I hate Christians

[(Q)]

We are talking about a living, acting God, so if you have spoken to that one, then you should be having facts.

Are you therefore asserting that a 'living, acting God' does in fact exist and that humans, at some point in time, have spoken to him/her/it?

 

[Adstar]

Adstar:
Ok Jenyar i do not want to get into a discussion with you but i will comment on your comments. You are a catholic apologist. To me you are not my brother in Jesus. You may as well be a hindu or a buddst or any other religion. Actually catholicisim is worse than buddisim or hinduism they do not twist the Word Of God and teach a balaam jesus. The catholic church was born out of harloty with constantine when it's founders rejected the Messiah's call to "Love you emamies" and joined constantine to kill his enamies for earthly security and wealth. They sold out Jesus for mammon.

water:
To inform you, I live in a country that is officially more than 90% Catholic. There are only three churches in reachable distance for me: the Catholics, the Mormons, and the Evangelists (who are very, very few, and the pastor almost impossible to reach as she is out on the way most of the time).

Consider what influence I had on me, and still have.

In elementary school, all children were Catholic except for me, and they had excluded me from their company after learning at Bible school that they should not associate with non-believers. I've lost almost all my friends overnight.
In my mother's family, all grandchildren were baptized, and I wasn't. For church holidays, they got presents, and I was left out. I was always something apart.
My grandfather, father's father, was particularly negative towards me (even though I was his only grandchild) as I was not baptized.
My grandmother, my mother's mother, considered me a pagan, and said so, shut me up with it.

You, Adstar, are in fact not much different than those people. And you want me to trust the God you believe in?

Why do you seek to build a picture of a hate monger round me? Let me go through what i said to Jenyar. And then i will answer your points.



"Ok Jenyar i do not want to get into a discussion with you but i will comment on your comments."

Ok you think i do not want to discuss with Janyar because i hate Jenyar.
I think i do not want to get bogged down with Janyar because i want to focus on discussion with you. Although the post was in reply to a post from Jenyar that reply was really using Jenyar comments to give answers to you.



"You are a catholic apologist."

At the time of righting that was my belief. I came to this belief from the number of times Jenyar has quoted "catholic saints and theologians" to support doctrinal views that i disagree with.



"To me you are not my brother in Jesus."

Now you see this as a "i hate you Jenyar" kind of statement.

I see it as Letting Jenyar know that i do not believe he is saved. Saying that someone is not a brother in Jesus is not saying you hate them. I still stand by that statement and i state it as my belief. Jenyar is not a bother in Jesus to me we do not have the same faith.



"You may as well be a hindu or a buddst or any other religion. Actually catholicisim is worse than buddisim or hinduism they do not twist the Word Of God and teach a balaam jesus. "

i believe it does not matter if one is 50 feet from Jesus or 5000 miles, those that are saved are those that Jesus is with. What do you think offends The God of Abraham more? A faith that does not believe the God of Abraham exists or a faith that bears false witness to His will and speaks lies in His name? But once again i do not hate catholics. I hate catholicisim.... get it??? I do not hate the deceived, i hate the lies that deceive them. I do not hate Jenyar..



"The catholic church was born out of harloty with constantine when it's founders rejected the Messiah's call to "Love you emamies" and joined constantine to kill his enamies for earthly security and wealth. They sold out Jesus for mammon."

I will stand by what i have said here and no one will make me feel ashamed for having said it. Because by their very actions in engaging in combat and their use of theologians to twist the Words Of God to falsely justify their partaking in war they have demonstrated outward rejection of the Words of The Messiah Jesus. I have said this not as a way of expressing hate for catholics but to show them that the catholic church ( and many other churches ) are not true to the Word Of God. I say this to convince them to leave that church and follow the Word of God. I want to save not to condemn. You precieve this but feel this .


Ok now let me continue with your comments.

In elementary school, all children were Catholic except for me, and they had excluded me from their company after learning at Bible school that they should not associate with non-believers. I've lost almost all my friends overnight.

That would have been very cruel. For a child it would have been devastating.
Those children where taught falsely in shunning you they where not following the Word of God. I will tell you the verse they had to twist to get those kids to shun you.

