseless and have no relevance to any science. I would be shocked if journals on the immaterial soul were peer reviewed and embraced by consensus in neurology.
 
Sauna,

Is it possible to perceive but not to be apart?
I’m not sure I understand the question.

How do explain an out of the body experience, when somebody floats above themselves and sees their body?

Let me guess.

You are going to dismiss this as hallucination, some sort of a fantasy, right?

Now tell us how you would know that in scientific terms, except for presupposing this to suit your purpose.

Except in terms of the narrative, how do you measure, how do you support hallucination?
None of the claims for such things were ever been conducted or captured under scientific conditions. All we have is subjective stories that cannot be independently verified. Without something more objective then the most credible and reasonable explanation is indeed hallucination.

Why are dreams necessary and what is the evidence of a dream, except that somebody tells you and you have to believe it?

Are the brainwaves and eyeballs going to tell you what the dream was about?
From what I understand based on my readings of how the brain operates, sleeping and dreaming are very necessary activities for maintaining brain health. Based on the measurements of protein levels before and after sleep it was discovered that the synapses in the brain go through significant changes in protein levels. The synapses are the connections between neurons and there are trillions of these connections. During normal wakefulness and brain function the proteins in the synapses are consumed and it was deduced that sleep allowed these protein levels to be replenished. If they weren’t and you stayed awake for long periods then your brain would eventually be unable to function. It is important to understand that any changes to the synapses will result in some degree of random neuron firings. Obviously changing the levels of protein will cause such firings. These random firings are the primary cause of dreams. Note that many dreams tend to include distorted activities from the current day and that should be expected since it was those neurons that were active and whose synapses would need refueling.

Note also that nearly all recreational drugs go directly to the synapses as does nicotine from cigarettes. These drugs will either slow down or speed up or otherwise distort normal synapse activity with the resultant change to neuron firings that will result in dreamlike experiences or hallucinations.

Hope that helps.
 
Cris said:
For all your creatively imaginatve pseudo-mystical fantasies and proposals in the end simple material hard facts will determine our outcomes.

the soul is made of matter/energy.
 
Then it should be a simple matter of measuring it. What method does one use to measure a soul? Is it in grams? Joules? Norvals?
 
the soul is made of matter/energy.

Wow. The same stuff that everything in the universe is made out of. So... how to distinguish it from the vast amount of other things?

I think you are grasping at an ancient concept that has been overturned with vast amounts of recent discoveries. If you damage the brain, it seems that you alter what people used to call a soul. It seems as if the soul changes with time and age, and is susceptible to disease and genetics.

Are you sure you aren't just clinging to a dream of immortality? Your soul didn't exist 120 years ago, and it did a fine job of not existing for 15 billion years, at least. What in the world is wrong with your "soul" not existing again?

As we have seen throughout the history of science and faith... wishing does not make it so. Faith does not create reality.
 
Whether you live your life believing in a structured universe or an unstructured one, with whatever ideology or religious belief you subscribe to, ultimately its your own life to live as you choose. Being intellectually dishonest about what you believe in seems duplicitous to me.

Absolutely not, believing a delusion about gods as a reality is a mental disorder, and there are many people in power, directly and indirectly, who have this mental disorder, hence they should not only not be in power, but should be institutionalized under the care of doctors, that, is, if the intellect is to be brought into the discussion.
 
Absolutely not, believing a delusion about gods as a reality is a mental disorder, and there are many people in power, directly and indirectly, who have this mental disorder, hence they should not only not be in power, but should be institutionalized under the care of doctors, that, is, if the intellect is to be brought into the discussion.

Evidence?
 
why are you not me?

So... how to distinguish it from the vast amount of other things?

we can see lots of things on earth, like rocks, but in "empty space" we can't see anything although there are lots of things there, like invisible beings, invisible planets and galaxies. sometimes the invisible beings that live on earth (in the worlds of 'thoughts') materialize temporarily as ghosts/ufo's/aliens/loch-ness-monsters/etc.

Are you sure you aren't just clinging to a dream of immortality?

my only/greatest 'dream' in life is to be non-existent.
but i don't know if i should dream about something that i think is impossible.

Your soul didn't exist 120 years ago, and it did a fine job of not existing for 15 billion years, at least.

i (consciousness) have always existed, in some form or another.

Faith does not create reality.

it does, but not if you believe it doesn't.
if you believe it doesn't, you use faith to create a reality where faith does not create reality.

however, if it's impossible for consciousness (god) to die, even faith might not make death possible.

(Q) said:
believing a delusion about gods as a reality is a mental disorder,

not believing in them is as much "mental dis-order" as believing in them.

---

when we die, we wake up from the dream.
 
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For your assertion.

There is a lot of material linking delusion to mental illness, if that's what you want?

Admitting that your own god delusion isn't reality is something completely different, sam, and will only be "evident" to you.

Of course, for someone with a god delusion to demand evidence is intellectual dishonesty at it's utmost.
 
There is a lot of material linking delusion to mental illness, if that's what you want?

Admitting that your own god delusion isn't reality is something completely different, sam, and will only be "evident" to you.

Of course, for someone with a god delusion to demand evidence is intellectual dishonesty at it's utmost.

