I am considering brainwashing to fix my son: religious experiment.

[John99]

Any transgression against your fellow man, whether it's a white lie to murder. Most of us have something that stops us from doing wrong, but it is something internal. There is a handful of things that we draw from, not to determine that something is ethical, but whether or not to act regardless of if it is right or wrong. My son has this, but can get out of mind at times with emotion and irrationality. If he had something like the fear of God, perhaps that would help him make the right decisions, even if he thought whatever it was is right....like throwing a chair at someone. He does these things because he believes it is the right thing to do.

He doesn't have the ability to see that he walked into the pile of crap. It doesn't have any smell.

Telling a "white lie" is evil?

Anyway, it is nearly impossible to tell how an 8 yo will turn out based on his actions. Like i said he can be very immature, whatever maturity level an 8yo should be at. The main thing is: is the boy intelligent?

 

[jayleew]

Why not let him face some consequences now, instead telling him that he’ll face them in a make believe afterlife. Being consistent is always good.

Like what and how?

The best we have tried is to simulate jail at home which was to deny all his privileges when it was convenient for him. The only thing we didn't have was a lock on the door, but that would be child abuse for sure.

True, consistent is good which means I will have to act like a Christian for him to get the message. Punishments right now are so consistent that he knows what to expect and executes the punishments himself like going to bed early or staying off the computer before I get home and tell him he's busted.

 

[jayleew]

Telling a "white lie" is evil?

Anyway, it is nearly impossible to tell how an 8 yo will turn out based on his actions. Like i said he can be very immature, whatever maturity level an 8yo should be at. The main thing is: is the boy intelligent?

Without question. His psychiatrist, psychologist, and teachers have said the same thing. If he weren't so intelligent, then they could deal with his behavioral issues in the standard way they deal with kids who have emotional or social disabilities. But, he is smart, so they can't put him in special ed. There is no place in the school system that exists for this type of child. Just Google ODD parents and you'll find countless other parents who'll agree.

But, the problem is not only at school. He just doesn't get so explosive at home as he respects me. I'm fear for when he doesn't. He treats everyone else with disrespect. If you are not coldly firm and loving, he'll walk right over you. He's already hit and kicked teachers.

 

[ejderha]

It's no joke....what are you saying people who go to church should be arrested? People who need Jesus to help their sons and daughters should be arrested? Are you serious? I'm just suggesting family therapy. I don't want to do it, but my son needs it.

You are aware that your topic reads as "I am considering brainwashing to fix my son; religious experiment." aren't you?


wiki: Brainwashing:

"Mind control (also known as brainwashing, coercive persuasion, mind abuse, thought control, or thought reform) refers to a process in which a group or individual "systematically uses unethically manipulative methods to persuade others to conform to the wishes of the manipulator(s), often to the detriment of the person being manipulated". [1] The term has been applied to any tactic, psychological or otherwise, which can be seen as subverting an individual's sense of control over their own thinking, behavior, emotions or decision making."

"Theories of brainwashing and of mind control were originally developed to explain how totalitarian regimes appeared to succeed in systematically indoctrinating prisoners of war through propaganda and torture techniques."


All your sons behaviour shows that YOU and your wife failed him to this age. If a 9 years old child is constantly and violently acting up, it's because there is something wrong in his environment. Either he is being neglected, abused, or has known no boundries good or bad. If there isn't any other certain cause anywhere else, it's because of the parents.

You are talking about a 9 years old child! The only thing you need is patience and theraphy if needed and finding out why he is acting that way. But your first idea of solution is 'putting the fear of god in him'?! And you expressed this thought with words as "brainwashing" and "experiment". He is a human being not your toy or a lab rat!

Family thearphy is something completely different, look it up!

And just because he had the unfortunate begining to life with your and your wifes chromosomes, that never means he is your poperty.

People like you, must not allowed to have any children. Your children should be taken from you, because you are a potential child abuser.

 

[Trooper]

True, consistent is good which means I will have to act like a Christian for him to get the message.

What? Only Christians are consistent? Instead of teaching him about delusional consequences that he’ll face in an afterlife, why don’t you teach him about the consequence he’ll face in life? It sounds like he’s beginning to develop antisocial behavior. He’ll face plenty of consequences from society itself.

 

[John99]

But, he is smart, so they can't put him in special ed.

In my school they did, but then i am referring to high school.

There is no place in the school system that exists for this type of child. Just Google ODD parents and you'll find countless other parents who'll agree.

I am not an expert on this subebject (OCD\ODD etc.) That said, people dont really fit into a little box that you can describe with three letters. Especially true for children and is not to say that various forms of "issues" dont have common symptoms.

