I hate Christians

[Lori_7]

*waves* hi, new here and all that jazz... browsing but HAD to chime in on this one. How does one come to believe that the Christian God loves everyone infinitely and unconditionally?

Hi there newbie! I came to believe that by getting to know Him personally...through knowledge of Him, including His character and nature. And in case you wondered, I came to know Him by sincerely wanting to know Him...in other words, I asked for it...ask...knock...and there ya go.

Wubbies,

Lori

 

[Lori_7]

Willow,

Sorry to butt in, as you were not addressing me, but God's love is not even dependent upon your salvation. Your salvation in Christ is your choice, not His. He loves you just as much as anyone of us regardless of any of your choices, including that one. And so, His love is entirely unconditional.

He gives you what you sincerely want...and ask for. So if you don't want to know Him, He gives you that. He's answered all of my prayers...just never in a way, or a time frame that I've even remotely expected. The waiting seems unbearable at times, but man when He comes through, He just blows your expectations away. I have experienced that God's love and power is so much more than a human could ever conceive of.

 

[Hapsburg]

Cool Skill, you are a poor, deluded, fool...
Really.
I'm an athiest. Most of my friends are athiests.
They do not hate religion. They simply don't care. There is a big difference between not giving a shit and hating something.
You really should get to know some athiests before generalizing and stereotyping a group of people. You are just making generalizations that do not apply to the majority of athiests.

 

[Lori_7]

?
Believing in God does not make one a Christian.

It does if the God you believe in loves Christians more than He does you. I mean, I'm assuming that you believe Him to be the Christian God if He were to love Christians more than you...otherwise why would He? Even though what you are accusing Him of is not what the faith attests to, if you believe in the Christian God, then you're a Christian. Right?

 

[lixluke]

I am making generalizations. The only deluded major idiot is you. You really should get to know a brain before glorifying your illiterate comments with personal attacks.

 

[Athelwulf]

God answers your prayers, but not mine. He shows favoritism.

There isn't anyone there to answer anyone's prayers. It's superstitious to think something was granted to you simply because you asked for it.

So really, their prayers aren't being answered any more or less than yours are.

 

[Jenyar]

God answers your prayers, but not mine. He shows favoritism.

That's a very selfish conclusion. There are just as many Christians who have felt their prayers weren't answered. It doesn't point to favouritism if it points to wisdom.

But possibly Christians have had more practice at discerning God's answers, or are more willing to testify to them, so they seem "priviledged". There are many things that might be condidered. Have you tried to find out God's complete answer, or did you stop listening the moment you didn't get what you asked for? Wasn't He still answering your first prayer when you asked the next question? Didn't you perhaps hear "no" when He said "wait"? Did you do what He suggested? The reasons could vary as much as the answers, because every person's relationship with God is unique and so is their circumstances. Do you trust Him?

 

[water]

Lori_7,

Your salvation in Christ is your choice, not His.

You are blaspheming. You are practically saying that a person can command God around, at will.
"I believe in Christ, so God, save me!" No way.

Believing in God does not make one a Christian.

It does if the God you believe in loves Christians more than He does you.

I have not the slightest clue as to how you come to this conclusion.
Are you saying Christianity was there first, and then came God?

I mean, I'm assuming that you believe Him to be the Christian God if He were to love Christians more than you...otherwise why would He? Even though what you are accusing Him of is not what the faith attests to, if you believe in the Christian God, then you're a Christian. Right?

I believe there is one God, and religions understand Him differently. Because of different religions, does not automatically mean that there are different Gods.

First there was God, then came the religions. Christians seem to be God's favourites.


* * *

Athelwulf,

There isn't anyone there to answer anyone's prayers. It's superstitious to think something was granted to you simply because you asked for it.

So really, their prayers aren't being answered any more or less than yours are.

This is a statement of negative faith, but still faith. You don't know whether there indeed is noone to answer prayers.

 

[water]

cool skill,

My prayers are never answered. And it's not like I'm asking for the proverbial pony.

Point?

