How is faith in God attained?

[Medicine*Woman]

A good solid prophesy usually has some kind of time measurement associated with it. For example, Jesus predicted that he would rise after three days in the presence of his disciples. "Therefore, when He had risen from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this to them; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had said." (John 2:22)

See? It was that simple. Jesus makes a prophesy with a time measurement in place. The prophesy happens as described. And the disciples now have their proof of Jesus and his word.

*************
M*W: Well, it didn't happen exactly like that. Jesus wasn't gone for 3 days. The myth goes that he was put on the cross at 3 pm, and was taken down at 6 pm on Friday. He was in the tomb (or wherever) until 6 am Sunday morning. That's a total of only 36 hours... not 3 days. But, then, it's just a myth.

 

[ashura]

I have received nothing with a date attached but i have received something that you might one day see.

There is am island in the Mediteranian called Santorini. But it is also the peak of a stratovolcano called Thera. When i received this dream about Thera i did not even know such a place existed. I did a google search to find it. Anyway this place is going to erupt with incredible force and cause great destruction, it will also darken the sky. I believe this will happen within my life time. It could be the cause of the darkening of the sky predicted in the end time in the book of revelation.

Sorry i cannot give you a time and date. But this will be so big when it happens that i am sure you will remember the words that i have said here. That is if you are still alive at that time.

Where do you live superluminal?



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Why would God give you that (so-called) prophetic dream and not someone else? You'd think it would be better served convincing a non believer than it would be reaffirming a current believer.

And why give something as vague as 'A volcano will explode sometime.' That's about as impressive as saying the sun will go up tomorrow morning.

 

[Dinosaur]

They had some primitive notions about counting in those days.

M*W: Well, it didn't happen exactly like that. Jesus wasn't gone for 3 days. The myth goes that he was put on the cross at 3 pm, and was taken down at 6 pm on Friday. He was in the tomb (or wherever) until 6 am Sunday morning. That's a total of only 36 hours... not 3 days. But, then, it's just a myth.

Friday, Saturday, Sunday: Three (count them) days.

When my childrn were counting on thier fingers, I had to get them to start with no fingers (for zero) or they got it wrong. 2000 or so years ago, they started a count with one instead of zero when they put him on the cross at 3PM. Same mistake my kids made when they were 5 years old.

 

[SnakeLord]

2000 or so years ago, they started a count with one instead of zero when they put him on the cross at 3PM. Same mistake my kids made when they were 5 years old.

So... grown educated adults 2000 years ago were the equivalent of modern day 5 year olds?

 

[Sarkus]

They had some primitive notions about counting in those days.Friday, Saturday, Sunday: Three (count them) days.

When my childrn were counting on thier fingers, I had to get them to start with no fingers (for zero) or they got it wrong. 2000 or so years ago, they started a count with one instead of zero when they put him on the cross at 3PM. Same mistake my kids made when they were 5 years old.

Right - and this primative notion of counting in now way enabled them to build some of the most remarkable structures that still exist today, or to create calendars, or become the founding rock of mathematics (Pythagoras died around 500BC, Archimedes died 212BC etc - a long time before the New Testament was written).

But no - these primitive notions about counting prevented them from all sorts of things.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

They had some primitive notions about counting in those days.Friday, Saturday, Sunday: Three (count them) days.

When my childrn were counting on thier fingers, I had to get them to start with no fingers (for zero) or they got it wrong. 2000 or so years ago, they started a count with one instead of zero when they put him on the cross at 3PM. Same mistake my kids made when they were 5 years old.

*************
M*W: Do you have some back-up for the way people counted 2000 years ago?

I maintain that it was only 36 hours involved (but who's counting since it's a myth?). It may have spanned Fri, Sat and Sun, but it was not 3 full days. If you look at the beginning a a Full/New Moon, that, too, covers about 36 hours. The middle day is the fullest, but it's hard to tell on either side of the full moon that it's not really full even though it appears to be.

I'm not so sure I can agree with your ancient counting system, since those wonderful folks down at the holy roman empire gave us Roman Numerals, so their counting system was pretty good.

 

[Adstar]

Finally! After a whole bunch of dodging, you have actually given us something that we can test! Now we just have to wait until your 'lifetime' is over to see if your a fraud or not.

