How does one address a Pharisee?

[Lori_7]

MW,

Come on now...a debate forum may contain opinion, based upon literature, biased or unbiased, or personal experience, or anything else for that matter. Take a look at your own posts...and the posts of many others. The Bible is the most well-known, cited, talked about, written about, referred to book in history. There have been more Bible's sold and read than any other book in history. There's a christian church on every street corner and a Bible in every hotel room. They used to hand them out as text books in our schools, and the founding fathers of the United States used to have prayer meetings on the senate floor. And what do you refer to? A few wacked websites about Paul being the anti-christ? Give us a break! And your assumption is dead wrong...his mission is not to convert atheists and other non-christians, but to share honestly what he has experienced in this life and learned from it. If you find that to be threatening, that's your own fault. Lighten up would you?

Sorry to speak for you c2o, but that is MY OPINION anyway.

 

[c20H25N3o]

Make your petition if you must. You will have to provide hard evidence. I'm sure James R is an intelligent guy who will see that you are trying to ban me because you do not like me talking about my faith because it is not your faith. By trying to ban me you are saying, "See our God is bigger than yours because we can ban you and shut you up".
Go for it.

peace

c20

 

[Medicine*Woman]

c20H25N3o: Make your petition if you must. You will have to provide hard evidence. I'm sure James R is an intelligent guy who will see that you are trying to ban me because you do not like me talking about my faith because it is not your faith. By trying to ban me you are saying, "See our God is bigger than yours because we can ban you and shut you up". Go for it.
*************
M*W: You haven't provided any hard evidence for what you preach! It's your constant preaching without providing evidence for debate. Didn't you read the rules about preaching? I don't care what other people believe. As long as they don't preach, I enjoy reading what they write -- in fact, I may learn something I didn't know. There is no way I am trying to say "my god is bigger than your god," since I don't believe in the existence of a god. Again, you lie and you preach. We all know about christianity on this forum. We don't need your constant preaching. If we wanted to be christians we would be christians. Most of us have been christians and we saw the truth. Christianity wasn't the truth. Why do you continue to preach about your delusional God?
*************
James R. c20's delusional preaching is becoming quite annoying. I pasted the rule for him about preaching on sciforums, but apparently c20 hasn't read it, nor has he provided any scholarly evidence to back it up. c20 is not able to debate matters we present to him. He just preaches and pushes christianity even more. His posts would offer genuine topics for debate if he would just provide the evidence. Failing that, his fate is in your hands.

 

[SnakeLord]

You will have to provide hard evidence.

It is so bloody amusing to see these words coming from the mouth of a person who has spent his whole time here informing us of the importance of faith, and the inherent worthlessness of 'evidence'.

Now do you see why faith is not an option for a sane human? Do you see that an integral part of being a human is the need for evidence? Do you now perhaps realise how futile it is trying to turn humans against that which is an extreme part of what they are? Do you see how what you say goes against the very principles of humanity?

And thus, in telling us to accept these things on faith, you're telling us to be less than human.

 

[Lori_7]

Evidence, evidence!!! You guys are like broken records! And what evidence may I ask do either of YOU offer up for anything you believe?????? Where is YOUR evidence??? A Christian can refer to the Bible just as you can refer to any book or website. A Christian can refer to personal experience regarding a spiritual interaction or phenomenon just as anyone else can, including an abductee, a telepathic, a lucid dreamer, or the like. A Christian can refer to the same events and things of this world and offer up an interpretation of them, or an understanding of them according to their own perception, just like you can. You want to act as if YOU are unbiased??? HA!!! Everyone is biased. Everyone has their own limited perceptions and their own paradigms. The only being who's opinions and offerrings are unbiased is God Himself. As a matter of fact it is your own bias which is causing you to post this ridiculous request regarding c2o in the first place.

If you will actually read the forum rules that you posted *handing you some eyeglasses and a hooked on phonics textbook*, they were created to prevent flaming behaviour. Now look at c2o's behaviour. Nope, no flaming there. I would have to say that c2o is probably the most mild-mannered, humble, and meek poster out here. Maybe you should petition to have me banned, or yourself banned, or snake banned or probably anyone else before c2o.

