I'm trying to prevent a murder-suicide. He has proven to everyone that he can control himself. His therapist agrees. He doesn't want to all the time because there is no reason we can give him to.
I am considering brainwashing to fix my son: religious experiment.
- Thread starter jayleew
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I'm trying to prevent a murder-suicide. He has proven to everyone that he can control himself. His therapist agrees. He doesn't want to all the time because there is no reason we can give him to.
religion and churches can go either way. jesus only goes one way. i don't like lies in general, but jesus christ, you wanna talk about fear, i would never ever lie to you or anyone about this. this isn't about using your judgement to decide the likelihood of god's existence. this is about knocking on a door, and having a certain amount of faith that if god's really there, he'll open it.
And WTF is he going to say when he opens the door?
He does not love you enough such that hurting you would have no effect on him?
is this supposed to mean that you have tried reaching out to god?
i speak from sheer experience. i haven't gotten what i know out of a book.
i'm being responsible with my testimony are you? or are you just selfishly testifying to how jaded you are?
to me, he said, "i love you", and then proceeded to follow me around for the rest of my life holding a mirror to my face, and convincing me that what i saw in it matters.
No, I won't shut the fuck up.
My rage is not blind, it's right. Because, I am completely aware of what you are suggesting. This is not one of those threads which you enjoy spewing your 'Jesus saved me' sickness all over to justify your pathetic excuse of existance.
This is a real life situation with a problematic child which the father obviously reached a breaking point.
'Praying' for a loved one and suggesting Jesus for a little boy as a solution, who is clearly in need of serious medical/psychological attention are two completely different things. And you are out of line.
Go masturbate your 'Jesus my personal savior', 'power of prayer', 'their differences with the religion' and 'your philosophy' in another thread.
incorrect. it's explaining what the basis of the morals are and why. even most of the morals in religion have a reason.
because god says so, is not objectively real either. even the ten commandments state thou shalt not kill but obviously there is killing in the bible using it's own justification or because of self-defense.
I am sorry to hear about your situation, I have 3 boys myself who have been raised without religion or physical punishment and have turned out wonderfully (I know this doesn't help you at the moment, sorry). I don't know the details of your parenting or your son but I have to say this whole idea is a copout. You can't or shouldn't base your parenting on a lie.
If he seems nice and understanding to you in person then you need to start digging to find out what the problem is. Threatening him with eternal damnation does not address any problem, at best it suppresses it..
Two issues. One is ODD, which in his case it is his inability to control himself once he sees injustice done to him. Two, is his immaturity, which in his case is his inability to ascertain the nature of a situation if it involves himself. It's an ignorance on his part to believe that he is broken and might be the cause.
He needs to come to the understanding that he is broken and that's okay as long as he is willing to do his best to prevent and clean up his messes.
He knows he is broken inasmuch as it provides him a scapegoat. I suspect he will have no escape from God.
yeah, let's douse the kid with pharmaceuticals and try to convince him to have faith in this fucked up world. genius. because you know that's working so well.
And what book might that be, little Missy? The bible, perhaps? If you think that I am limited in my knowledge of such, then you are entirely mistaken.
you mentioned there is no reason for you to give him to control himself. that means you are lacking any sense of moral responsiblity or construing it as a personal whim. how about that his actions can hurt another and just as himself has feelings and would like others to respect him or not hurt him, so do others?? does this not make sense?
how about discipline? do you discipline so that his actions have repercussions? because he needs to be aware that there are laws out there for a reason and he can't just do anything to anyone just because he feels like it just as others don't have a right to either.
as far as religion, it did have it's place at one time because it order to create laws or cohesion, some semblance of an authority figure that represents everyone had to be the source or created. this is why 'because i say so', does not work but an all powerful figure does to some extent. but even with this, most of the laws and mores must be identifiable and understandable to the recipient to gain any acceptance. so the concept of god works in that context. in your situation, if you are not able to understand the basis of morality then religion may be something that can be used in your case.
what seems so awful is that you are not able to relay that there are consequences for actions and that others have to be responsible just as he does, even if empathy for others is something he does not understand. he needs to know the world does not revolve around him but he does have rights. if he doesn't learn it from you, he will learn it from the law after he leaves home. then it will really wake him up.
how about discipline? do you discipline so that his actions have repercussions? because he needs to be aware that there are laws out there for a reason and he can't just do anything to anyone just because he feels like it just as others don't have a right to either.
as far as religion, it did have it's place at one time because it order to create laws or cohesion, some semblance of an authority figure that represents everyone had to be the source or created. this is why 'because i say so', does not work but an all powerful figure does to some extent. but even with this, most of the laws and mores must be identifiable and understandable to the recipient to gain any acceptance. so the concept of god works in that context. in your situation, if you are not able to understand the basis of morality then religion may be something that can be used in your case.
what seems so awful is that you are not able to relay that there are consequences for actions and that others have to be responsible just as he does, even if empathy for others is something he does not understand. he needs to know the world does not revolve around him but he does have rights. if he doesn't learn it from you, he will learn it from the law after he leaves home. then it will really wake him up.
