How, in your opinion, can you do this? I mean, if you can prove the non-existence of God, that would be just great. But how is this possible?
I need some answers from Atheists...
- Thread starter ?paradox?
- Start date
First, define god.
Many religious people say you can't define god, he's outside the universe, yadda yadda. But that's a load of bull.
I would define god simply as the creator of the universe.
There are so many arguments against the existance of god I don't even know where to start. And every single argument I have ever seen for the existance of god has been flawed.
Wait, you said how is it possible? How is it not?
Many religious people say you can't define god, he's outside the universe, yadda yadda. But that's a load of bull.
I would define god simply as the creator of the universe.
There are so many arguments against the existance of god I don't even know where to start. And every single argument I have ever seen for the existance of god has been flawed.
Wait, you said how is it possible? How is it not?
Okay, say we define God as the "creator" of the universe. General relativity implies that the universe was not "created" because space and time began at the Big Bang singularity, which in turn implies that a "creator" is not necessary. Then add humanity's tendency to anthropomorphize, which the universe doesn't share. Et cetera, et cetera. So yes, there are a lot of reasons for not believing in God, not the least of which is that there is no evidence for his existence. But you cannot prove the non-existence of God. There is no test you can perform to do this. You can only fail to disprove the non-existence of God. That's the scientific method.
Some good discussion for Atheists
http://www.evidence.info/design/atheismintro.html
http://www.evidence.info/design/atheismintro.html
Straw man argument! The author is equating atheism with belief in multiple universes, a claim that is not scientific in that there is a lack of empirical correlation and testability, and in that such beliefs are without hard physical evidence and must therefore be considered unfalsifiable.First of all, I am an atheist, and I don't subscribe to the theory of multiple big bangs. I limit my beliefs to what can be tested scientifically. I don't know where all the matter in the Big Bang singularity came from. But attributing it to an anthropomorphized concoction (God) is just as unscientific as any other claim for which there is no proof. And no, accepting Jesus Christ into your life and thereby forming a personal relationship with him (a completely subjective experience) is not proof of God's existence.
Using Occam's Razor, the simplest explanation is not that there exists some creator entity whose existence we cannot prove, but that there exists the universe, which is self-creating and self-sustaining.
So God set us up deliberately, knowing we would fail his test, then sets himself to 'redeem' us from himself, so that we'll all thank him for being so cool to us?
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Jesus used this parable to explain.
A seed does not fully manifest what it is ....untill harvest time.
The tares were the "seed of discrepency", the wheat were the "seed of God"....while immature, they jump for joy receiving the same life giving benifits of the same rain (Holy Spirit)
Many plant shoots look alike as these do untill they are come up to a certain point.....
At the harvest time....they will manifest that which they were from the beginning.
You see..... God is not the "father" of all men on earth.
Cain was of his father the wicked one., and his children today are too.
How did this happen? God allowed Satan to "create" his own race on earth.
Satan is given powers equal to God in every way, except the power to create something from nothing.
He took something already created.......a Serpent, an animal which was the closest creature to man, that he could also possess.....for it was just an animal, and breed this creature with Eve....to create his own people.
Should God then, as any father.....be responcible for the actions of children that are not His?.....
He comes to "REDEEM" that which were His.....
Redeem means "to be brought back", or to be "restored" to it's original position.
However God is rich in mercy, but these choose not to follow His Word.
As Cain murdered his brother, so shall these manifest in the end who they are.
They all look alike on the outside today.
God's children will "hear" His Word and receive revelation from thier Father as Abel did.
All creation groaneth in trevail, for the manifestation of the Sons of God.
The others will manifest a Son of Perdition...the seed of discrepency.
Jesus said to His disciples: Have not I chosen you twelve, and yet one of you is a devil.
They themselves knew not whom it was, each in turn asking of Him, "is it I Lord..?, is it I..?
But the seed will at the proper time....manifest that which it is, in every one of us.
This can only happen at the end....in the rising of the Son, when He comes with His holy angels they will seperate all in His kingdom.
The light of the Son of Man being revealed, and the rain of the Holy Spirit will cause the seeds to grow and manifest what they are.
He came to seperate father from mother ect........the Word of God seperates the people. Not miracles or signs or wonders, but His Word....