You say that c2o does not answer your questions, and that is a lie. He answers your questions honestly, respectfully, and in accordance with what he has been taught through life experience, the Holy Spirit, and the Bible. He does not claim to be right all of the time. He values the opinions of others, and says so often. And he in no way shape or form belittles anyone, says he's better than anyone else, or tries to shove his beliefs down anyone's throat.

What's the matter MW? Been thinking about Jesus lately? Is it bugging you? I can't imagine why you feel so threatened by c2o, as he has never voiced a threat of any kind or anything even close to it. So what exactly is making you feel so threatened?

 

[c20H25N3o]

It is so bloody amusing to see these words coming from the mouth of a person who has spent his whole time here informing us of the importance of faith, and the inherent worthlessness of 'evidence'.

Now do you see why faith is not an option for a sane human? Do you see that an integral part of being a human is the need for evidence? Do you now perhaps realise how futile it is trying to turn humans against that which is an extreme part of what they are? Do you see how what you say goes against the very principles of humanity?

And thus, in telling us to accept these things on faith, you're telling us to be less than human.

Snakelord. This is a religion forum. The main debate here is between atheism and theism. I have written what I have written with a clear conscience and without malice. I happen to have a belief in God. Plain and simple. I see God in the life and resurrection of Jesus Christ who is the one spoken of in the Holy Scriptures as authorised by the Vatican in Rome. It is this Jesus whom I have been speaking of. Jesus as you know is the central figure at the very heart of Christianity, the faith I profess. I profess my faith here because the title of the forum is 'Religion' of which Christianity certainly comes under as a category in the context of a message board forum. I have found that from the outset I have been attacked here on SciForums for talking about my faith in a Sub Forum entitled 'Religion'. I have not deleted any of my posts and anyone may judge how I have been treated for themselves for professing my faith in God albeit in a Christian context. As Lori_7 quite rightly points out, we have Christian churches everywhere we go. It is the largest faith in the modern world today. At the heart of Christianity is the figure Jesus. What would you have me speak of? I talk about the life and death and ressurection of Jesus Christ and I try to put it in a modern day context so that people may understand what Christianity is all about. It is about love. We say God is Love. We defend our God when He comes under attack, not because we feel He needs defending, but because it grieves us to here it. In defending God we are soothing our own spirits which find the blasphemies that are uttered an abomination. God blesses us in our faithfulness. I tell you this but you deny me. You say I am delusional. I tell you I am not. I believe that you dont believe me. I know that you do not believe me. But what of it? What is that to me? Should I stop talking about Christianity in a Religion sub forum because you and a few others do not believe me? I do not need others to support me here, to justify me. I do not need to provide evidence as you put it. I am not here to provide evidence to you or anyone else! Who do you guys think you are? This is a free forum available to the public but you treat it like it is your personal domain. You do your best to make people feel uncomfortable expecially people professing a Christian faith. I have put up with much patiently as others will testify. I am called a hypocrite when I have a different point of view as someone else! Why because I am a Christian? What Christians aren't allowed the same rights as other people now? Christian's arent allowed to have a different view as someone on here without being called a hypocrite? What rubbish. Grow up a bit. Wipe the cack out of your eyes. You are just forum post monkeys. Just like me. Everyone's opinion has gotta be respected right? That means mine too folks. You guys do not own this website as much as you like to think you do, it is run by David Watanabe in Melbourne, Australia who I would like to thank for making this website available to us. Thank Him too yeah? And let's be nice. It is free after all.

peace

c20

 

[SnakeLord]

Evidence, evidence!!! You guys are like broken records!

Faith, faith!!! You guys are like broken records... :bugeye:

And what evidence may I ask do either of YOU offer up for anything you believe?????? Where is YOUR evidence???

Oh, what exactly is it that I believe Lori?