2 Corinthians 6:
11 O Corinthians! We have spoken openly to you, our heart is wide open. 12 You are not restricted by us, but you are restricted by your own affections. 13 Now in return for the same (I speak as to children), you also be open. 14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

water i witness to unbelievers but i fellowship with followers of The Messiah Jesus. Fellowship is sharing faith giving and receiving understanding of God that we have received through the Holy Spirit. This verse is saying that we should not have fellowship with unbelievers. It is saying we should not mix out faith with other religions, mix our light with darkness. It is not saying that we must not care for or not love unbelievers. If Followers of Jesus where to do that then we would not be able to give the gospel message to anyone. And i would not come to this forum.

In my mother's family, all grandchildren were baptized, and I wasn't. For church holidays, they got presents, and I was left out. I was always something apart.

Being rejected and made apart from a false religion could end up being a great blessing to you water. If you where baptized and where accepted maybe you would have never questioned.

My grandfather, father's father, was particularly negative towards me (even though I was his only grandchild) as I was not baptized.

Sometimes people are negative to the child as a way of punishing the parents? Sometimes people will be mean to someone as a kind of reverse motivation, their thinking goes something like this. "if i am mean to her then she will do what she knows will make me happy to stop me from being mean to her. She will get baptized". there was a bit of that going on in my life from my catholic family ( oh maybe you didn't know i once was a catholic, i used to ba an altar boy lol ). it never works.

You, Adstar, are in fact not much different than those people. And you want me to trust the God you believe in?

That you think i am like them really hurts me. The last thing i would want to do is come across that way to you. It's a sad fact that you cannot hear my voice or look upon my face or see my tears. I can only say that i do the best i can do within the limits of what i have to do it with. I am not God. I'm just a man. I can understand why you might not trust me or perceive evil intent in my words, but even if you do, It should not be a reason to have no trust in The God Of Abraham.

All Praise The Ancient of Days

 

[lixluke]

Your refusal to actually engage in conversation and answer questions regarding the issues at hand demonstrates only that you have no real assertion.

Wrong. If I didn't have an assertion, there would be nothing for you to question. Furthermore, I have made many stated many points regarding my assertions. What exactly is it you are not happy with?

I asserted that those questions were irrelevant. You asserted: My questions are relevant and pertinent.
I pointed out exact reasons to support my assertion about the relevance of those questions.
You have not made any point that support your assertion about the relevance of your questions. Nor have you made any point against my points.

The only person that refuses to engage in any productive conversation is you. You are circling around, and providing no point to support your assertion. EVERYTHING with you is ad hom. Those qestions that you claim are so relevant point to nothing but ad-hom.

Why do you believe such questions are in at all relevant to anything we are talking about. How would you consider those questions not to be a set up for ad-hominem fallacy?

I find your "flame you 10 times more" comment humorous enough to actually chuckle aloud.

You would.
What is your point? Again what are you trying to prove?
Is your entire goal an attack on my character?
Make an assertion, and support it.
Make an argument against one of my assertions or one of my points, and support it.
Question any of the points I made to support my assertions or question point that I made that you do not clearly understand the meaning of.

Stop attacking my character. Your making a complete idiot of yourself.

 

[(Q)]

Stop attacking my character. Your making a complete idiot of yourself.

Sorry, but it is YOU who is making a complete idiot of yourself from your paranoid delusions that we are attacking your character.

 

[lixluke]

Wrong. You don't even know what an attack on character is. You probanly believe that it is fact. Here's a fact for you: You need your head examined. Idiot.

because you have provided no evidence for these assertion, we cannot reply to something that is just heresay

I never stated that I did not provide evidence.
The statement that I made is that I provided tons of evidence all over this thread.
I do not know how you could interpret that statement as me saying that I did not provide evidence.
Here is a quote from my previous post again:

I have given many many examples about how atheists are delusional, what atheists are not delusional, and what atheism and atheist delusion is. I have many atheists post lots of delusional material. I have exposed such material, and explained how they are delusional.

Please state what it is you do not understand about all of my examples.

as you believe that atheist are all delusional but provide no evidence for this.
means you are working under a false believe.

Wrong. Whether or not Cool Skill provides evidence does not make a quality true or false.