Some will be "Sealed" by the revelation of God in thier foreheads, and the others will be marked in their forehead with the mark of the beast......for turning away from the presence of God after He came to them.
But you go on to say "if there is a divine plan for mankind, then we really don't have free will"
In one way this is correct.
Has not the potter power over the clay?
What if, for His good pleasure, he would with longsuffering endure the disobedience of the vessels of dishonor, fitted for wrath and destuction, to show His glory to be revealed in the vessels of honor.?
Him He predestinated, He did foreknow......
There are three types of beleivers in every group.
1. believers
2. maker-believers
3. un-believers
With fear and trembling Paul said, we each work out our own "salvation" by proving which one of these we are.
Phillipians 2:12-13
"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."
==================
Jesus used this parable to explain.
A seed does not fully manifest what it is ....untill harvest time.
The tares were the "seed of discrepency", the wheat were the "seed of God"....while immature, they jump for joy receiving the same life giving benifits of the same rain (Holy Spirit)
Many plant shoots look alike as these do untill they are come up to a certain point.....
At the harvest time....they will manifest that which they were from the beginning.
You see..... God is not the "father" of all men on earth.
Cain was of his father the wicked one., and his children today are too.
How did this happen? God allowed Satan to "create" his own race on earth.
Satan is given powers equal to God in every way, except the power to create something from nothing.
He took something already created.......a Serpent, an animal which was the closest creature to man, that he could also possess.....for it was just an animal, and breed this creature with Eve....to create his own people.
Should God then, as any father.....be responcible for the actions of children that are not His?.....
He comes to "REDEEM" that which were His.....
Redeem means "to be brought back", or to be "restored" to it's original position.
However God is rich in mercy, but these choose not to follow His Word.
As Cain murdered his brother, so shall these manifest in the end who they are.
They all look alike on the outside today.
God's children will "hear" His Word and receive revelation from thier Father as Abel did.
All creation groaneth in trevail, for the manifestation of the Sons of God.
The others will manifest a Son of Perdition...the seed of discrepency.
Jesus said to His disciples: Have not I chosen you twelve, and yet one of you is a devil.
They themselves knew not whom it was, each in turn asking of Him, "is it I Lord..?, is it I..?
But the seed will at the proper time....manifest that which it is, in every one of us.
This can only happen at the end....in the rising of the Son, when He comes with His holy angels they will seperate all in His kingdom.
The light of the Son of Man being revealed, and the rain of the Holy Spirit will cause the seeds to grow and manifest what they are.
He came to seperate father from mother ect........the Word of God seperates the people. Not miracles or signs or wonders, but His Word....
Some will be "Sealed" by the revelation of God in thier foreheads, and the others will be marked in their forehead with the mark of the beast......for turning away from the presence of God after He came to them.
But you go on to say "if there is a divine plan for mankind, then we really don't have free will"
In one way this is correct.
Has not the potter power over the clay?
What if, for His good pleasure, he would with longsuffering endure the disobedience of the vessels of dishonor, fitted for wrath and destuction, to show His glory to be revealed in the vessels of honor.?
Him He predestinated, He did foreknow......
There are three types of beleivers in every group.
1. believers
2. maker-believers
3. un-believers
With fear and trembling Paul said, we each work out our own "salvation" by proving which one of these we are.
Phillipians 2:12-13
"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."
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:Caution: Don't read the Bible when dropping acid.
Dude, I don't know what you were smoking when you thought this up, but I'll try to work with it anyway.
~Raithere
Dude, I don't know what you were smoking when you thought this up, but I'll try to work with it anyway.
So you're saying that God and Satan were kids together? Was their mother the Holy Spirit?
Yea, o k a y...
Well, you did point out that God gave Satan the power to do this... so yes, the ultimate responsibility is his.
Yes, we already went of this. God, as described here, is basically a tyrant and an asshole.
If God wanted a race of trembling, kowtowing, sycophantic, little ass-licks why did he bother to create free-will, or me?