A Christian can refer to the Bible just as you can refer to any book or website. A Christian can refer to personal experience regarding a spiritual interaction or phenomenon just as anyone else can, including an abductee, a telepathic, a lucid dreamer, or the like. A Christian can refer to the same events and things of this world and offer up an interpretation of them, or an understanding of them according to their own perception, just like you can.

And zero testability. If you want to test whether gravity is real, you need do little else than throw an apple in the air. This can be tested by everyone. The same is not true for gods, leprechauns and flying bananas.

What science offers is fully testable. That is where science and religion differs.

Snakelord. This is a religion forum. The main debate here is between atheism and theism. I have written what I have written with a clear conscience and without malice.

I never said otherwise. I merely pointed out the humour in seeing a man who shouts "faith" so often would be so quick to scream "evidence" when it suits him. If you disagree, kindly point out where in this post I have said you have been malicious or that this forum is not about religious debate. If not, kindly apologise for your implications to the contrary.

I happen to have a belief in God. Plain and simple. I see God in the life and resurrection of Jesus Christ who is the one spoken of in the Holy Scriptures as authorised by the Vatican in Rome. It is this Jesus whom I have been speaking of. Jesus as you know is the central figure at the very heart of Christianity, the faith I profess. I profess my faith here because the title of the forum is 'Religion' of which Christianity certainly comes under as a category in the context of a message board forum. I have found that from the outset I have been attacked here on SciForums for talking about my faith in a Sub Forum entitled 'Religion'. I have not deleted any of my posts and anyone may judge how I have been treated for themselves for professing my faith in God albeit in a Christian context. As Lori_7 quite rightly points out, we have Christian churches everywhere we go. It is the largest faith in the modern world today. At the heart of Christianity is the figure Jesus. What would you have me speak of?

You can speak of whatever you want to. Kindly show where I have said otherwise. I think you've mistaken me for someone else, and as such, you're having a fit at the wrong person. I simply pointed out the humour in your earlier statement.

I talk about the life and death and ressurection of Jesus Christ and I try to put it in a modern day context so that people may understand what Christianity is all about. It is about love. We say God is Love. We defend our God when He comes under attack, not because we feel He needs defending, but because it grieves us to here it. In defending God we are soothing our own spirits which find the blasphemies that are uttered an abomination. God blesses us in our faithfulness. I tell you this but you deny me. You say I am delusional.

Kindly show me where I called you delusional. If you can't, kindly apologise.

I tell you I am not. I believe that you dont believe me. I know that you do not believe me. But what of it? What is that to me? Should I stop talking about Christianity in a Religion sub forum because you and a few others do not believe me?

Where did I say or imply you should stop?

I do not need others to support me here, to justify me. I do not need to provide evidence as you put it.

And this is where I found humour. You're statements of "i do not need to provide evidence", and yet you switch to completely opposite sides when someone brings you into the equation. As a result I asked you if you now understood why the rest of us demand evidence, but your eyes are seemingly blind to anything ending with a question mark.

I am not here to provide evidence to you or anyone else! Who do you guys think you are? This is a free forum available to the public but you treat it like it is your personal domain.

The thing is.. I simply expressed the humour I found in your statements, which is my right on this 'free public forum'. As a consequence, what are you arguing against? You say you have no rights yada yada yada yada, when not once have I denied you those rights - but instead you feel like having a go at me for using those very same rights you have. This is being a hypocrite. You shout to the right to speech, which I have never denied you, and then complain that I'm using my right to speech. And you dare tell me to grow up?

 

[pavlosmarcos]

c20, but you cant refrain from preaching, can we please have a question and answer session, it would be fun.
instead of what we are getting from you all the time.

lori 7, as you must know when you've debated in the past, you make a statement, and somebody replies, you reply back, and if the need be, to back yourself up, you supply reference material, do you not.
but c20, does none of this, hence why we are all so pissed off with him.
so we have all come to the end of our tether, enough is enough.
we all want to get back to the debate, and enjoy it again.
yes I know we could ignore him, but then you cant follow the threads properly.

 

[water]

Medicine Woman,

You have discredited yourself long ago to be still taken seriously in your petitions.