I'm angry and disappointed.

Go join the atheist congregation as seen in my previous post. You will fit in well with those.

I do not want to be part of the "atheist congregation". They either argue against some strawmen gods and blame other people for their disbelief in God, or they know God, but don't care.
Neither of these is a viable option for me.


* * *

scoripus,

seriously dude youre on Sciforums using this invention called computer...who the fuck do you think got you and your deluded narrow minded religious imbeciles this far into the modern age???

certainly not your Church/religions,
hell if it wasnt for the Freethinking atheists you would still be living on Flat Earth and think theres demons and Bad Spirits ready to take over your Soul when you sneeze..and pray to some diety when you get sick instead of going to the doctors..while believing the earth is 6 thousand years young,

and you want to teach this religious horseshit as the Truth in schools..

get real...

How nice, mature and stabile of you!


* * *

§outh§tar,

Funny how Christians on here like to pretend Calvin was wrong.

It all depends on how we understand Calvinistic doctrine.


* * *

Willow,

I appreciate your response, however that isn't quite what I was getting at. I am curious as to how a Christian can reconcile the concept of 'unconditional love' with the rest of their Dogma. If unconditional means, not subject to or dependent upon something essential to the appearance or occurrence of something else; then how is Gods love unconditional when in order to be worthy of it according to Christian dogma, one must first accept that Christ made a personal sacrifice for them?

Either Gods love is unconditional, or belief in that sacrifice is not necessary for salvation.

A lot of abstract, reductionist analytical bullshit was later on added, in the way people interpreted the Bible.
My bet is that the whole thing is a lot simpler, and that accepting Christ does not mean going around and saying "I have accepted Christ". One can accept Christ in her works, be thankful for the gifts she receives, and ask forgiveness for the wrongs she did. Faith is attested before God anyway, not before people.


* * *

Adstar,

It seems God has not hardened water. yet.

Have are we to know?

As for you Southstar maybe He has? Remember you have rejected the Love Of The Truth.

I don't think he has. I think he is thoroughly disappointed at how he has been treated.

You said people can believe in God without being Christian. You are very right. But as a follower of Jesus i believe Jesus when He said:

John 14
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

If what i believe is true. Then your prayers will never be considered if you do not embrace the Love Of The Truth.

So you are suggesting I should just utter words that have no meaning for me?
Or, maybe, bang my head against the wall for so long until it gets soft enough to believe and say anything?

It is God who grants faith, and I'd be superstitious trying to believe on my own accord.

What does it mean to "embrace The Love of Truth"? Staring at a crucifix and somehow trying to make myself think this is it, I am "embracing The Love of Truth"?


* * *

Medicine Woman,

M*W: Atheists have no reason to "hate Christians and/or resent Christianity.

Atheists who once thought to be Christians, now resent Christians because supposedly, Christians have lied to them about God and Jesus.

To atheists. Christianity doesn't really exist, so it's not a threat.

Congratulations, you have hit a new low.

M*W: Atheists are not concerned with the religious beliefs of others. For atheists, they simply don't exist. Atheists hating something that they don't believe exists is incomprehensible.

Head in the sand, that's right!


Medicine Woman, I can now understand how some people (people like you) can invite others to become fundamentalists.


* * *

Hapsburg,

And Christians aren't fanatics?
A little thing called the Crusades comes to mind...

Two fallacies in one: a strawman and a selective observation.
1. You believe that whatever is done in God's name, is indeed so ordained and condoned by God. Which is a strawman argument.
2. You ignore the good works Christians have done. Which is selective observation.


* * *


Joeman,

Congradulations. God hated you before you were even born, like the same way he hated Esau. (Romans 9:11-24)

That is impossible to prove, without God giving confirmation about hating me.

 

[Athelwulf]

This is a statement of negative faith, but still faith. You don't know whether there indeed is noone to answer prayers.

Actually, there's no faith involved. I don't believe there's a god. There's a difference between "I believe there's no god" and "I don't believe there's a god". The former is a statement of faith, the latter is a statement of the lack thereof.