~Raithere
Matthew 13:38 - The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Matthew 23:33 - Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
2 Corinthians 11:3 - But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
Revelation 12:9 - And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Romans 9:8 - That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
Genesis 3:1
"Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat(partake of) of every tree of the garden? 2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden,(God was the tree of life....the Word, the Serpent was the tree of good and evil, truth mixed with lies....like the denominations today) God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die(The lie) 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened,(they had a holy spirit veil over them, they would lose this and no longer be innocent) and ye shall be as gods,(They had been told to multiply, but not how....they were brought forth by the power of the spoken word.....not made with hands. Satan was telling them how to "create" life by sex...not the intended way, but still creating and therefore being as gods) knowing good and evil.
6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food,(spiritual knowledge...Jesus said his flesh, was the Word we should "eat" remember?) and that it was pleasant to the eyes,(there is a way that seemeth right to a man, but the ways thereof is death) and a tree to be desired to make one wise,(she thought he knew something God had not told her....he had her right there..) she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat,(She had Sex, with him) and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. (she showed Adam, and had sex with him)7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons. "
Genesis 3:11
"Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat? 12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat. 13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat. 14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
God cursed her were she sinned, in her childbearing...and the Serpent was changed into a snake...
These things have been hidden in the scriptures since the foundation of the world......and are the basis for understanding the mystery of God..which is Christ in you, the hope of glory, and the mystery of iniquity, which is the spirit which worketh now in the children of the world..
Matthew 23:33 - Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
2 Corinthians 11:3 - But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
Revelation 12:9 - And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Romans 9:8 - That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
Genesis 3:1
"Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat(partake of) of every tree of the garden? 2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden,(God was the tree of life....the Word, the Serpent was the tree of good and evil, truth mixed with lies....like the denominations today) God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die(The lie) 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened,(they had a holy spirit veil over them, they would lose this and no longer be innocent) and ye shall be as gods,(They had been told to multiply, but not how....they were brought forth by the power of the spoken word.....not made with hands. Satan was telling them how to "create" life by sex...not the intended way, but still creating and therefore being as gods) knowing good and evil.
6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food,(spiritual knowledge...Jesus said his flesh, was the Word we should "eat" remember?) and that it was pleasant to the eyes,(there is a way that seemeth right to a man, but the ways thereof is death) and a tree to be desired to make one wise,(she thought he knew something God had not told her....he had her right there..) she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat,(She had Sex, with him) and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. (she showed Adam, and had sex with him)7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons. "
Genesis 3:11
"Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat? 12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat. 13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat. 14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
God cursed her were she sinned, in her childbearing...and the Serpent was changed into a snake...
These things have been hidden in the scriptures since the foundation of the world......and are the basis for understanding the mystery of God..which is Christ in you, the hope of glory, and the mystery of iniquity, which is the spirit which worketh now in the children of the world..
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Holy shmoly i just figured it out! You're a nun!!
You're doing what some of us call: 'reaching'. You're trying to find an interpretation that means something to you specifically. You have sexual hang-ups, that's all seen and all fine but to say that god cursed mankind because they got laid is a tad strong.
Every creature that has life- including plants- reproduces. All of them do it to the same goal, and even though plants and humans differ somewhat we all achieve the same thing which is to reproduce. It may seem a tad trivial that the purpose of life is to multiply but once you've had children you'd see it in a whole new perspective.
Don't you see the problem with your ideals? 6,000 years ago mankind was created and because the women appreciated sex we're all doomed to hell except those who retain their virginity who are the real children of god?
A) where do dinosaurs fit in? Do not ignore the question, it is important.
B) Why would god give a woman a vagina unless it was meant to be 'explored'?
C) why didn't god just say: "you've had sex now you're doomed"? Instead of waffling on about trees and apples? Will gods new name be The Riddler?
Answer them, please.
You're doing what some of us call: 'reaching'. You're trying to find an interpretation that means something to you specifically. You have sexual hang-ups, that's all seen and all fine but to say that god cursed mankind because they got laid is a tad strong.
Every creature that has life- including plants- reproduces. All of them do it to the same goal, and even though plants and humans differ somewhat we all achieve the same thing which is to reproduce. It may seem a tad trivial that the purpose of life is to multiply but once you've had children you'd see it in a whole new perspective.
Don't you see the problem with your ideals? 6,000 years ago mankind was created and because the women appreciated sex we're all doomed to hell except those who retain their virginity who are the real children of god?
A) where do dinosaurs fit in? Do not ignore the question, it is important.