 

[pavlosmarcos]

I and many others would back her whole heartedly, she has never discredit herself in our eyes, sorry rosa your wrong.

 

[Lori_7]

Snakelord and M*W and to all whom this may concern,

I had a little interaction with the Holy Spirit this evening, and thought it noteworthy and relevant to this thread. I was in the tub and stewing over how frustrating you can be with your demands for evidence, and then respective denial of it. And God reminded me of something that c2o told me not too long ago, and that is "God loves an asker"...and then of all of the times that you have asked for evidence..."evidence, Lori, evidence!". You are going to get what you are asking for...you're going to get a dumptruck load of evidence. And since you are asking via this websight, it's coming via this websight...and since you're asking of me, it's coming through me. Be patient...as I have...it won't be much longer. After all, you can't rush perfection. I wonder what you'll do with it when you get it? Deny it as you have all of the rest that He's given you? There is evidence of God everywhere...all around you. Or this time...will you actually seek a relationship with Him? Will you actually use the evidence to obtain knowledge of Him? We shall see...soon.

And my reference...

In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.

Acts 2:17-18

Oh, and that's from a book called The Holy Bible...ever heard of it?

Love,

Lori

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Lori_7: Snakelord and M*W and to all whom this may concern,

I had a little interaction with the Holy Spirit this evening, and thought it noteworthy and relevant to this thread.
*************
M*W: My God, Lori, I hope the Holy Spirit didn't impregnate you!
*************
Lori: I was in the tub and stewing over how frustrating you can be with your demands for evidence, and then respective denial of it.
*************
M*W: Lori, our 'demands' for evidence is how WE learn. See, most of us atheists have already been christians who are certainly familiar with what the Bible says. In fact, I would venture to say that all of who don't believe in the Bible as evidence were probably strong christians like I used to be. We won't deny impartial evidence, but we've already learned that the Bible does not tell the truth -- based on its many translations and retranslations into other languages. A great deal has been lost by erroneous translations through the ages.
*************
Lori: And God reminded me of something that c2o told me not too long ago, and that is "God loves an asker"...and then of all of the times that you have asked for evidence..."evidence, Lori, evidence!". You are going to get what you are asking for... you're going to get a dumptruck load of evidence. And since you are asking via this websight, it's coming via this websight... and since you're asking of me, it's coming through me. Be patient... as I have...it won't be much longer.
*************
M*W: Lori, we patiently await your revelation.
*************
Lori: After all, you can't rush perfection. I wonder what you'll do with it when you get it? Deny it as you have all of the rest that He's given you?
*************
M*W: Lori, if you provide us with scholarly research by impartial researchers and archeologists with credentials, we will be willing to check out your sources and evaluate their studies with an open-mind.
*************
Lori: There is evidence of God everywhere...all around you. Or this time...will you actually seek a relationship with Him? Will you actually use the evidence to obtain knowledge of Him? We shall see...soon.
*************
M*W: I used to believe everything in creation was created by a creator-god. Everything in creation is interconnected, and I still believe that, but I'm more likely to believe that all was was spontaneously generated via the climate (four elements: Earth, Air, Fire and Water) from which everything arose. I also believe what the ancients believed -- that the only creator-god could be the sun which changed the nature of the elements and prompted life to begin. But, let me make this perfectly clear -- I DO NOT WORSHIP THE SUN or the SON!
*************
Lori: And my reference...

In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.

Acts 2:17-18

Oh, and that's from a book called The Holy Bible...ever heard of it?
*************
M*W: Yes, we've heard of it, and we've read the Bible, and we completely understand where Acts 2:17-18 and most of the Old and New Testament comes from. This scripture you referenced was commissioned by Paul of Tarsus to be written by Luke who wrote exactly what Paul told him to. Did you really believe God wrote or inspired this? No, Lori, it was inspired by Paul, Paul and only Paul. I would have more respect for christians if they would denounce everything that Paul said, because it's not the truth! Again, we wait for your scholarly research by scientists and archeologists who are impartial to bible scripture. This is the only way we can see the truth.