What do you mean dodging???? What have i been dodging?

Think about this test. If The island blows up then people can still say well it was a stratovocano and he was just taking a punt. they could say something like this.

Quote ashura:
And why give something as vague as 'A volcano will explode sometime.' That's about as impressive as saying the sun will go up tomorrow morning.

And this:

I foresee a tornadoes in Kansas, a hurricane sometime in the future in Florida, an earthquake in California, a fire in New York City some ghetto apartments, are not all these apparent to happen, just like some volcano will erupt in some future time. Come on you can do better. How about lotto numbers, death of a famous celebrity this year, how many more American will die in Irag this year, when are the troops coming home, stuff like that would be credible if predicted with precession of dates, and events. Other than that it's just random occurrences, like predicting it will rain in Houston Texas within next week.

See... This is not a test that you can test anything buy because when Thera goes bang you can say well it was a volcano wasn't it.. Like the sun coming up in the morning it was always going to go bang sooner or later. You can say, This guy just took a punt on it going bang in his life time. lol See there is always a way for that those who refuse to believe to use their logic to explain away anything.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

Volcanic eruption of Thera. Like the one that has already happened?

"The devastating volcanic eruption of Thera has become the most famous single event in the Aegean before the fall of Troy. The eruption would likely have caused a significant climate upset for the eastern Mediterranean region. It was one of the biggest volcanic eruptions on Earth in the last few thousand years."

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santorini

Yeah i have read a quite a bit about Thera after i had the dream. She is one mean woman when she goes off. They say she caused a tidal wave that destroyed a great deal when she went off last time.

I suppose it will have to be a great eruption if it is to block out one third of the suns power. But then she might be one of the factors that achieves that measure. I still like the meteor impact theory that i get from reading the book of Revelation.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

Why would God give you that (so-called) prophetic dream and not someone else? You'd think it would be better served convincing a non believer than it would be reaffirming a current believer.

Why carn't God give me a personal prophetic dream?? If He wishes to reasure me to give me strengh. I believe Jesus, I embrace His love for me. God Loves me and gives me personal loving reasurance. I am just human He understands.

And why give something as vague as 'A volcano will explode sometime.' That's about as impressive as saying the sun will go up tomorrow morning.

Your not impressed?? Well maybe its not for you, Maybe it is only for those who have ears to hear. See it's a sign that can be explained away by those who refuse to accept God. Maybe that’s what God want's. Did you ever think that God would want those who hate His will a Chance to explain away something so that they could remain in disbelief?

Lets think about this shall we. What if God appeared unmistakably in the sky and flew all over the world giving sight to all the blind so that everyone could witness this undeniable sign from God. Then lets say they all watched as he turned around and snapped His finger at the moon and the moon went kaboom and disintegrated into nothing in a blinding flash of light.

So all of those who hated the will of God would be forced to bow to the will of God not out of agreement with God but because of the might and power of God. They would still hate God and loath His will but they would follow His will begrudgingly because they would have no hope of successfully overthrowing the authority of God.

Do you think this is what God wants? People to follow Him out of fear of retribution but deep down hating every living moment being under His authority? I don't I think God wants people to follow Him because they joyfully embrace His will as pure and good because they are in awe of His wisdom and righteousness. How does one attract people who love the truth, you give them the Message that they will embrace with Joy. People who do so do not need any sign. Those who need signs the Message is not enough.

Zechariah 4:6
"Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit, says the Lord of Hosts."


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

That's pretty funny. I think there's always a way for those that value their intelligence and integrity to see self deluded fantasy for what it is.

Here's a serious question for you. By what reasoning should we give your mystical vision of volcanic ejaculation any weight?

Use any kind of reasoning you like to come to whatever conclusion your mind desires. You will come to the conclusions that your mind desires to come to.

And if (and when) the volcano blows its top, why should we connect this occurrance with your particular vision? Did you see it vent gas? Were there lahars associated with it? Was there lava, or was it just a steam explosion? Did the ash cloud destroy any particular cities or towns? What was the registered Richter measurement?

My dream did not include those particulars, so i cannot answer your questions.

Here's a true story for you.