B) Why would god give a woman a vagina unless it was meant to be 'explored'?
C) why didn't god just say: "you've had sex now you're doomed"? Instead of waffling on about trees and apples? Will gods new name be The Riddler?
Answer them, please.
It's all Greek to TheVisitor
TheVisitor:
You really need to acquaint yourself with idioms or figures of speech.
Here's a starter course:
http://www.uky.edu/ArtsSciences/Classics/rhetoric.html
http://www.robibrad.demon.co.uk/Idioms.htm
metaphor n.
1. A figure of speech in which a word or phrase that ordinarily designates one thing is used to designate another, thus making an implicit comparison, as in “a sea of troubles” or “All the world's a stage” (Shakespeare).
2. One thing conceived as representing another; a symbol: “Hollywood has always been an irresistible, prefabricated metaphor for the crass, the materialistic, the shallow, and the craven” (Neal Gabler).
metonymy n.
A figure of speech in which one word or phrase is substituted for another with which it is closely associated, as in the use of Washington for the United States government or of the sword for military power.
personification n.
2. A person or thing typifying a certain quality or idea; an embodiment or exemplification: “He's invisible, a walking personification of the Negative” (Ralph Ellison).
3. A figure of speech in which inanimate objects or abstractions are endowed with human qualities or are represented as possessing human form, as in Hunger sat shivering on the road or Flowers danced about the lawn. Also called prosopopeia.
4. Artistic representation of an abstract quality or idea as a person.
simile n.
A figure of speech in which two essentially unlike things are compared, often in a phrase introduced by like or as, as in “How like the winter hath my absence been” or “So are you to my thoughts as food to life” (Shakespeare).
Synesis n.
A construction in which adherence to some element in the sense causes a departure from strict syntax, as in ``Philip went down to Samaria and preached Christ unto them.''
Study a while and then come back when you have a better understanding of language.
~Raithere
P.S. A quick note: Figures of speech are particularly important in translation between languages where the deeper meaning of a word in one language may not have an exact one word translation in the second. Consider, for instance, the difference in meaning between slender and skinny.
TheVisitor:
You really need to acquaint yourself with idioms or figures of speech.
Here's a starter course:
http://www.uky.edu/ArtsSciences/Classics/rhetoric.html
http://www.robibrad.demon.co.uk/Idioms.htm
metaphor n.
1. A figure of speech in which a word or phrase that ordinarily designates one thing is used to designate another, thus making an implicit comparison, as in “a sea of troubles” or “All the world's a stage” (Shakespeare).
2. One thing conceived as representing another; a symbol: “Hollywood has always been an irresistible, prefabricated metaphor for the crass, the materialistic, the shallow, and the craven” (Neal Gabler).
metonymy n.
A figure of speech in which one word or phrase is substituted for another with which it is closely associated, as in the use of Washington for the United States government or of the sword for military power.
personification n.
2. A person or thing typifying a certain quality or idea; an embodiment or exemplification: “He's invisible, a walking personification of the Negative” (Ralph Ellison).
3. A figure of speech in which inanimate objects or abstractions are endowed with human qualities or are represented as possessing human form, as in Hunger sat shivering on the road or Flowers danced about the lawn. Also called prosopopeia.
4. Artistic representation of an abstract quality or idea as a person.
simile n.
A figure of speech in which two essentially unlike things are compared, often in a phrase introduced by like or as, as in “How like the winter hath my absence been” or “So are you to my thoughts as food to life” (Shakespeare).
Synesis n.
A construction in which adherence to some element in the sense causes a departure from strict syntax, as in ``Philip went down to Samaria and preached Christ unto them.''
Study a while and then come back when you have a better understanding of language.
~Raithere
P.S. A quick note: Figures of speech are particularly important in translation between languages where the deeper meaning of a word in one language may not have an exact one word translation in the second. Consider, for instance, the difference in meaning between slender and skinny.
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I came across a good example. It is proof that any god can never be 'all powerful'. Consider this question
"Can god create such a heavy rock that he himself cannot lift ?"
If you answer yes or no to this question, you're in trouble. Either God isn't powerful enough to create a rock, or he isn't not powerful enough to lift a rock. Thus, all powerful is a characteristic that is impossible to obtain. Therefore, an all powerful god cannot exist.