 

[SnakeLord]

In fact, I would venture to say that all of who don't believe in the Bible as evidence were probably strong christians like I used to be.

I have never been, nor will I ever be, a christian.

 

[Lori_7]

Lori_7: Snakelord and M*W and to all whom this may concern,

I had a little interaction with the Holy Spirit this evening, and thought it noteworthy and relevant to this thread.
*************
M*W: My God, Lori, I hope the Holy Spirit didn't impregnate you!

Mind in the gutter MW? Why in the world would you say that?

*************
Lori: I was in the tub and stewing over how frustrating you can be with your demands for evidence, and then respective denial of it.
*************
M*W: Lori, our 'demands' for evidence is how WE learn. See, most of us atheists have already been christians who are certainly familiar with what the Bible says. In fact, I would venture to say that all of who don't believe in the Bible as evidence were probably strong christians like I used to be. We won't deny impartial evidence, but we've already learned that the Bible does not tell the truth -- based on its many translations and retranslations into other languages. A great deal has been lost by erroneous translations through the ages.
*************

You were never a christian if you based your faith upon what was written in a book. You were a christian if you were born again of the Holy Spirit of God...which is evidence that can not be misconstrued or denied...it is more than evidence, but proof...TO YOU and to know one else, as it is a personal transformation, relationship, revelation. The Holy Spirit is the translator...that is the only reason that you can't understand it...that you can't see the truth in it...you are seeking the truth from the flesh, not from the Spirit...you will never find it this way.

Lori: And God reminded me of something that c2o told me not too long ago, and that is "God loves an asker"...and then of all of the times that you have asked for evidence..."evidence, Lori, evidence!". You are going to get what you are asking for... you're going to get a dumptruck load of evidence. And since you are asking via this websight, it's coming via this websight... and since you're asking of me, it's coming through me. Be patient... as I have...it won't be much longer.
*************
M*W: Lori, we patiently await your revelation.
*************

Good. That's good to hear.

Lori: After all, you can't rush perfection. I wonder what you'll do with it when you get it? Deny it as you have all of the rest that He's given you?
*************
M*W: Lori, if you provide us with scholarly research by impartial researchers and archeologists with credentials, we will be willing to check out your sources and evaluate their studies with an open-mind.
*************

Um...I doubt there will be a need for archeologists...lol. Too bad huh? It's nice to have the "evidence" so far removed isn't it? That way, you can pretty much interpret it anyway you please, since no one was actually around to serve as a witness. Well, in this case, there will be a mass of real live modern day witnesses and a ton of documentation I am sure. Like I said, this guy is famous. His story has already been told on seven albums, and a couple of other media sources. Millions await the answer, but no one knows exactly what the question is. It's funny, you're denial has already begun. And you preach "impartial"...how ironic.

Lori: There is evidence of God everywhere...all around you. Or this time...will you actually seek a relationship with Him? Will you actually use the evidence to obtain knowledge of Him? We shall see...soon.
*************
M*W: I used to believe everything in creation was created by a creator-god. Everything in creation is interconnected, and I still believe that, but I'm more likely to believe that all was was spontaneously generated via the climate (four elements: Earth, Air, Fire and Water) from which everything arose. I also believe what the ancients believed -- that the only creator-god could be the sun which changed the nature of the elements and prompted life to begin. But, let me make this perfectly clear -- I DO NOT WORSHIP THE SUN or the SON!
*************

Would you use the 4 elements to explain love?

Lori: And my reference...

In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.

Acts 2:17-18

Oh, and that's from a book called The Holy Bible...ever heard of it?
*************
M*W: Yes, we've heard of it, and we've read the Bible, and we completely understand where Acts 2:17-18 and most of the Old and New Testament comes from. This scripture you referenced was commissioned by Paul of Tarsus to be written by Luke who wrote exactly what Paul told him to. Did you really believe God wrote or inspired this? No, Lori, it was inspired by Paul, Paul and only Paul. I would have more respect for christians if they would denounce everything that Paul said, because it's not the truth! Again, we wait for your scholarly research by scientists and archeologists who are impartial to bible scripture. This is the only way we can see the truth.