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It is Lew who is making this decision.
any book, little mister. if you'll notice, for all your reading, you still don't know god.
I don't understand it. He does love us and doesn't want to do this to us. He is always hugging us and grabbing our hands to hold. He sees the consequences after the fact, but that does little to deter him. He continually hurts us over and over by displeasing or disobeying, but it is not enough of a deterrent. He puts up sketches all over the house of his favorite dinosaurs with "From Paul to Dad. There is no effective deterrent. We all have our motivations that deter us from doing wrong, but he has none. If he thinks you are wrong or have done him wrong, then anything is worth it to prove it, even if that means he has to hurt you in the process. That is how he treats others.
Jayleew,
I have been sitting on the sidelines for awhile here at Sciforums but your OP got me back.
I have a 7 year old mild-autistic child. The very first thing we learned from the professionals is to not treat him any different then our older daughter. No free pass due to his condition. He takes no meds but at times can be very tough to work with.
He is also very smart, reading above his grade level etc etc.
IMO, it sounds as if you have let this get out of control and need to reign it in.
However, the last thing that I would ever F8cking do EVER is let someone else push their agenda on my child nor would I push an agenda or experiment on him. The best thing you can do is keep it all real.
Hell, if you want to scare him take him to the meanest streets near your home and let him see what life will be like without an education or if he turns to drugs etc. That will scare him. Take him to a prison. Sleep out on the mean streets one night if you feel like it. That will scare the crap out of both of you.
Is that what you really want ?
I bet you would get more success from a week long camping trip where you get him out in the real world, make him preform tasks where the alternative is going hungry or having no shelter because he didn't work with you as a teammate.
Or some other team building exercise regiment with him where he is required to work with others or face a self created punishment.
Another point brought up earlier is to use positive direction instead of just punishment.
Does he have any hobbies ? Like any sports ? Anything at all where he can spend his time focused on this or that task. IOW keep him busy so he doesn't have time to get in trouble.
At 9 he should be doing some activity which he likes 2-3 times a week minimum.
Any punishment needs to be explained in such a way that he understands that HE is the cause and earned it and the way to avoid it in the future is to not repeat the behavior.
Seriously, you and your wife need help in this situation. I know it's very hard and I am not going to call you incompetent parents. But this approach is unacceptable to me. If someone suggested to me that I should do what you are suggesting with my kids I would tell them to get the F8ck out. Period.
I have been sitting on the sidelines for awhile here at Sciforums but your OP got me back.
I have a 7 year old mild-autistic child. The very first thing we learned from the professionals is to not treat him any different then our older daughter. No free pass due to his condition. He takes no meds but at times can be very tough to work with.
He is also very smart, reading above his grade level etc etc.
IMO, it sounds as if you have let this get out of control and need to reign it in.
However, the last thing that I would ever F8cking do EVER is let someone else push their agenda on my child nor would I push an agenda or experiment on him. The best thing you can do is keep it all real.
Hell, if you want to scare him take him to the meanest streets near your home and let him see what life will be like without an education or if he turns to drugs etc. That will scare him. Take him to a prison. Sleep out on the mean streets one night if you feel like it. That will scare the crap out of both of you.
Is that what you really want ?
I bet you would get more success from a week long camping trip where you get him out in the real world, make him preform tasks where the alternative is going hungry or having no shelter because he didn't work with you as a teammate.
Or some other team building exercise regiment with him where he is required to work with others or face a self created punishment.
Another point brought up earlier is to use positive direction instead of just punishment.
Does he have any hobbies ? Like any sports ? Anything at all where he can spend his time focused on this or that task. IOW keep him busy so he doesn't have time to get in trouble.
At 9 he should be doing some activity which he likes 2-3 times a week minimum.
Any punishment needs to be explained in such a way that he understands that HE is the cause and earned it and the way to avoid it in the future is to not repeat the behavior.
Seriously, you and your wife need help in this situation. I know it's very hard and I am not going to call you incompetent parents. But this approach is unacceptable to me. If someone suggested to me that I should do what you are suggesting with my kids I would tell them to get the F8ck out. Period.
Yes, she remains a believer. But, she does not do much to confirm the belief.
Ya, I think I figured that out, smart one. I’ve already given my opinion on it.
Religious nut said:
Nope. Can't say that I do. However, I have sufficient knowledge of the claims that men have made about god.
I’m taken a break. Enjoy your day!
