How it is like to have a Muslim in your Family ?

Muhammeds' supposed illiteracy is a myth that attempts to give the quran more validity.

SahihalBukhari

Quote:

(The Book of Knowledge)

No. 65 - Narrated Anas bin Malik:

Once the Prophet wrote a letter or had an idea of writing a letter. The Prophet was told that they (rulers) would not read letters unless they were sealed. So the Prophet got a silver ring made with "Muhammad Allah's Apostle" engraved on it. As if I were just observing its white glitter in the hand of the Prophet
--------------------------------------

(The Book of Exegesis of the Quraan)

No. 4214 - Narrated 'Aisha:

When the last Verses of Surat-al-Baqara were revealed, the Prophet read them in the Mosque and prohibited the trade of alcoholic liquors. "If the debtor is in difficulty, grant him time till it is easy for him to repay.." (2.280)
Narrated 'Aisha: When the last Verses of Surat-al-Baqara were revealed, Allah's Apostle stood up and recited them before us and then prohibited the trade of alcoholic liquors.
--------------------------------------

(The Book of Exegesis of the Quraan)

No. 4455 - Narrated Zaid bin Thabit:

When we collected the fragramentary manuscripts of the Qur'an into copies, I missed one of the Verses of Surat al-Ahzab which I used to hear Allah's Apostle reading. Finally I did not find it with anybody except Khuzaima Al-Ansari, whose witness was considered by Allah's Apostle equal to the witness of two men. (And that Verse was:)
'Among the believers are men who have been true to their covenant with Allah.'
--------------------------------------


(The Book of Medicine)

No. 5374 - Narrated 'Aisha:

Allah's Apostle used to read in his Ruqya, "In the Name of Allah" The earth of our land and the saliva of some of us cure our patient with the permission of our Lord." with a slight shower of saliva) while treating with a Ruqya.
----------------------------------------

(The Book of Jihaad)

No. 2747 -Narrated Anas:

When the Prophet intended to write a letter to the ruler of the Byzantines, he was told that those people did not read any letter unless it was stamped with a seal. So, the Prophet got a silver ring-- as if I were just looking at its white glitter on his hand ---- and stamped on it the expression "Muhammad, Apostle of Allah".
----------------------------------------------------

(The Book of Jihaad)

No. 2748 - Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Abbas:

Allah's Apostle sent his letter to Khusrau and ordered his messenger to hand it over to the Governor of Bahrain who was to hand it over to Khusrau. So, when Khusrau read the letter he tore it. Said bin Al-Musaiyab said, "The Prophet then invoked Allah to disperse them with full dispersion, (destroy them (i.e. Khusrau and his followers) severely)".
----------------------------------------

(The Book of Jihaad)

No. 2749 -Narrated Abdullah bin Abbas:

Allah's Apostle wrote to Caesar and invited him to Islam and sent him his letter with Dihya Al-Kalbi whom Allah's Apostle ordered to hand it over to the Governor of Busra who would forward it to Caesar.....etc.
-------------------------------------------

(The Book of Jihaad)

No. 2779 - Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

Abu Sufyan said, "Heraclius sent for me when I was in 'llya' (i.e. Jerusalem). Then he asked for the letter of Allah's Apostle and when he had finished its reading there was a great hue and cry around him and the voices grew louder and we were asked to quit the place. When we were turned out, I said to my companions, 'The cause of Ibn Abi Kabsha has become conspicuous as the King of Bani Al-Asfar is afraid of him.' "
-----------------------------------------

(The Book of Military Expeditions)

No. 4107 - Narrated Ibn Abbas:

Allah's Apostle sent a letter to Khosrau with Abdullah bin Hudhafa As-Sahmi and told him to hand it over to the governor of Al-Bahrain. The governor of Al-Bahrain handed it over to Khosrau, and when he read the latter, he tore it into pieces. (The sub-narrator added, "I think that Ibn Al-Musaiyab said, 'Allah 's Apostle invoked (Allah) to tear them all totally Khosrau and his companions) into pieces.
---------------------------------------------

(The Book of Knowledge)
No. 115 - Narrated 'Ubaidullah bin 'Abdullah:

