I Need a Miracle

I'm not sure I understand your question. I regard us as sophisticated robots but, as I have already said. I cannot prove it. Whether our will is free or not , we are going to feel that our unconstrained actions are free.

If you accept that the universe seems to operate on the basis of cause and effect, why should we be exempt ?
So robots simply act on the their programmes and parameters right just as humans do?
This is why I am asking do you think human exibit formulaic signs? IOW they are predictable. You apply a new set of rules to society and you can pretty much theroetically predict the outcome.

I know nothing about the matrix , so I shall have to pass on that one.

We are programmed in the sense that we are hard wired by our genes in some way. We are then exposed to our environment to which we react in a personal way. From then on , it's a process of action and reaction.

I do not believe we are pre-programmed in the sense that it has been decided what I shall have for lunch tomorrow because that will depend on the environment and how I react to it at that particular time. I cannot control that in advance.
You haven't watched the Matrix, man you don't know what you're missing.

That is odd because it's the other way round with me IOW the environment reacts to me, which for me means I am more of a programmer rather than the programmed.
Maybe the detail of what you may eat tommorow is not of universal consequence, but that's not saying that major aspects and forks in the path of your life have not already been predetermined.

You may or may not find this interesting but I happen to remember my previous lifetime. Just after dying and entering my current body I was given the choice of 'viewing' aspects of my current lifetime. This is why I have so many deja vu's. In this example my life had already been mapped out so you could argue that I had no choice in life but to carry out my own destiny. IOW the choices have already been made by myself and the collective.
 
So robots simply act on the their programmes and parameters right just as humans do?
This is why I am asking do you think human exibit formulaic signs? IOW they are predictable. You apply a new set of rules to society and you can pretty much theroetically predict the outcome.


You haven't watched the Matrix, man you don't know what you're missing.

That is odd because it's the other way round with me IOW the environment reacts to me, which for me means I am more of a programmer rather than the programmed.
Maybe the detail of what you may eat tommorow is not of universal consequence, but that's not saying that major aspects and forks in the path of your life have not already been predetermined.

You may or may not find this interesting but I happen to remember my previous lifetime. Just after dying and entering my current body I was given the choice of 'viewing' aspects of my current lifetime. This is why I have so many deja vu's. In this example my life had already been mapped out so you could argue that I had no choice in life but to carry out my own destiny. IOW the choices have already been made by myself and the collective.

I am a bit long in the tooth to become excited about the Matrix. If you feel like a programmer, that's fine. I was not comparing us to computers. Computers follow instructions; we are not programmed in that sense because evolution is random, not programmed.

Lots of people believe thy had former lives. Deja vu can be explained by what is going on in your brain, and does not have to be a recollection of an event in a former life. But, if you wish to believe it does, it's your privelige to do,
 
I'd consider a miracle as something out of the ordianry and intrinsicly good and beneficial.
How do you judge "out of the ordinary"? 1 chance in 2? 1 in 3? 1 in 100? 1 in 1000? What is "ordinary"?
Or is merely following laws of probability to be considered "ordinary"?

Can you give an example of what you would consider a miracle?
Someone winning the lottery, perhaps - if they had already promised to give 90% of it to charity?
Please do give as an example?
 
How do you judge "out of the ordinary"? 1 chance in 2? 1 in 3? 1 in 100? 1 in 1000? What is "ordinary"?
Or is merely following laws of probability to be considered "ordinary"?

Can you give an example of what you would consider a miracle?
Someone winning the lottery, perhaps - if they had already promised to give 90% of it to charity?
Please do give as an example?

I think you'd know it when you see it.
 
Why would it be for anything else?

I have no idea what it would be for, but if a miracle were to happen I cannot see why it should necessarily follow that the outcome would be beneficial .
The plagues sent upon Egypt were not benrficial to the Egyptians, if one believes such a thing happened.

I think we'll jut have to suspend judgement until a miracle occurs.
 