And saying that I don't know there's no one is the same as saying I don't know there aren't leprechauns. I'll admit, though, that you could still theoretically be right on that call, for we could say we don't know if there indeed aren't leprechauns.

And Christians aren't fanatics?
A little thing called the Crusades comes to mind...

Two fallacies in one: a strawman and a selective observation.
1. You believe that whatever is done in God's name, is indeed so ordained and condoned by God. Which is a strawman argument.
2. You ignore the good works Christians have done. Which is selective observation.

Whether or not Hapsburg believes the Crusades were supposedly condoned by God, he didn't state that specifically. He simply is showing that Christians can indeed be fanatics. And although Christians have done plenty good for the world, that's not to say the other stuff is excusable.

 

[Jenyar]

You are blaspheming. You are practically saying that a person can command God around, at will.
"I believe in Christ, so God, save me!" No way.

It's not blasphemy. You can ask that from God because He allows you to. He wants you to realize you need Him and then accept His salvation by believing Him.

Romans 10:9-10
That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.​

 

[stretched]

Quote w:
“What is this supposed to mean?”

* My subjective opinion only, combined with freedom of speech.

Quote w:
“Why not? It's mere observation. Evolution theory preaches survival of the fittest, natural selection -- so how can we seriously oppose any non-universalist view if we accept evolution?!”

* Not to be taken seriously to the extant that it causes discomfort.

Quote w:
“You would have a case if this god would do BOTH harm and WELL to the SAME person, at the same time, preferrably.”

* Do you think Adam suffered no psychological trauma when god asked him to sacrifice his son, Abel? God knew all along he was only pulling a bluff. Are you saying that under the right circumstances atrocities like killing infants is acceptable?

Quote w:
“And on what basis can you judge anything to be "unforgivable and unnecessary"?

* On what basis can you “hate” Christians?

Quote w:
“And? What authority do you have, and over whom?”

* Hehe. I have “total” authority over myself, my emotions, beliefs and what I consider to be important.

Original quote stretched:
“You cannot love with the one hand and kill with the other.”

Quote w:
“Where do you live? Because it isn't planet earth.
You have let modern woossiness infect you and take over you.”

* My statement is in the context of the Biblical god. Do you see the Bible (OT and NT) as a message of love?

"And Israel joined himself unto Baalpeor: and the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel. And the LORD said unto Moses, 'Take all the heads of the people and hang them up before the LORD against the sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away from Israel.'" (Numbers 25:3-4)

* This was the punishment for worshipping other gods. This god is one loving MFer!

* As an aside, I live in a violent society, and I see violence and death more often than most, I am not naïve to reality. The only time I get woozy is when I overindulge in chocolate. Hehe.

Quote w:
“Neither you nor I know fully what they know.”

* If by “they” you mean Christians, I agree. But I know enough, and have enough confidence in my integrity to DISCARD what I consider absurd. Remember, we are not talking “spirituality” here. We are talking Christian god stuff.

Quote w:
“And, yah, that's awfully nice of you. Preach "But if you love and accept yourself enough, you need never hate anybody else." and then preach pitying others.”

* You are confusing two distinct issues. Essentially anything under the sun, including Christianity, is not worth the energy of “hatred”. In my opinion what you are searching for lies in a totally opposite direction. It lies within yourself, not with some god out yonder. The pity I display is my compassion regarding the pain Christian doctrine causes some folk regarding their own honesty, integrity and self esteem.

Allcare.

 

[Adstar]

You are blaspheming. You are practically saying that a person can command God around, at will.
"I believe in Christ, so God, save me!" No way.

Yes way. There is your problem, you cannot accept the Love of the Truth. you don't believe in the grace of God through Jesus. Do you think God will consider your prayers when you through His loving gift back in His face like that?

You have no right to hate Christians. You have no right to hate God.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

It seems God has not hardened water. yet.

Have are we to know?

I was careful with my words i said "seems" I did not say if God had or had not i only said the thought i had on you.