About a year before the shuttle Challenger blew up, I had a dream. In the dream, I saw a shuttle launch. A few seconds into the launch one of the solid rocket boosters failed and the shuttle tipped over and exploded.

Even though the specifics are a bit vague, the real Challenger explosion was due to a faulty solid rocket booster.

I even told people about my dream way before it even happened.

Why do you think I would have such a dream???

I have no idea.

Do you believe your dream was a vision foretelling of a future event?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

As will you. Very good Adstar. You're beginning to understand.

Oh i have understood for a long time that there are people who will never believe or accept the Gospel message superluminal. I would say that most of the athiest posters who contribute to this section of the forum will never accept Jesus as their Lord and Redeemer. That is how it is and i accept what will be will be. I happen to believe that some who may follow these threads might be open to the Message and that what i give might help them in their seeking of the truth. And even if i never help anyone here i know my faith has grown stronger because of the resistance i have experienced here. All things work for the good of those who love the truth, even when it seems to be hard road we travel.

Not at all.

Us engineers were discussing failure modes that day, and I had been watching some program on the shuttle. My mind just connected the two and made up a story.

Well there is a difference between your dream and my dream. I had no idea that a volcano called Thera existed, let alone that it was an island in a sea and that most of it was under water. I had no idea about its past history or how violent and powerful it could be.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[ashura]

Do you think this is what God wants? People to follow Him out of fear of retribution but deep down hating every living moment being under His authority? How does one attract people who love the truth, you give them the Message that they will embrace with Joy. People who do so do not need any sign. Those who need signs the Message is not enough.

Someone who loves the truth would be skeptical of any strange and unnatural claims and would want to see some shred of evidence before he or she lent any faith towards it. This is because they want the truth, and not simply an easy convenient excuse for it.

I don't see where you get that someone who loves the truth would simply agree to a message with no signs.

And please, don't give me that. If God didn't want people to have fear of retribution, we wouldn't have the concept of Hell. He would've simply left us with the good and the righteousness and this message you keep talking about, and not have given us the threat of eternal torture if we didn't agree.

You see his message of good yes, but you blindly ignore his message of oppression. "Bow down before my will, or you will suffer for eternity."

 

[SnakeLord]

See... This is not a test that you can test anything buy because when Thera goes bang you can say well it was a volcano wasn't it.. Like the sun coming up in the morning it was always going to go bang sooner or later. You can say, This guy just took a punt on it going bang in his life time. lol See there is always a way for that those who refuse to believe to use their logic to explain away anything.

Not if you said it would go bang at 3:15pm on Sunday the 5th March 2009. If it did come about you'd be taken a lot more seriously than just saying a volcano will erupt one day, ("I think it will happen in my lifetime.." - 'think' is not prophecy, it's guesswork based upon nothing but your own imagination)

 

[nova900]

And please, don't give me that. If God didn't want people to have fear of retribution, we wouldn't have the concept of Hell. He would've simply left us with the good and the righteousness and this message you keep talking about, and not have given us the threat of eternal torture if we didn't agree.

You see his message of good yes, but you blindly ignore his message of oppression. "Bow down before my will, or you will suffer for eternity."

An excellent point! It's not about hating "gods will" at all. Many people like myself who do believe in God have trouble with the bibles' harsh and cruel vision of God. Throughout large portions of the bible the idea of being fearfull of god,and being threatened with eternal hellfire are constantly reinforced on the reader.
It's all quite easy to understand when you know the history of the ancient hebrews and why they decided to depict God as an angry tribal war god.
It's called...control!

 

[Adstar]

Someone who loves the truth would be skeptical of any strange and unnatural claims and would want to see some shred of evidence before he or she lent any faith towards it. This is because they want the truth, and not simply an easy convenient excuse for it.

I don't see where you get that someone who loves the truth would simply agree to a message with no signs.

And please, don't give me that. If God didn't want people to have fear of retribution, we wouldn't have the concept of Hell. He would've simply left us with the good and the righteousness and this message you keep talking about, and not have given us the threat of eternal torture if we didn't agree.

You see his message of good yes, but you blindly ignore his message of oppression. "Bow down before my will, or you will suffer for eternity."

I take His message in it's totality. I accept it all. I do not disregard the "good" just because of the part of the message that is harder to digest.