Ibn 'Abbas said, "When the ailment of the Prophet became worse, he said, 'Bring for me (writing) paper and I will write for you a statement after which you will not go astray.' But 'umar said, 'The Prophet is seriously ill, and we have got Allah's Book with us and that is sufficient for us.' But the companions of the Prophet differed about this and there was a hue and cry. On that the Prophet said to them, 'Go away (and leave me alone). It is not right that you should quarrel in front of me." Ibn 'Abbas came out saying, "It was most unfortunate (a great disaster) that Allah's Apostle was prevented from writing that statement for them because of their disagreement and noise. (Note: It is apparent from this Hadith that Ibn 'Abbes had witnessed the event and came out saying this statement. The truth is not so, for Ibn 'Abbas used to say this statement on narrating the Hadith and he had not witnessed the event personally. See Fath Al-Bari Vol. 1, p.220 footnote.) (See Hadith No. 228, Vol. 4).
Click to expand...
Here is part of a discussion from islam online which explains this misconception

Muhammad's illiteracy

An analysis of the word ummi. This word is interpreted to
most Muslims as meaning illiterate, but this word has
various meanings.

"The word comes from the same root letters as ummah, a
very common word in the Qur'an, meaning a people,
community or nation, and Arberry significantly translates
the whole expression an-nabiyyal-ummi as "the Prophet of
the common folk". The word ummah never simply means an
illiterate community but it can well mean an uneducated
community and it appears to carry this meaning on one or
two occasions in the Qur'an, though in a special context."

Throughout the Qur'an the Jews and Christians collectively
are called Ahlal-Kitab, meaning "People of the Scripture",
and a cursory study of the contrast drawn in the Qur'an
between this group and the ummiyyun, the "unscriptured
people", shows that the ummi prophet means the prophet of
the people without a scripture, that is, one raised from
among them and to give them a book with sound religious
education.

Noldeke shows that the word ummi is everywhere used in the
Koran in apposition to Ahl ul-kitab, that is the
Possessors of the Sacred Scriptures; therefore it cannot
signify one who does not read and write; but one who did
not possess or who had no access to former revelations.
One verse in the Qur'an very comprehensively shows that
this is precisely the image Muhammad had of himself as the
an-nabiyyal-ummi:
Click to expand...

here
 
All the letters of Mohammad were dictated by Mohammad and written down by Ali. Mohammad could not read too. It seems Gabriel had tough time in making him to recite the Quran completely with him, for verification, once in every year except the last year of Mohammad. In the last year it was recited twice. Mohammad was shrewd enough to understand the end coming.!
 
Proud Muslim,

I have several friends who converted from Islam to Christianity, I can ask their opinion about the likelihood of Muslims not converting. My church converts a lot of Muslims, you'll be pleased to know!
 
I have often wondered what difference it made that Mohammed was supposedly illiterate since that means you can't read. It doesn't mean you can't think. Since Mohammed was dictating, he could easily have concocted the verses themselves in his imagination, he just needed someone to write them down.
 
Bells said:
Thank you PM for answering me.

Now that we have established that it was written by man (as in the companions who wrote it down from Muhammad's recitation), is it at all possible that these companions may have misinterpreted what was told to them by Muhammad?
Click to expand...

It was not written by man !! it was transfered from the prophet mouth into papers by his companions, and no, it is NOT possible that these companions may have misinterpreted what was told to them because the prophet himself was supervising what they were writting.
 
Paula said:
Proud Muslim,

I have several friends who converted from Islam to Christianity, I can ask their opinion about the likelihood of Muslims not converting. My church converts a lot of Muslims, you'll be pleased to know!
Click to expand...

I have so many friends who converted from christianity ( the false religion ) to Islam ( the one true religion ) and they liked it so much !!

As to your friends, I know you are lying, nothing new for christians !!
 
Proud_Muslim said:
It was not written by man !! it was transfered from the prophet mouth into papers by his companions, and no, it is NOT possible that these companions may have misinterpreted what was told to them because the prophet himself was supervising what they were writting.
Click to expand...
Ok. Let me break this down for you PM. You state that it was not written by a man. But then you go on to state that it was transfered from the prophet's mouth onto papers by his companions. Now for that transfer to paper to take place, it would have to have been written, wouldn't you say?