You said people can believe in God without being Christian. You are very right. But as a follower of Jesus i believe Jesus when He said:

John 14
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

If what i believe is true. Then your prayers will never be considered if you do not embrace the Love Of The Truth.

So you are suggesting I should just utter words that have no meaning for me?
Or, maybe, bang my head against the wall for so long until it gets soft enough to believe and say anything?

Not suggesting either. You cannot fool God. He knows if someone is genuine or not. You cannot force yourself to believe anything. All you can do is read the Words of Jesus understand He is the Way to salvation and accept Him and have eternity with God.

It is God who grants faith, and I'd be superstitious trying to believe on my own accord.

You do believe in God. So you do have faith that God is. Otherwise you would not be jealous of Christians.

What does it mean to "embrace The Love of Truth"? Staring at a crucifix and somehow trying to make myself think this is it, I am "embracing The Love of Truth"?

The Love of the Truth is the Love of the Message of salvation for sinners won through the atoning death of the Word Made Flesh my Messiah Jesus. To believe in Jesus is to embrace the love of The Truth, The Love of God, demonstrated by the life and words of Jesus.

All praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[lixluke]

It has come to my attention that only atheists are allowed to preach in the religion forum.
How?
To say that religions are not allowed to preach is the same thing as saying only atheists are allowed to preach.

We would like atheists to simply be a person that is absolutely certain there is no such thing as any God or gods, and defend this notion logically. Unfortunately that atheists are typically not simply that, but fanatical control freaks that impose atheism left and right. Why not just accept the fact that you are fanatics. You do not ONLY have this belief as the definition states.

You are not:
A person that simply has a belief, and is defending it.

You are:
You are fanatics that impose other proponents to atheism such as the belief that atheism is the logical belief system while religion is not. That has nothing to do with atheism defined. That is self-righteous fanaticism. Atheism defined is no more and no less than what the definition states. It is not a logical belief system, it is not science, it is not controlling people's right to preach. You claim you don't hate religion, because you do not believe in it and could care less about it. The amount of bull in that is obvious because if you truly lived by that you would care less if people preached or not. You are typical atheist fanatics. Accept it.

 

[SkippingStones]

cool skill,

You seem to be focused on solely inflamatory acusations.

What would you have people be, and why?

Please be positive.

 

[water]

Adstar,

Yes way. There is your problem, you cannot accept the Love of the Truth. you don't believe in the grace of God through Jesus. Do you think God will consider your prayers when you through His loving gift back in His face like that?

No, I don't believe in the grace through Jesus.
I cannot make myself believe that.

You have no right to hate Christians. You have no right to hate God.

Do you think I don't know that? Knowing that I have no right to hate Christians is what fills me with such anger, resentment and hate.

Not suggesting either. You cannot fool God. He knows if someone is genuine or not. You cannot force yourself to believe anything. All you can do is read the Words of Jesus understand He is the Way to salvation and accept Him and have eternity with God.

Yes, and it doesn't happen for me.

You do believe in God. So you do have faith that God is.

But it is not enough and it doesn't get me anywhere.

The Love of the Truth is the Love of the Message of salvation for sinners won through the atoning death of the Word Made Flesh my Messiah Jesus. To believe in Jesus is to embrace the love of The Truth, The Love of God, demonstrated by the life and words of Jesus.

I cannot make myself love this.

 

[water]

stretched,

“Why not? It's mere observation. Evolution theory preaches survival of the fittest, natural selection -- so how can we seriously oppose any non-universalist view if we accept evolution?!”

* Not to be taken seriously to the extant that it causes discomfort.

?!

You want a *fight* for survival that is *comfortable*?

* Do you think Adam suffered no psychological trauma when god asked him to sacrifice his son, Abel? God knew all along he was only pulling a bluff. Are you saying that under the right circumstances atrocities like killing infants is acceptable?

You mean Abraham intending to sacrifice Isaac?

Whom was the test intended for -- did God just play a trick on Abraham, or was there a purpose to this test?