Just like God wrote poetry through me, He wrote scripture through Luke. I've experienced this phenomenon first hand and learned of how it can be accomplished...have been given knowledge of it...through the Holy Spirit. That's how it works...every single time. Honestly, your insanely biased theory is hilarious, and gives Paul waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much credit. For Paul to have been able to accomplish what you are saying that He did, He himself would have had to have been God, don't you see? Look at what he has inspired in this world throughout history! It's laughable and illogical and biased as all hell. You don't know what Paul experienced on the road to Damascus, and yet you assume that it was a delusion. Why? Because you want to, and only for that reason, that's why. You don't know what transpired between Paul and Luke, and yet you assume that you do. You weren't there when Luke wrote the Book of Acts and yet you assume that He wrote it and not the Holy Spirit through him. That very premise right there, that the Bible was written by a man, and through his imagination and/or intellect is ridiculous at best. For it is EVIDENT, when compared to any other literary work of man, that man does not have such imagination and/or intellect...or power. I would say "nice try", but it doesn't even warrant...it's pathetic.

 

[audible]

Would you use the 4 elements to explain love?

would you prefer we ask you evil god, if this sounds like a broken record, hardluck and all this is from the book you mentioned.
there are over 650 evil deeds(murder, rape, baby killing etc) done by your god of love,
but only up to 200 good deeds, and the devil/satan/demons are mentioned about 155 times and none saying that satan killed anyone.
this is your god of love, oh and jesus also said some of those 650, so he's just as bad.

 

[Lori_7]

would you prefer we ask you evil god, if this sounds like a broken record, hardluck and all this is from the book you mentioned.
there are over 650 evil deeds(murder, rape, baby killing etc) done by your god of love,
but only up to 200 good deeds, and the devil/satan/demons are mentioned about 155 times and none saying that satan killed anyone.
this is your god of love, oh and jesus also said some of those 650, so he's just as bad.

Yea, the consequence of sin is death...that is the way God designed it...in love. He will have an eternal kingdom...one without sin then of course. Can you see the difference? Which will you choose...life or death? It's the whole point of the Bible...the whole point of your existance. Too bad you and many seek to miss the point. And that is your choice.

 

[Lori_7]

Audible,

I can count way over 200 good deeds that He has done in my life alone. And by the way, that's quite an endeavor for you to have taken on all of that counting. How do you assume that you are in a position to judge God?

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Lori_7: Evidence, evidence!!! You guys are like broken records! And what evidence may I ask do either of YOU offer up for anything you believe?????? Where is YOUR evidence??? A Christian can refer to the Bible just as you can refer to any book or website. A Christian can refer to personal experience regarding a spiritual interaction or phenomenon just as anyone else can, including an abductee, a telepathic, a lucid dreamer, or the like. A Christian can refer to the same events and things of this world and offer up an interpretation of them, or an understanding of them according to their own perception, just like you can. You want to act as if YOU are unbiased??? HA!!! Everyone is biased. Everyone has their own limited perceptions and their own paradigms. The only being who's opinions and offerrings are unbiased is God Himself. As a matter of fact it is your own bias which is causing you to post this ridiculous request regarding c2o in the first place.
*************
M*W: We await your evidence.
*************
Lori: If you will actually read the forum rules that you posted *handing you some eyeglasses and a hooked on phonics textbook*, they were created to prevent flaming behaviour. Now look at c2o's behaviour. Nope, no flaming there. I would have to say that c2o is probably the most mild-mannered, humble, and meek poster out here. Maybe you should petition to have me banned, or yourself banned, or snake banned or probably anyone else before c2o.
*************
M*W: Lori, it's the preaching that offends us.
*************
Lori: You say that c2o does not answer your questions, and that is a lie. He answers your questions honestly, respectfully, and in accordance with what he has been taught through life experience, the Holy Spirit, and the Bible. He does not claim to be right all of the time. He values the opinions of others, and says so often. And he in no way shape or form belittles anyone, says he's better than anyone else, or tries to shove his beliefs down anyone's throat.
*************
M*W: c20 does not answer our questions, period. c20 claims he's right and everybody else is wrong. c20 does not value our opinions. c20 belittles everyone. c20 preaches incessantly.
*************
Lori: What's the matter MW? Been thinking about Jesus lately? Is it bugging you? I can't imagine why you feel so threatened by c2o, as he has never voiced a threat of any kind or anything even close to it. So what exactly is making you feel so threatened?
*************
M*W: Lori, I'm always thinking about Jesus, not in a Christian way, but in an historical way. c20 nor anyone else on sciforums threatens me. If they don't like what I write, they let me know it -- just like you did in this post.