I have no idea what it would be for, but if a miracle were to happen I cannot see why it should necessarily follow that the outcome would be beneficial .
The plagues sent upon Egypt were not benrficial to the Egyptians, if one believes such a thing happened.

I think we'll jut have to suspend judgement until a miracle occurs.

If we suspend judgement we still haven't agreed on what would constitute a miracle. In some ways I think it entails the following:

1.Is out of the ordinary
2.A marvel that is unexplainable at the time
3.Creates a feel of awe and possibly fear (people are generally scared of not being in thier comfort zone of rationality)
4.An act that defies normal physical laws
5.Some kind of Divine intervention
 
If we suspend judgement we still haven't agreed on what would constitute a miracle. In some ways I think it entails the following:

1.Is out of the ordinary
2.A marvel that is unexplainable at the time
3.Creates a feel of awe and possibly fear (people are generally scared of not being in thier comfort zone of rationality)
4.An act that defies normal physical laws
5.Some kind of Divine intervention

I'm not holding my breath. I go with David Hume who said something to the effect that a miracle would have to transcend the natural order, i.e., break the laws of Nature and that such a thing would require an even more miraculous explanation.

To see exactly what he said , check out Hume on Miracles, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding
 
Dear Mr Myles I'm Davidon4u You Said I Copied Your Work In Regards To Our Creation. Thats Not True I Dont Know You And Have Never Read Any Of Your Books.i Started My Work 25 Or So Years Ago.you Don't Have Any Copy Writes To The Truths In The Bible.i Doubt Your Work And My Work Are Much Alike At All.the Fact That You Have A Lawyer And Would Sue Sombody Over Telling Any Truths From The Bible Leeds Everyone To Believe You Are Not A Christian.i Doubt Your Works Can Compare To Mine.this Story Of Our Creation Was First Recorded Thousands Of Years Before You Were Even Born.so If Anybody Is Copying Anyone Else' Work That Would Be You.i'm An A American And I Have Freedom Of Speech And My Lawyer Is Jesus The Christ So You And Your Lawyer Take This Matter Up With Him. Davidon4u

My lawyer keeeps trying to take the matter up with Jesus but he never replies
 
I have no idea what it would be for, but if a miracle were to happen I cannot see why it should necessarily follow that the outcome would be beneficial .
The plagues sent upon Egypt were not benrficial to the Egyptians, if one believes such a thing happened.

I think we'll jut have to suspend judgement until a miracle occurs.

And if you don't believe in such things then it really is illogical to entertain the thought.
 
And if you don't believe in such things then it really is illogical to entertain the thought.

You really must sort out your idea of logic, I can contemplate a vacuum without believing there is anything in it,
 
Dear Mr Myles

I'm Davidon4u

You Said I Copied Your Work In Regards To Our Creation. Thats Not True I Dont Know You And Have Never Read Any Of Your Books.i Started My Work 25 Or So Years Ago.you Don't Have Any Copy Writes To The Truths In The Bible.i Doubt Your Work And My Work Are Much Alike At All.the Fact That You Have A Lawyer And Would Sue Sombody Over Telling Any Truths From The Bible Leeds Everyone To Believe You Are Not A Christian.i Doubt Your Works Can Compare To Mine.this Story Of Our Creation Was First Recorded Thousands Of Years Before You Were Even Born.so If Anybody Is Copying Anyone Else' Work That Would Be You.i'm An A American And I Have Freedom Of Speech And My Lawyer Is Jesus The Christ So You And Your Lawyer Take This Matter Up With Him. Davidon4u
*************
M*W: I sincerely hope you don't get in any real trouble, because you'll find yourself standing before a judge with no legal representation.

If your statement were truthful, why hasn't any court anywhere in the world appointed Jesus as a court-appointed attorney for the righteous? Surely, there have been some innocent people charged with crimes, but Jesus never showed up to represent them.