* On what basis can you “hate” Christians?

On the basis of envy.

* My statement is in the context of the Biblical god. Do you see the Bible (OT and NT) as a message of love?

I do not know where you get the idea from that the Bible is the "message of love". It is the hippy way to see it, but it's not biblical.

"And Israel joined himself unto Baalpeor: and the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel. And the LORD said unto Moses, 'Take all the heads of the people and hang them up before the LORD against the sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away from Israel.'" (Numbers 25:3-4)

* This was the punishment for worshipping other gods. This god is one loving MFer!

So? You don't tolerate rats in your house either.
And you deem yourself to be loving?

* If by “they” you mean Christians, I agree. But I know enough, and have enough confidence in my integrity to DISCARD what I consider absurd. Remember, we are not talking “spirituality” here. We are talking Christian god stuff.

Well, if God has not blessed you with understanding of Him, then you can indeed talk shit too, like me.

But keep in mind that we are not blessed with understanding, while some people are.

* You are confusing two distinct issues. Essentially anything under the sun, including Christianity, is not worth the energy of “hatred”.

Don't be silly. It's not about what is worth of hatred. Humans hate.

In my opinion what you are searching for lies in a totally opposite direction. It lies within yourself, not with some god out yonder. The pity I display is my compassion regarding the pain Christian doctrine causes some folk regarding their own honesty, integrity and self esteem.

Looking for God somewhere outside of yourself, disconnected of yourself, is idolatry. Idolatry is the best way to lose your honesty, integrity and self-esteem.

 

[Joeman]

Water, it appears to me that you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. You should calm down and relax. Oh wait, you are going to argue about that too

 

[lixluke]

I do not want to be part of the "atheist congregation". They either argue against some strawmen gods and blame other people for their disbelief in God, or they know God, but don't care.
Neither of these is a viable option for me.

You might as well join them anyway. You come from pretty much the same perspective towards God.
Look at the following atheist comment:

Discarding organised religion is the first step in self-acceptance and self-love.

As you can see, you have to accpet and abide by your true atheist nature. Soon you will be a good little atheist just like all the rest.

cool skill,

You seem to be focused on solely inflamatory acusations.

What would you have people be, and why?

Please be positive.

I'm not focused on inflamitory anything.
I'm stating it how I see it.
If you are going to be self-righteous, fanatical, and imposing, stop claiming that you are not self-righteous, fanatical, and imposing.

How many times have I seen atheists say something like "I'm not fanatical or self-righteous, and I really don't want to impose anything. I just simply . . . blah blah blah impose impose impose."

"I don't want there to be preaching" - Atheist imposition.
"Atheism is rational, and religion is not" - Atheist self righteous fanaticism.
"Religion does not belong on a science forum." - Atheist imposition. Self righteous fanaticism.
"We are not fanatical. Atheism is the lack of belief, and nothing more." - So act like it, and stop yammering your extra fanatical ideas about atheism other than that.
"Christians are gullible and naive." - Self righteous fanaticism that has nothing to do with the definition of atheism.
"As I have stated before, Atheists never try to impose their beliefs on Christians. It takes time for a Christian to see the error of his ways" - Super atheist conversion tactic.


AN ATHEIST PREACHER AT WORK:
You’ve come a long way. Nothing wrong with expressing your feelings. But if you love and accept yourself enough, you need never hate anybody else. Discarding organised religion is the first step in self-acceptance and self-love. Any religion or doctrine that preaches the redemption of only a select few, and talks in terms of eternal damnation does not deserve to be taken seriously.

In a nutshell to summarise the morality of Christianity, whatever the circumstances from a historical perspective, the atrocities committed (as described) by the Christian god in the OT is unforgivable and unnecessary. Christian doctrine states that this god is also Jesus.

Therefore, whatever this religion stands for, or says it stand for, is not what I stand for. You cannot love with the one hand and kill with the other. DISCARD. So maybe one should rather feel sorry for Christians who are happy, or blind enough to worship a god of this nature.