 

[anonymous2]

Obviously if the God of the Bible is "Who He Said He Was", then we're in no position to "judge God". But if he doesn't exist, or is not really the "True God", then we could do such a thing, in my opinion. But the problem, as I see it, is that the God of the Bible (and I'm not saying just the God of the Bible, I'm guessing many ancient deities supposedly did things which I might find personally offensive) does things which do not seem very "moral" in my opinion, and in the opinion of some others. So, if the God of the Bible really is "Who He Said He Is", and if my mind is not able to look at this God as being "good", whose fault is that? Is it mine because that's how my mind works? Do I need to get a labotomy to make my mind think of the God of the Bible as "good"? Personally, as I said before, if the Bible is true, I find Satan a more admirable character ultimately. Satan did not create hell, nor does he put people in it. You may say he influences people to go there, but God's the one who created it and will put people in the "lake of fire", at least according to Revelation. Not that I am completely averse to the idea of punishment, but eternal punishment? As I asked before concerning Ananias and Sapphira, "How can I love such a being?"

So whose fault is it ultimately? That my mind is apparently incapable of seeing the God of the Bible as a good being? Or is it the fault of the being who supposedly created my mind?

If I thought the God of the Bible was good, then loving him wouldn't be such the problem. Jesus may have said love your enemies, but do most people actually love people they find ultimately despicable?

And before anyone quotes the Bible on this, I know "Paul" said the minds of unbelievers were blinded by Satan. Just because it's written, that does not necessarily make it so. The Bible tries to argue against those with a different viewpoint by basically demonizing them. One can justify basically anything with such a rationale, and "God's thoughts are higher than our thoughts". If I wrote a book right now, saying everyone should submit to me as God's sole and true representive on earth, and to give me all your possessions, and if you don't, you're blinded by the "god of this world", all that might mean is that I've used a psychological tool to try to convince you of something you personally think is wrong. And that is how I see the Bible. Having psychological tools to try to convince me of what I personally think is wrong.

 

[c20H25N3o]

The thing is from where i see it, I am a tiny speck of dust in something much bigger than I am. I mean tiny too. Picture the Universe if you can. How wide, how deep, how tall? I can picture every man woman and child on the earth going about their business. I can step beyond that and think that all of us will be dead in less than 100yrs. Thats everyone alive today gone. All the hopes, all the dreams, all the laughs and all the loves. Gone.
I do not accept it. You can shout science all you like but your are specks of dust in something much bigger than you. We should be permanently humbled by the sheer size of the Universe. Stand their in awe kind of thing. We are not God or some superbeing. We are fleshy blobs, carbon based, sentient beings just going about our business till we die.
I tell you there is way more too it than meets the eye. We are important both now and later. A living being has a right to live. But since we die we do not know who to ask to spare us from death eternal, we just seem to accept it. Not in my book. I am a living being and I demand a right to live forever. I will not accept the injustice that would be death. Now for this I am called an idiot. The Universe is just to big for me to believe that the humble scientist is gonna crack the code and suddenly I'll be immortal. It just aint gonna happen. But... I heard a story. Bout this guy who people testified was raised from the dead. Then I realised the price He paid. Then I came to know Him and then I truly realised the price he paid. Then I realised that there was hope. Hope in life eternal. And only because it was written in the Bible. It is my faith. Now let's suppose I'm wrong. What of it really? Is it worth arguing over? Of course not.

peace

c20