The earth revolves around the sun.
Whether or not you provide me with all the calculations to prove it, there will be no effect.
The earth will continue to revolve around the sun anyway.
The earth revolves around the sun if you show me calculations.
The earth revolves around the sun if you do not show me calculations.
The earth revolves around the sun either way.
If all the people on the planet lived in a cave, and never saw the sun, and never made any calculation, the earth will continue to revolve around the sun.

In other words, here is the logic of your argument with a different subject:
Cool Skill asserted that the earth revolves around the sun.
Cool Skill did not provide evidence that the earth revolves around the sun.
Therefore, the earth does not revolve around the sun.


I asserted Atheists are delusional.
You asserted that atheists are not delusional.
You stated that the reason atheists are not delusional was because Cool Skill did not provide evidence that atheists are delusional.
I asserted that the state of an atheists delusion is independent of my provision of evidence. In the same way, the state of the earths revolution is independent of my provision of evidence.

You asserted I have a false belief. I am resistant to reason or confrontation with your undeniable fact. Therefore, I am delusional. I have a mind of an infant. That is not an attack. That is not a slur. That is logical fact. If I believe it is not a fact that I have a mind of an infant, I clearly have no grasp of words and their meaning of logical fact. Therefore, I am paranoid as well as delusional. It is apparent you need to have yourself checked. You are a seriously demented individual. That is an attack.

You started with the assertion that atheists are not delusional. You attacked me with some seriously demented psychosis. You have provided me with the very evidence you have been running around assuming I did not have. If you want evidence about what raving delusionals atheists are, look at your own posts.

I told you that I already made my points to support my assertion about why atheists are delusional.
Instead of responding to my points, you asserted that I never made any points. Therefore, my beliefs are irrational, and I am delusional, and there is no other reasoning.
More evidence to support my assertion that atheists are delusional.


Make an assertion, and provide your arguments to support it. Refrain from attacking my character, and mistaking character attacks as facts.

 

[(Q)]

Make an assertion, and provide your arguments to support it.

Ok, I assert you are paranoid delusionist.

I asked you to "explain to us how your life has been affected by the decisions of atheists in which you disagreed?"

You responded: "... you have not read my comments and are only attacking."

Argument supported.

I assert you are not interested in discussion.

You need your head examined. Idiot.

Argument supported.

 

[SkinWalker]

Stop attacking my character. Your making a complete idiot of yourself.

LOL! You had me!

This whole time I thought you were serious! I must say, I really thought you were obstinate, bad-tempered, and antagonistic, but it really is an act, isn't it? Good show, my friend!

 

[VossistArts]

VossistArts,




It does change a person, and it does change things: If nothing else, one turns away from them.

From Romans 2:24: For it is because of you [ie. the Jews] that God's name is cursed among the heathens ...

it does not change a thing. you take what they put out and you decide what to do with it, you decide to turn away. there is nothing about christianity that forces you beyond your control to turn away any more than there is any kind of judgement that they can pass on you as a christian or non-christian that transforms you into a good or evil person.

No, no, now you're talking superstition and inductive truism.
We do not have a conclusive, full picture of what Christianity is, we only have little segments of it, based on the relatively few Christians we have met in our lives (relatively few in comparison to the number of all the Christians). I would not dare argue that I have been exposed to a representative sample of Christians or Christianity. If you'd live in Mexico among the Christians, for example, you'd have a whole different experience of Christianity from the one if you'd live among Christians in Germany, for example.

i was talking about christianity as its put forth from the NT.

I do not know what this "Voice of Truth" is. It seems it is something specific to you, and maybe some like-minded.
Employ the scientific method, and there is no "Voice of Truth".

some people call it intuition. you can examine very little of what is called religion, scientifically. nowhere is it called the science of religion. i think i understand that youre really trying to work things out with christianity specifically. i can recomment reading the early christian writings and scripture that was left out of the NT. in general id advise sticking as close to what jesus taught as possible despite the fact that there is relatively little known about what he taught. I personally have almost zero interest in all the commentary that follows his death. especially where you get into 100s of years later. or maybe i should say that your and my commentary on the subject is just as valid.
when it comes to spirituality though, i think it important to consider that of the supposed enlightened individuals that were aware of, they all pretty much walked their own path, defined their own way. when i mentioned that only recently ive come up with some disagreement with buddhism, whos collection of scripture dwarfs that of christianity by 1000 times, i mean that i disagree with the way that his followers try and fit their feet into his shoes in order to attempt to arrive at enlightenment that way he did., same for jesus. i think either of these two people would tell us to throw their stuff away and walk out into it on your own, because as long as you try and see it through another persons eyes, you are not seeing what was meant for you and you alone to see about "what it is,and what it means to you". in fact, it seems to me that both jesus and the buddha (among others)found their way to their apparent ends ONLY after discarding the past and established conventions popular at the times, for finding truths.