But, the problem is not only at school. He just doesn't get so explosive at home as he respects me. I'm fear for when he doesn't. He treats everyone else with disrespect. If you are not coldly firm and loving, he'll walk right over you. He's already hit and kicked teachers.

So then there is a difference. At that age kids are very tied into their parents as being what they relate to as being a safe\familiar environment. My first day of kindergarten they dragged me in kicking and screaming, i peed my pants in front of the whole class (which at that age is not so bad) but i just couldnt relate to what was happening. I have some memory of running down a long hall heading for a steel door and smashing into it only to find the door locked. My school had bars on the wiondows too. But honestly i related to the squirrels out the school window much more than the other children. Although i never hit or was violent and in this case is the main thing you need to focus on. I think this kid needs a wake up call on what it is like to be on the other end. One way is to set it up so that the kid knows what it is like to be bullied. Maybe you can have someone he doesnt know give him a little education in this because he is not always going to get away with that behavior so he can see for himself what happens and what WILL happen. BUT monitor the situation from a distance so he doesnt know you are there. Then he may come and tell you what happened and you can say "see?".

 

[Lori_7]

Horse shit.

Atheist morality is the only true form!

It's objectively real, because we understand that actions have real world consequences, and choose to do as we would be done by.

Theists on the other hand try to act nice because they fear the retribution from some sky pixie.

oh, horse shit right back at you. take the blinders off and look around. can you honestly tell me that morality is working (religious or atheist)?

it's not working fool.

 

[Lori_7]

jayleew,

i know you don't believe this, but you wouldn't be lying to your son. religion doesn't fix people, nor morality, obviously, but jesus does. it's not about controlling outward behavior with fear. it's about changing what's going on inside of him, that makes him behave this way. jesus can do what you, religion, and morality can not do. i know because he's done it to me, and i'm not afraid of anything.

i hope the best for you and your family.

 

[jayleew]

All your sons behaviour shows that YOU and your wife failed him to this age. If a 9 years old child is constantly and violently acting up, it's because there is something wrong in his environment. Either he is being neglected, abused, or has known no boundries good or bad. If there isn't any other certain cause anywhere else, it's because of the parents.

You are talking about a 9 years old child! The only thing you need is patience and theraphy if needed and finding out why he is acting that way. But your first idea of solution is 'putting the fear of god in him'?! And you expressed this thought with words as "brainwashing" and "experiment". He is a human being not your toy or a lab rat!

This is not the first solution, but the millionth over 5 years. He is in therapy, he takes Focalin, and he goes to a special school program. He is only acting this way because he knows he only gets punished for being bad or rewarded for good behavior. They are meaningless because in a given situation, he does not recognize any weakness on his part. Anything is worth doing what he feels is right. Consequences are meaningless, because whatever he is fighting for, which is more often a thinking error, is worth fighting for. He is always the victim and he will use his label ODD as a get out of jail free card. He's not acting out for no reason, he is always provoked I forgot to mention that. His heart is pure, his logic is flawed. This most recent time, he insists he did nothing wrong.

People like you, must not allowed to have any children. Your children should be taken from you, because you are a potential child abuser.

Oh don't worry about that, we learned our lesson and stopped at two. His older sister is such the polar opposite, how were we to know to stop there? The difference in parenting is that we taught her about God.

Do you want to take him for a day? Be my guest, but don't say I didn't warn you. It's folks like you that underestimate him that lose him quickly.

 

[Trooper]

i know you don't believe this, but you wouldn't be lying to your son. religion doesn't fix people, nor morality, obviously, but jesus does. it's not about controlling outward behavior with fear. it's about changing what's going on inside of him, that makes him behave this way. jesus can do what you, religion, and morality can not do. i know because he's done it to me, and i'm not afraid of anything.

Oh My God! Jesus Christ! Gimme a break! :mufc:

 

[jayleew]

You are right, he needs a wake-up call. And this is it..."there is a god and he's watching you and routing for you. Turn it around for god or face the judgment of sin."

That's all we got left to try.

 

[Trooper]

You are right, he needs a wake-up call. And this is it..."there is a god and he's watching you and routing for you. Turn it around for god or face the judgment of sin."

That's all we got left to try.