"Can god create such a heavy rock that he himself cannot lift ?"
If you answer yes or no to this question, you're in trouble. Either God isn't powerful enough to create a rock, or he isn't not powerful enough to lift a rock. Thus, all powerful is a characteristic that is impossible to obtain. Therefore, an all powerful god cannot exist.
Quick response to The Visitor:
You like to lay blame upon mankind thnx to the serpent who slept with eve and had our side of people. I've heard you mention we're either children of adam or children of cain. Good vs evil.
I'd just like to point out the problem with that way of thinking. A few pages later in the book it clearly describes the end of all mankind. We are in fact all descendants of Noah who "was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked with god"
In reality there is no way we could be children of the serpent. All that history was destroyed. We are the descendants of a man pure enough and sinless enough to be the only man allowed to live through gods worldly holocaust.
So enough with the serpent shit, it's major flawed. We are all born of the holiest of men.
You like to lay blame upon mankind thnx to the serpent who slept with eve and had our side of people. I've heard you mention we're either children of adam or children of cain. Good vs evil.
I'd just like to point out the problem with that way of thinking. A few pages later in the book it clearly describes the end of all mankind. We are in fact all descendants of Noah who "was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked with god"
In reality there is no way we could be children of the serpent. All that history was destroyed. We are the descendants of a man pure enough and sinless enough to be the only man allowed to live through gods worldly holocaust.
So enough with the serpent shit, it's major flawed. We are all born of the holiest of men.
Horseman42
Registered Senior Member
Mountainhare,
The only way I can see for God to retain being all-powerful in this arguement is to suppose he can make the rock but chooses not to because as soon as he does he no longer remains all-powerful.
Do you have any other ideas?
The only way I can see for God to retain being all-powerful in this arguement is to suppose he can make the rock but chooses not to because as soon as he does he no longer remains all-powerful.
Do you have any other ideas?
Horseman42
Registered Senior Member
SnakeLord,
Yeah I kinda of started to point this out to TheVisitor on a previous thread, but he has yet to respond.
I'm interested to know how he will "enlighten us". Reading "between the lines" as he puts it.
Yeah I kinda of started to point this out to TheVisitor on a previous thread, but he has yet to respond.
I'm interested to know how he will "enlighten us". Reading "between the lines" as he puts it.
First of all, if you had been look for answers, instead of looking to find fault, ..............but what you wish is what you receive.
I said there were three kinds of believers, not two.
Believers, Make-Beleivers, and Un-Believers.....
And God has a great "economy" .....there are pennies, nickels, dimes ect.....
Not just Saved or Lost....
And The Serpents "seed" was not destroyed in the flood.
Giants again reappeared shortly thereafter, and took over most of the Sinai, before Abraham's time.
Noah, his wife....and his three sons and thier wives came over on the ark.
8 people, not 1.
Ham, Noah's son showed the character of Cain, in his actions, and his son Cannan was cursed of God, because of his actions.
This was likely the source of the Serpent's "seed", after the flood.
The Giants were finnaly wiped out in King Davids time about 1000 B.C.
Mortal man today is just the right mixture of both.
This sets the scene for the greatest battle ever fought......
If you want truth, just read the Bible.
I said there were three kinds of believers, not two.
Believers, Make-Beleivers, and Un-Believers.....
And God has a great "economy" .....there are pennies, nickels, dimes ect.....
Not just Saved or Lost....
And The Serpents "seed" was not destroyed in the flood.
Giants again reappeared shortly thereafter, and took over most of the Sinai, before Abraham's time.
Noah, his wife....and his three sons and thier wives came over on the ark.
8 people, not 1.
Ham, Noah's son showed the character of Cain, in his actions, and his son Cannan was cursed of God, because of his actions.
This was likely the source of the Serpent's "seed", after the flood.
The Giants were finnaly wiped out in King Davids time about 1000 B.C.
Mortal man today is just the right mixture of both.
This sets the scene for the greatest battle ever fought......
If you want truth, just read the Bible.