Ah! but I'm demanding evidence for your assertion. For someone who throws around words like delusion, making unsupported assertions is also intellectual dishonesty, wouldn't you say?
 
...making unsupported assertions is also intellectual dishonesty, wouldn't you say?

Exactly the point, sam. Why then, do theists constantly make them? And how is that when evidence is demanded of them, they can do nothing to demonstrate their assertions?

If they cannot show they are not being intellectually dishonest, the only other explanation is mental illness.
 
What is the difference between the soul and spirit? Are they the same thing? I don't know. I was born a Christian and still can't tell what hell the difference is. Do both the soul and spirit go in into the afterlife or just one? I would love for anyone who knows or thinks they know anything about this to shed some light. That would help us better answer the question of what the soul does in the afterlife I think, which is a very intersting topic.

I'm guessing if there is a God or supeme being then the soul simply takes orders from that being for eternity in the afterlife. If there is no God, then I'm not sure what the soul would do.
 
What is the difference between the soul and spirit?

The bounds of ones imagination.

Are they the same thing? I don't know.

They are as same as you wish them to be.

I was born a Christian and still can't tell what hell the difference is.

That's somewhat of a fallacy. Young children, and especially new borns aren't Christians, but are instead the children of Christian parents who indoctrinate them to eventually be Christians. I suspect the time of life those children make their convergences will vary. Quite frankly, they probably don't even know themselves when it happened.

Do both the soul and spirit go in into the afterlife or just one?

They go to wherever your imagination takes them.
 
What is the difference between the soul and spirit? Are they the same thing? I don't know. I was born a Christian and still can't tell what hell the difference is. Do both the soul and spirit go in into the afterlife or just one? I would love for anyone who knows or thinks they know anything about this to shed some light. That would help us better answer the question of what the soul does in the afterlife I think, which is a very intersting topic.

I'm guessing if there is a God or supeme being then the soul simply takes orders from that being for eternity in the afterlife. If there is no God, then I'm not sure what the soul would do.

Spirit comes from spiritus (Latin) which means breath. It is the same root that we find in respirate (to breathe). The greek word for spirit (ie, a person's immortal life-force) was pneuma, which also means breath. It is the same root word that is found in pneumonia (a disease transmitted through respiration). In scriptures, at the creation of humans, God "breathed" life into them. Spirit, classically understood, is the animating principle found in all life.

However, as with the Greek concept of Pneuma, there was also the concept of Soul. This was not seperate from the spirit, and in many cases can be found to be nothing more than a synonym for spirit. In other instances, Soul is synonymous with Person. That is, we can speak about "soulmates" as two persons who are meant to unite with one another. As with Pneuma, the Soul is both the animating principle of living things, but also the human person. In other words, human spirits are also souls.

The thing is, these two words, so synonymous, are often interchanged and used differently by different people at different times to describe different aspects of human life. Thus, the confusion between the two terms. For instance, we may say that after death, the soul enters into eternal life, the soul here referring to the person who has deceased. Yet, in other instances, we might say that we are spiritual creatures, again referring to our personhood. Really, in humans, the animating principle is also personal (that is, has intelligence and free will). Whether you want to call this a soul or a spirit is really irrelivant, for when talking about humans, it's the same thing, just different terms.

This happens a lot, particularly in English. The two terms, spirit and soul, don't originate from the same language. If they did, we might be able to make a deeper distinction between the terms. As it is, they originate from different languages, and so they can easily be understood to be the same thing, even if their meanings have ever-so-slight variations. For all intensive purposes, though, they're synonyms.

There is a different distinction that can be made. Some say that all living things have souls, but not spirits. Moreover, these same people would also say that angels and demons are 'pure spirits,' but would not call them souls. In this regard, the difference is that in one instance, the soul refers to nothing more than the animating principle of life, energy I suppose. In the other instance, spirit refers to personhood, or having intelligence and free will. In this sense, the terms are reversed. However, there is relatively little importance to this. Terms are simply that, terms. Expressions designed to communicate ideas. The generally universal idea about spirits and souls is that they are what animate us, and animals, and angels. The distinction is that in animals, it is an impersonal life-force. In humans, it is a personal one. In angels it is purely person, and does not "animate" matter (well, perhaps not necessarily).

I hope this helps.

On a side note, this principle of animation may actually be the observed energy itself, or something else which makes use of bodily energy. I make this second suggestion because there seems to be something missing when attempting to "energize" an unliving thing. It does not come to life. This may, or may not be accounted by the presence or absence of soul. I can't say. I'm merely making an observation.
 
Exactly the point, sam. Why then, do theists constantly make them? And how is that when evidence is demanded of them, they can do nothing to demonstrate their assertions?

If they cannot show they are not being intellectually dishonest, the only other explanation is mental illness.

Ah but if you cannot prove mental illness, are you gonna take it on faith?:p

Or just start locking people up based on your notions of what is right or wrong?
 
Ah but if you cannot prove mental illness, are you gonna take it on faith?:p

Or just start locking people up based on your notions of what is right or wrong?

There's a difference between accepting things based on sufficient evidence and accepting them on pure faith. And noting that people who engage in faith are, at least in the faith-based subject area, delusional is simple common sense. Look up some definitions of "delusional" to understand that Q is just making a simple factual observation.

Edit: Religion is a socially accepted and reinforced delusion.
 
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