Oh My God! Jesus Christ! Gimme a break! :mufc:

 

[NMSquirrel]

now let me be the voice of reality..

you may never be able to 'fix' him..

that said..

religion as a generic fix..will not work..IOW don't expect the first church you attend to help..there are churches out there that have a focus on certain problems. to find them will be work..(not all of them realize this is their focus.)

but like it was said (i think by you) you will have to step up to set the example..
do not listen to those who are quick to blame you for your failures..you sound like you are trying, in the end when he grows up this will count..it doesn't matter if you fail, it matters that you try..homeschooling may be best in the short term until he gets the maturity to attend public school..

punishment doesn't work if the kid gets used to it..
(my grand daughter is like that..punishment is worthless to her..she is stubborn)

personal experiance from others may give you clues of how to deal with the issue..

psychologist will help, medication may help..(i am a medicine minimalist..)

i think its just a matter of survival till your son can get the maturity needed to have some self control..
and on the note..

i often tell my daughter if she doesn't utilize self control someone else will..
it starts with parents, then teachers, cops and ultimately god.(notice friends are not on this list)

getting some program/show to scare them straight may help..
but again it may be temporary..(maybe longer term temp..but temp none the less)

i use terms like 'may' because every kid is different..what works for one may not work for yours..

attending church will work only in the form of 'it takes a village to raise a child'.
this lines up with the consistency advice..it wont help if you are telling your child one thing and someone else is telling him the opposite..(again this is where church may help..but not just any church)

if the whole world is telling him 'this' then eventually he will listen

have you tried coffee(or energy drinks)? caffine has been know to help a kid calm down,specially in ADHD kids.

hope this helps..

 

[Enmos]

Well, hopefully that fear of retribution will work and be assimilated into his existence, then later in life regress to normal altruism. It worked for me, my daughter is fine, I guess why not for my son.

What makes you think you can force religion on your son..
I am assuming that your use of the word 'brainwashing' wasn't serious, because if it was that's sick.
You can teach your son about religion but only for the right reasons. You can't expect him to go for it, it is something he needs to work out for himself.
Also, it sounds to me as if you are searching for an easy way to compensate for your shortcomings as a parent.

 

[jayleew]

Oh My God! Jesus Christ! Gimme a break! :mufc:

Or we can just sit back and leave it to chance. So what if you look at him funny and he comes up and stabs you because he thinks you want to kill him. That is how he thinks. He knows right from wrong, but he thinks wrong is right when it means he gets screwed. Or, just if he thinks he is getting screwed, he'll disregard ethics.

 

[ejderha]

jayleew,

i know you don't believe this, but you wouldn't be lying to your son. religion doesn't fix people, nor morality, obviously, but jesus does. it's not about controlling outward behavior with fear. it's about changing what's going on inside of him, that makes him behave this way. jesus can do what you, religion, and morality can not do. i know because he's done it to me, and i'm not afraid of anything.

i hope the best for you and your family.

Are you for real?

What the fuck is wrong with you people?

We are talking about a nine years old child with a serious problem. He needs hard rock patience and serious therapy. What are you suggesting that he sould do?

Make a life size image of Jesus and wait for him to perform a miracle?
To make him memorise the Bible out loud?
Oh, may be he is "possessed", why don't you tie boy to a bed hand a help with an exorcism.
Wait no, he should purify him with fire, then make him kiss a blood crying Mary statue thousand times a day.

This is fucking unbelievable. And the most unbelievable part is that you religious freaks demanding any kind of respect. And blaming atheists of being full of hatred. You are so disgusting and infuriating, all of you deserve to be hated. You are poisonous and lack the slightest respect or love for human life.

You all should be banned by law from aproaching any human being under 21, let alone allowed to have any children of your own.

 

[Enmos]

punishment doesn't work if the kid gets used to it..
(my grand daughter is like that..punishment is worthless to her..she is stubborn)

Punishment never works. Not the way you want it to work anyway.
Children (and everyone else really) respond much better to positive reinforcement.

 

[jayleew]

now let me be the voice of reality..

you may never be able to 'fix' him..

that said..

Thanks, everything you said is how I intend to proceed and I need to think some more on it.

But, for now we are going to set up this experiment. If we move on it, it will be the toughest solution to implement, especially for me.

 

[Trooper]

Or we can just sit back and leave it to chance. So what if you look at him funny and he comes up and stabs you because he thinks you want to kill him. That is how he thinks. He knows right from wrong, but he thinks wrong is right when it means he gets screwed. Or, just if he thinks he is getting screwed, he'll disregard ethics.

Try different treatments, not Jesus.

Antisocial Personality Disorder

 

[ejderha]

jayleew

I seriously can stand this anymore. I am hypersensitive about children and animals and it's making me sick and angry to read some 'religious freak' posts.

And if you love your child, dedicate your life to him, no matter how difficult, painful and excruciating it is and BE PATIENT. He is just a child and he is your child, you can't give up on your child.