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I understand that you vehemently cling to that as your conclusion. It's not difficult to see. I do wonder however, how one could come to such a narrowminded conclusion? If I want truth, shouldn't I open myself to find it wherever it presents itself? In order to be able to properly do that I have to use some sort of tool for discernment right? There had to be a tool by which the decision "yes, this bible thing is where it's at" was reached. Would you say that you reached it reasonably? If so every argument I've seen you present is invalid since you say things like "thinking about what bible say will only confuse you". If you say you reached it by some sort of spritual experience, wouldn't you think to ponder that validity of that experience in terms of it's adherence to the rules you already know about reality? If the experience seemed incredible, should't you pursue incredible evidence that it in fact was not your emotional need satisfying itself by any needs neccesary?.... even delusion? ISN'T IT POSSIBLE THAT YOU ARE WRONG???????????
If I only look for truth in the bible, then surely that's the only place I can find it. Strict adherence to the bible for truth would certainly negate the possiblity that logic and reason are viable tools. Can't you see how that's circular? You'll justify it through some kind of experience that everyone else is supposed to believe more than their own body of experience? Doesn't that put YOU above EVERYONE ELSE in terms of the validity of our existence? Don't you see how egomaniacal that is?
if I THINK I'm right implicitely
my ego will go to infinity
if I think I'm wrong implicitely
my ego will go to zero
a healthy dose of doubt keeps one from going off the deep end on either side
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shouldn't I open myself to find it wherever it presents itself? If I only look for it in the bible, then surely that's the only place I can find it
============
By all means....look everywhere for truth.
I did.
Did you think I was so narrowminded that the Bible was the only place I looked....?
Not at all.....
I said ........."read the Bible, if you want to find the truth"
But also, your motive must be right with God, for He has the key to the truth within it....for it is Himself.
The entire Bible is the revelation of Jesus Christ, and He reveals Himself to whom He will, and shuts the Revelation to whom He will.
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By all means....look everywhere for truth.
I did.
Did you think I was so narrowminded that the Bible was the only place I looked....?
Not at all.....
I said ........."read the Bible, if you want to find the truth"
But also, your motive must be right with God, for He has the key to the truth within it....for it is Himself.
The entire Bible is the revelation of Jesus Christ, and He reveals Himself to whom He will, and shuts the Revelation to whom He will.
The nephilim, (giants), spoken about by the Sumerians as Anunnaki, and referred to in the bible as 'the children of anak', (num 13:33), show no indication of being related to the serpent.
The hebrew word for giant/s today is Anak and Anakim.
Anunnaki means 'those who from heaven to earth came'
Nephilim means 'Those who fell down', 'the fallen ones'. In historical context it means 'Those who have fallen down from above'.
In both instances the nephilim/anunnaki were descended from the sky.
In the bible they arrived quite some time after the great flood, in sumerian they were already present during the flood.
So you see there's evidence to suggest the serpent and his 'seed' met their fate during the flood and nothing to suggest any of their 'seed' survived. As god himself said he destroyed everything- every creature, every animal on the ground, every bird in the air yada yada.
Thus i concur the serpent and the nephilim have absolutely no relation to each other.
Showed the character of Cain? Cain got pissed off because god didn't like his fruit offering but loved his brothers meat offering. god then gave cain a bollocking over it. Cain then killed his brother.
What were the actions of Ham? Ah yes.... he told his brothers Noah was naked. That hardly seems fitting that god would then curse, (not ham), but his son. His son hadn't done anything and yet was cursed to be a slave his whole life all because his father had mentioned noah being naked, (Noah was drunk at the time).
His actions, (merely stating his father was drunk and nude), hardly required his son, or him being cursed. Again i state: this god of yours sound even worse than the serpent.
This is now the second time in the bible, (only upto page 10), that god has shown a distinct problem with humans noticing nakedness. The first was in eden, and now again here. Because of people mentioning nudity they get cursed? Fuck that.
Well no.. The nephilim are not involved at this point of the 'story' so it's nothing to do with them. Even if they were they still bear no relation to any serpent that according to you was 'turned into a snake' and thus would have been one of the first animals to drown when the rains started.
Ok so the nephilim 'fell down from above' and started sleeping with earth women. We're descendants from that- however it still has no relevance to the serpent. None whatsoever. It makes us half-aliens but not half-snake seed.
Oh yeah? What battle's that then?
I think maybe you should too then.