And pray tell, how is it possible for Muhammad to supervise what was written down when he was illiterate?

Muhammad was born in Makkah in the year 570. Since his father died before his birth and his mother died shortly thereafter, he was raised by his uncle who was from the respected tribe of Quraysh. He was raised illiterate, unable to read or write, and remained so till his death.
http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-8.htm
Click to expand...

First, he was illiterate !! How can an illiterate person come up with such a rich, poetic, intellectual, and inspiring text that it rocked the entire Arabia ?
http://www.zawaj.com/knowledge/quran/whowrote.html
Click to expand...

Unless of course the rules have changed and Muhammad is now no longer seen to be illiterate? Misinterpretations and misunderstandings always happen PM and it is entirely possible that it may have occured when the scribes were jotting down what was told to them by Muhammad.
 
Proud_Muslim said:
I have so many friends who converted from christianity ( the false religion ) to Islam ( the one true religion ) and they liked it so much !!

As to your friends, I know you are lying, nothing new for christians !!
Click to expand...
Why would she be lying? Because she would dare say that she knows of some Muslims who have converted to Christianity? Degenerate!
 
Personally, I find the idea of converting from one religion to another totally disgusting. I belong to a Muslim family, but I am not a Muslim. I would never go and embrace some other religion.

All religions have problems but still people find a reason to convert from one to another!
 
PrinceOfDarkness said:
Personally, I find the idea of converting from one religion to another totally disgusting.
Click to expand...
What about the idea of totally renouncing your faith and become an athiest or agnostic?

PrinceOfDarkness said:
All religions have problems but still people find a reason to convert from one to another!
Click to expand...
People see what they want to see, man. Unless they are forced to convert. The way Mohammed used force to mass convert the pagans of arabia.
 
Last edited:
PrinceofDarkness,

People convert for different reasons, fall away from faith and return or fall away and don't, I even have a couple of friends who were raised as atheists who now belong to my church. Since my church sponsors many missionaries and we sometimes have to relocate Muslim apostates for their safety, it has given me the opportunity to meet many former Muslims who now embrace Christianity. I only bring it up because Proud Muslim makes such ridiculous, all-encompassing statements such as "no Muslim would ever convert" and "Christians everywhere are converting to Islam" but the numbers don't back him up.

I personally don't care how many people convert to my religion since size does not equal truth. There were once more slave owners than abolitionists in the US but it didn't make slavery right. I just enjoy catching Proud Muslim in his silliness.

Changing your faith is not the equivalent of repudiating your culture. Although I do not know anyone who has gone from Christianity to Islam I've known people to go from Christianity to Baha'i, Buddhism or Judaism but keep their family ties, cultural practices and patriotism intact. I don't think changing faiths needs to be a big conflict, especially if your new faith improves your life.
 
Paula said:
PrinceofDarkness said:
Personally, I find the idea of converting from one religion to another totally disgusting.
Click to expand...
People convert for different reasons, fall away from faith and return or fall away and don't, I even have a couple of friends who were raised as atheists who now belong to my church. Since my church sponsors many missionaries and we sometimes have to relocate Muslim apostates for their safety, it has given me the opportunity to meet many former Muslims who now embrace Christianity.
Click to expand...
I think PrinceofDarkness is disgusted that besides death threats, exiles, abuse, & disownments many muslims are still leaving Islam and converting to other religions.


  • http://www.exmuslim.com/egypt.htm

    Declaration by the Christian Converts of Egypt

    October 26, 2003

    Cairo, Egypt

    “No to falsification. . .yes to freedom of belief”

    “Equality for all: Christians embracing Islam, and Muslims embracing Christianity” “No to torture and jailing of converts”

    IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT.

    For many years, we have been struggling for the simplest of our human rights, the freedom of belief and the freedom of worship.

    We have been imprisoned, tortured, followed by the security police and subjected to all forms of abuse for our faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

    But in Jesus, our lives and behavior are so much better. Many among us were terrorists, Islamist fundamentalists. We were burning churches, killing, dealing with our whole society as apostates. But after we put our faith in Jesus, we became pacifists, bonded to our nation, living as best we could.