Also, being christian doesn't save the guilty from due prosecution under the law.

Try to live within the scope of reality. Obviously, you're not.
 
You really must sort out your idea of logic, I can contemplate a vacuum without believing there is anything in it,

So you find it logical to contemplate the existence of that which does not exist to you. IF you were uncertain it would be logical. But you've denied the existence of God (I have the quotes) so you entertaining this is frivolous or nefarious. Neither is logical.
 
So you find it logical to contemplate the existence of that which does not exist to you. IF you were uncertain it would be logical. But you've denied the existence of God (I have the quotes) so you entertaining this is frivolous or nefarious. Neither is logical.

There you go again LOGIC...you have no idea. Has the thought of a unicorn never entered your head ? Have you never wondered about itsorigin ? Do you never wonder or think about Father Christmas and who invented him ?

If someone knocked on your door selling fairies which you could not see would you buy some ? Don't you know any fairytales. So, you only think about what's in the bible ?

Well, as you are fixated on logic, can you explain how Noah knew he had a full complement of animals? How did the animals know when to leave for the Ark, given that they had to travel from all over the globe ? How did marsupials learn to swim ? Did Noah realize there were African and Indian elephants, as he must have taken two of each ? How about tigers and leopards ? And were the animals fighting to get aboard the Ark or was it a question that only two of each kind were given special knowledge?Why did god drown all the other innocent animals ? Were they sinners ?

I'm sure it's all very logical and that you can explain it because it seems like a lot of neonsense to me and. I would not have thought about it had it not been thrust upon me by some of your fellow logicians.




I noticed your robust answer to what you would consider a miracle.Well done !
 
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"Has a thought of a unicorn never entered my head?"
I'm not a little girl so the answer is no.

Have I contemplated it's origin.
I would never waste my time in such a way, Miles. The thought has never been entertained. I'm just not a fantasy oriented person.

Don't you know any fairytales.
If they make to DVD I might.

Do you never wonder or think about Father Christmas and who invented him ?
Father WHO? Are you serious. I don't celebrate Christmas. I never have, never will.

So, you only think about what's in the bible ?
Bible study is difficult. It doesn't come easily. My mind would prefer to wonder on other less spirtual things. Sprituality requries maintainance.

I notice of your behavior that most things seem like nonsense to you if it runs contrary to your agenda and not just from a spiritual perspective. When you say nonsense, then more than likely it does make sense and you've displayed an emotional reaction to the information that's been provided.

It would seem you have a tendancy to assocate things religious with nonsense automaticly which is why it is illogical for you contemplate there origin day dream about them and discus it at length.

Evolution is effectively fantasy, Like Teenage Mutant Nija Turtles only without the entertainment factor. Why would I contemplate monkeys mutating into human beings if I didn't believe it was possible or at least undecided. It's not logical, there is no point.

You might try maintaining your own sense of uprightness and tailor your response so others may take you more seriously than the brute bull in a china shop reputation you've created for yourself. Diplomacy never hurt anyone and it could do you some good.
 
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"Has a thought of a unicorn never entered my head?"
I'm not a little girl so the answer is no.

Have I contemplated it's origin.
I would never waste my time in such a way, Miles. The thought has never been entertained. I'm just not a fantasy oriented person.

Don't you know any fairytales.
If they make to DVD I might.

Do you never wonder or think about Father Christmas and who invented him ?
Father WHO? Are you serious. I don't celebrate Christmas. I never have, never will.

So, you only think about what's in the bible ?
Bible study is difficult. It doesn't come easily. My mind would prefer to wonder on other less spirtual things. Sprituality requries maintainance.

I notice of your behavior that most things seem like nonsense to you if it runs contrary to your agenda and not just from a spiritual perspective. When you say nonsense, then more than likely it does make sense and you've displayed an emotional reaction to the information that's been provided.