But whatever. I also acknowledge that this pursuit to find peace in your religion(s) of choice is all part of it and that all things necessary come in their due time. on a personal note it makes me really happy for some reason to see you or anyone pursuing things like this so wholeheartedly. that you feel some discomfort or pain over it, is great to as far as im concerned. when you feel peace and joy over it, just as well., I wish you the best in finding what youre looking for.

 

[lixluke]

Argument supported.

Both those attacks do not support your argument. You don't even have an argument. Get a brain. Keep falming. that's seems to be all you're interested in. Retard.

 

[SkinWalker]

Get a brain. Keep falming.

LOL! Keep 'em coming!

 

[lixluke]

This whole time I thought you were serious! I must say, I really thought you were obstinate, bad-tempered, and antagonistic, but it really is an act, isn't it? Good show, my friend!

Typical atheist delusional utter maniacal stupidity. I'm glad you think so, imbecile.

 

[SnakeLord]

Sorry did I miss something? I didn't realise the religious ilk had changed from saying "I shall pray for you", and "come join our church service" to "imbecile", "retard", "idiot", "get a brain" and so on.

Guess I'll have to get a copy of the latest bible revision.. KJV part XVII or something.

 

[SkinWalker]

Ha ha ha. "What would Jesus do," indeed!

 

[stretched]

Quote w:
“Cruel or not -- the test had to be REAL and SERIOUS. The moment Abraham put the knife to Isaac's throat, he showed the willingness to obey God in everything. It seems this is the realization God wanted Abraham to come to (that he puts all his trust in God), and only a serious and real enough test could do that. If there is little for you at stake, it won't have much of an effect on you.”

* Part of the problem with taking the Bible and its god seriously at all, is all the “judgement” and “testing”. For what? So that man can prove to god (omnipotent) that they love him more than anything. What a silly need this god has. Insecure? For the sake of logic, lets look at this in human terms. I am a father. I want to test my sons love. I say to him (because it’s a serious test) kill your beloved dog to prove that you love me. Bottom line, I love my son far more than to put him to this cruel and silly test. Conclusion. “I cannot relate to this god”. DISCARD. Read this in the simple manner in which it is offered.

Quote w:
“Ask yourself: Do people want to be one big happy family? Do they? Would *you* like to be one big happy family with GW Bush and Saddam Hussein and the person who killed your children and raped your wife, in front of your eyes?
Or, more immediately, how many people in this forum would *you* want to be one big happy family with? Or with how many people from *your* town?
If you yourself are not ready to be one big happy family with all the people in the world, it's pointless talking about this one biiiiiiig happppppppppppppy famiiiiily.”

* According to the Bible that troubles you, there was initially a happy family. In Eden. In gods wisdom he created division.

Quote w:
“What was it like? A burning bush, a parted sea?”

* Absolutely nothing at all like anything in the Bible.

Quote w:
“You are too emotional about it.”

* I concur, and I have my reasons for this.

Quote w:
“Then you need to be consistent and keep to what the Bible says.”

* Indeed I am consistent about what it says. I am also consistent in rejecting it.

Quote w:
“And?
Really, I would love to know what you think the implications of what you said above are.”

* Quite simply, are you putting all your eggs in one basket.

Quote w:
“We are talking about a living, acting God, so if you have spoken to that one, then you should be having facts.”

* This statement clarifies your lack of understanding. Who says that we are talking about a living, acting god? The Bible? If you are seeking only within those parameters, you may not find the answers.

Quote w:
“But do you have *confirmation* from Jehovah, the God of Israel, that it was indeed Him you have spoken to?”