    But despite this change for the better, our Islamic government does not accept the changing of our religion from Islam to Christianity.
 
DoctorNO!
I never had any faith. I don't remember what I used to believe when I was 6 years old, but with all the memory I have, I can clearly say I never had any faith. I was taught Islam by my family and society, but in the beginning I only questioned its validity and as I grew up I realized that these people make so many assumptions that its impossible for me to ever be a Muslim.
For the people who become atheists and leave their religion, it depends on what do they think about atheism. For me atheism is nothing but just the state of having no faith, making no wild assumptions, having no trust in history, etc. If people take atheism as a faith itself, then its surely disgusting!
I am not sure if Muhammad used force or anything. The problem is that Muslims present Muhammad as a superhuman, a man with no weaknesses and who never made any mistakes. When the christians and other people hear this again and again, they start accusing Muhammad of all things, from looting of caravans to the use of force to convert people to Islam. What you people don't realize is that the Arab of that time was perhaps like hell on earth. People used to give their wives as inheritance to their sons. Women were sold and purchased just like bread. The rich had plenty of slaves, which they used to beat whenever they liked. There was no law. It was a violence loving society. Muhammad used minimum force and the most peaceful measures to convey his message. I won't elaborate more on it, since I don't think what I read in my history books is entirely correct. I do however believe that Muhammad wasn't as bad as some of the people think!

Paula!
The Muslims you see on internet discussion forums are mostly insane (sad but true). I've been to many discussion forums and believe me I was banned on 2 of them, both owned by Muslims. I was accused of blasphemy on both of them, and all I did was to criticize claims such as Quran is a miracle, and say that science never proved God exists. (Muslims say very often that science has proven God exists.)
They think that Islam is destined to rule, Muhammad was the best person ever. However, a lot of people differ, including me. They keep on sending messages that irritate people to an extent where they lose their temper and start accusing Muhammad of committing crimes, and Islam of being a violence loving religion. No one really is sure about the truth. Muhammad was a holy figure for many and that is why the history has been intentionally corrupted. Those who were against him, must've made false accusations in response to the Muslim historians who portray Muhammad as a superhuman. This is the very reason I don't trust history!
You are right that if changing of faith improves someone's life, then its good. I've observed that most converts are basically inspired by someone close to them, who repeatedly claims that his/her religion gives peace to the soul. I don't know what happens to them after they convert, but I really think that conversion is not a good idea.
 
PrinceOfDarkness said:
For me atheism is nothing but just the state of having no faith, making no wild assumptions, having no trust in history, etc.
Click to expand...

I guess that makes you more an agnostic than an athiest.

Agnosticism is the belief that we dont have the means to prove the existence or non-existence of God. When asked if there is a god we agnostics proudly say WE DONT KNOW.
 
DoctorNO said:
exMuslim Christians? Here check them out....

www.apostatesofislam.com

www.exmuslim.com

www.faithfreedom.org
Click to expand...

Ex christians !! here check them out:

http://www.why-christians-convert-to-islam.com

http://www.convertstoislam.org/

http://www.jesusthemuslim.com

http://www.welcome-back.org

http://www.sharif.org.uk/converts.htm

http://thetruereligion.org/modules/xfsection/

http://www.islamfortoday.com/converts.htm

http://www.islamicweb.com/begin/newMuslims/

http://www.jesus-or-allah.com

yusuf_b4.jpg

Skip Estes - Christian Musician Minister - 1988

We had been told:
"They don't believe in God;
They worship a black box in the desert and;
They kiss the ground 5 times a day."
Mozlems?? = Terrorists! Hijackers! Kidnappers! Pagans!

If you are an American Christian - you have to hate them! - All of them! -- So I did!

yusuf_skyline.jpg

Sheik Yusuf Estes -- Muslim Chaplain - 2000
Many people, Muslim and Non-Muslim alike, ask me the question:
"Chaplain Yusuf, how did you come to Islam?"
Well neighbor, here's my story. . .
Take your time and read a while. You may be surprised and you just might learn something new today --> ISLAM

http://www.todayislam.com/yusuf/success.htm
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top