It would seem you have a tendancy to assocate things religious with nonsense automaticly which is why it is illogical for you contemplate there origin day dream about them and discus it at length.

Evolution is effectively fantasy, Like Teenage Mutant Nija Turtles only without the entertainment factor. Why would I contemplate monkeys mutating into human beings if I didn't believe it was possible or at least undecided. It's not logical, there is no point.

You might try maintaining your own sense of uprightness and tailor your response so others may take you more seriously than the brute bull in a china shop reputation you've created for yourself. Diplomacy never hurt anyone and it could do you some good.

Lets get a couple of things straight. I'm not remotely interested in your approval. I couldn't care less about you and your spirituality. In short. I have no use foir you advice.

So you have never celebrated Christmas. Well, good for you. Many non-Christians do. so it's no big deal. I take it you know it was originally a pagan festival.

You are right about my views on religion. I do think it's nonsense. i.e., it makes no sense. I am not in the business of telling others what to believe but when I come across people such as you touting their wares, I oppose them so that some of their readers may be helped to see that there are other ways of looking at things. I regard all forms of religious indoctrination in schools and homes as a form of child abuse.

Bible study is indeed difficult, hence your apparent inability to answer my wuestion about Noah. How about the gang rape mentioned in Judges ? Now that is difficult to understand, so it has to be rationalized by explaining that the text doesn't mean what the text says. Never mind, there's a bible scholar who will explain it all away.

Who told you that monkeys mutate into men ? Some Christian ID site which specialises in twisting the truth to gain converts for their particular brand of superstition.

A CHALLENGE: If you can cite a work on evolutionary theory where it states that monkeys mutate into men, I will retract everything I have said, So, pick up the gauntlet, if you dare. Let's see what you are really made of !

The fact that you say monkeys shows the depth of your ignorance; monkeys are not apes, chimpazees are. Even Noah knew the difference.

The year is 2008 but you are playing the role of Soapy Sam Wilberforce who was roundly defeated in 1920. Get up to date and, in so doing, give ID a wide berth.

I shall wait to hear from you about the "monkeys". Anything else is irrelevant at this juncture.
 
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Lets get a couple of things straight. I'm not remotely interested in your approval. I couldn't care less about you and your spirituality. In short. I have no use foir you advice.

You say you're not intrested in my approval, yet you follow, intercept and engage my opinion almost an almost endless line of questioning. Again you behavior is not just illogical it's contrary to you apparent objective. If you have no use for my approval then why do you seek it.


Logic Miles,
It says that our ideologies and morality are so different there is no commonality to relate to. Defying that logic you seem to seek my attention. Logicly I don't care at all about what you think on religion, I have no need to compare with your mind set. It's not personal, just logical.

Again. Logic.
You have not seen it, Miles. Your emotions blind you. (yes this is my observance) You're prejudice, nothing can change your mind, the same with others. I its not a matter of the decision you've made regarding religion and science it's the failure to see one religion is not all. You've mispoken several times as though this is true. That founds prejudice.

I avoid prejudice individuals assiduously. I can learn nothing from them. Nothing good or nice ever came from prejudice.


A CHALLENGE: If you can cite a work on evolutionary theory where is states that monkeys mutate into men, I will retract everything I have said, So, pick up the gauntlet, if you dare. Let's see what you are really made of !

You see Miles, I don't engage sick individuals because they're contaminated. The longer I stay in contact the greater the risk that I'll contract your prejudice. That's why I try to get rid of you. You're very much like a cancer or ulcer, part of the same body but working against the whole. An error in attitude if you will, consumed with your selfeven if it leads to the death of the body we all live on.


Like you with your bible accusations it actually shows my contempt. The difference being I know and listen to what others say about evolution at ever chance in order to accept any new information to change my mind. You've shown that no amount of knowledge will change your mind set. That is illogical and inherently an emotionaly driven decesion. If you make decisions based on emotion then your chances of making wrong decisions drasticly increases.
 
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