* Initially I may have set out to speak to the god of Israel, but my understanding of the god that I speak to has nothing to do with organised religion, sects or cults. It is far more complicated and simultaneously far simpler than that. If you want, we can talk further about this.

Quote w:
“Niiiiiiice. This is like making up a language that only you can understand, and you cannot talk to nobody in it but yourself.”

* But I do. All the time. Get out of that box. Do you wear “Nike” shoes? “Diesel” t-shirts?

Quote w:
“You have to look for Him, and He will find you.

* You don’t “HAVE” to do anything. If you are honest, this thing we call god will find you.

Allcare.

 

[Athelwulf]

Typical atheist delusional utter maniacal stupidity. I'm glad you think so, imbecile.

Where are all the Christians? Did they decide to leave SciForums for good?

I'd say more, but others have said it all so well that there's no need to repeat it, nor is there in any sense in doing so.

 

[stretched]

Quote Adstar:
"Jenyar is not a bother in Jesus to me we do not have the same faith."

* Ahhh, now I understand why there are 30 000 Christian denominations. You must both be right, right? Which of you are confused? My moneys on Jenyar. You go Jen!

 

[water]

stretched,


It is meaningless to point out the good and the bad in the Bible, as your mind is made up to see the bad.

Your understanding is specifically Western, and I suggest you read up on this http://www.orthodoxpress.org/parish/river_of_fire.htm :

But why do men hate God? They hate Him not only because their deeds are dark while God is light, but also because they consider Him as a menace, as an imminent and eternal danger, as an adversary in court, as an opponent at law, as a public prosecutor and an eternal persecutor. To them, God is no more the almighty physician who came to save them from illness and death, but rather a cruel judge and a vengeful inquisitor.

You see, the devil managed to make men believe that God does not really love us, that He really only loves Himself, and that He accepts us only if we behave as He wants us to behave; that He hates us if we do not behave as He ordered us to behave, and is offended by our insubordination to such a degree that we must pay for it by eternal tortures, created by Him for that purpose.
...

 

[water]

Adstar,

Ok you think i do not want to discuss with Janyar because i hate Jenyar.
/.../
Now you see this as a "i hate you Jenyar" kind of statement.

Please don't think for me. Making you-statements can be a dangerous undertaking.

Jenyar is not a bother in Jesus to me we do not have the same faith.

Now put yourself in the shoes of someone outside of Christianity: Both of you are trying to persuade me, while opposing eachother. This is very persuasive, indeed.

Sometimes people are negative to the child as a way of punishing the parents? Sometimes people will be mean to someone as a kind of reverse motivation, their thinking goes something like this. "if i am mean to her then she will do what she knows will make me happy to stop me from being mean to her. She will get baptized". there was a bit of that going on in my life from my catholic family ( oh maybe you didn't know i once was a catholic, i used to ba an altar boy lol ). it never works.

I wasn't saying those things to make a pity party ... just to explain my particular aversions.
But, there were probably other, political and personal reasons that made those people act the way they did, only that they dressed up those reasons as if they were indeed religious.

That you think i am like them really hurts me. The last thing i would want to do is come across that way to you. It's a sad fact that you cannot hear my voice or look upon my face or see my tears. I can only say that i do the best i can do within the limits of what i have to do it with. I am not God. I'm just a man. I can understand why you might not trust me or perceive evil intent in my words, but even if you do, It should not be a reason to have no trust in The God Of Abraham.

No! You weren't crying, were you?!

No reasonable person will blame other people for their dismissal of God or lack of faith. Faith is between God and the person, not between the person and other people.
However, believers can be very clumsy in expressing what they think, and instead of explaining, they accuse.

 

[water]

We are talking about a living, acting God, so if you have spoken to that one, then you should be having facts.

Are you therefore asserting that a 'living, acting God' does in fact exist and that humans, at some point in time, have spoken to him/her/it?

The Bible says so. I cannot support the assertion myself, but I cannot discard it either.

 

[Jenyar]

At the time of righting that was my belief. I came to this belief from the number of times Jenyar has quoted "catholic saints and theologians" to support doctrinal views that i disagree with.

I'm interested to hear on what points you disagree with me. You could PM me if you don't want to discuss it here, although I'm sure Water won't mind.