The fact is that Hell has never been a good selling point when it comes to faith. More people are put off God because of hell than are attracted to him because of Jesus. Hell at best is a zero sum gain when it comes to bringing people to the truth. But having said all that i cannot deny the eternal Lake of fire as a real thing.

And you message of oppression? How effective is it in here???? not very effective is it. See fear of the lake of fire cannot sustain faith. No one who builds their faith upon the foundation of fear ever lasts long in the faith. Because people naturally do not want to live their lives in fear. The message that does survive as a foundation is the Message of Jesus.

People who believe Jesus don't fear the lake of fire.

The only possible oppression comes on those who believe in hell without believing Jesus.




All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

Not if you said it would go bang at 3:15pm on Sunday the 5th March 2009. If it did come about you'd be taken a lot more seriously than just saying a volcano will erupt one day, ("I think it will happen in my lifetime.." - 'think' is not prophecy, it's guesswork based upon nothing but your own imagination)

There you go you have got all bases covered just in case Thera goes bang. You can always say it was just co-incidence and that Adstar guy just made a good guess.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[SnakeLord]

There you go you have got all bases covered just in case Thera goes bang. You can always say it was just co-incidence and that Adstar guy just made a good guess.

Uhh.. I havent covered any bases, I merely pointed out that some more details would probably lead more people to consider your claim as an actual prophecy.

If this volcano did happen to go bang we would need to look at probability first and foremost because you have provided no other details.

"A volcano might erupt during my lifetime"

Is my statement there worth anything? Not really, and yet that's all you've done, (while adding a few embellishments to make the story sound cooler - something that all humans do), and seemingly expect everyone to just take you at your word.

Give us a time and date.

 

[Adstar]

Uhh.. I havent covered any bases, I merely pointed out that some more details would probably lead more people to consider your claim as an actual prophecy.

If this volcano did happen to go bang we would need to look at probability first and foremost because you have provided no other details.

"A volcano might erupt during my lifetime"

Is my statement there worth anything? Not really, and yet that's all you've done, (while adding a few embellishments to make the story sound cooler - something that all humans do), and seemingly expect everyone to just take you at your word.

Give us a time and date.

"A volcano might erupt during my lifetime" I have given you more than that. I have given you the name of the volcano. I would love to give you the time and the date. I would love to know the time and the date myself, But the only way i am going to get the time and date is If God gives it to me. Maybe it is not Gods will to give it to me because i would then give it to you in a flash. Maybe God does not want to make it an undeniable sign. For then you will believe in God because of the sign and not because of the Message of God.

But then again maybe God will give me the time and date. I can only guess at the will of God on this one. Be assured SnakeLord if He does give me the time and the date i will give it to you right away.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

PS: God gave an undeniable sign to Paul when he was an enemy of God. So God has done this before.

 

[IceAgeCivilizations]

God does work in wonderful mysterious ways.

 

[Dinosaur]

Strange that you should ask, M.W.

M*W: Do you have some back-up for the way people counted 2000 years ago?

I thought that counting three days from 3PM Friday to some time Sunday morning suggested that there were those who did not know how to count in certain contexts.

So... grown educated adults 2000 years ago were the equivalent of modern day 5 year olds?

I would not expect a modern five year old to be more competent than an adult of 2000 years ago in a broad test of intellectual skills. Apparently some modern 5 year olds can count to three better after just a bit of training. Three days from Friday 3PM to Sunday morning: I rest my case!

Right - and this primative notion of counting in now way enabled them to build some of the most remarkable structures that still exist today, or to create calendars, or become the founding rock of mathematics (Pythagoras died around 500BC, Archimedes died 212BC etc - a long time before the New Testament was written).

But no - these primitive notions about counting prevented them from all sorts of things.

In about 200 BC, Eratosthenes and some of his contemporaries knew the Earth was a sphere and calculated its size within in few percent. The average person 1000 years later still thought the Earth was flat. The typical person in a culture usually has no clue about the technology of his own culture.

Those who wrote the gospels did not design viaducts, roads, or other technology of their era. Today we have a culture which built lasers, computers, airplanes, et cetera. Yet many who run cash registers cannot figure out correct change on their own.