How does one address a Pharisee?

[anonymous2]

Now let's suppose I'm wrong. What of it really? Is it worth arguing over? Of course not.

peace

c20

Christianity's not the only religion in the world, C20. If you're wrong, that doesn't necessarily put you in a good position to Islamic theology. Or other theologies. So it's not Christianity vs non-Christianity. It's Christianity vs many other religions. So we are all taking chances. I fail to see why a truly loving God would require us to "take a chance" in a certain direction.

 

[§outh§tar]

A living being has a right to live.

Don't be silly. No living being has earned the right to live.

Edit: Or in this context, preach, preach, preach without ceasing.

 

[Lori_7]

Obviously if the God of the Bible is "Who He Said He Was", then we're in no position to "judge God". But if he doesn't exist, or is not really the "True God", then we could do such a thing, in my opinion. But the problem, as I see it, is that the God of the Bible (and I'm not saying just the God of the Bible, I'm guessing many ancient deities supposedly did things which I might find personally offensive) does things which do not seem very "moral" in my opinion, and in the opinion of some others. So, if the God of the Bible really is "Who He Said He Is", and if my mind is not able to look at this God as being "good", whose fault is that? Is it mine because that's how my mind works? Do I need to get a labotomy to make my mind think of the God of the Bible as "good"? Personally, as I said before, if the Bible is true, I find Satan a more admirable character ultimately. Satan did not create hell, nor does he put people in it. You may say he influences people to go there, but God's the one who created it and will put people in the "lake of fire", at least according to Revelation. Not that I am completely averse to the idea of punishment, but eternal punishment? As I asked before concerning Ananias and Sapphira, "How can I love such a being?"

So whose fault is it ultimately? That my mind is apparently incapable of seeing the God of the Bible as a good being? Or is it the fault of the being who supposedly created my mind?

If I thought the God of the Bible was good, then loving him wouldn't be such the problem. Jesus may have said love your enemies, but do most people actually love people they find ultimately despicable?

And before anyone quotes the Bible on this, I know "Paul" said the minds of unbelievers were blinded by Satan. Just because it's written, that does not necessarily make it so. The Bible tries to argue against those with a different viewpoint by basically demonizing them. One can justify basically anything with such a rationale, and "God's thoughts are higher than our thoughts". If I wrote a book right now, saying everyone should submit to me as God's sole and true representive on earth, and to give me all your possessions, and if you don't, you're blinded by the "god of this world", all that might mean is that I've used a psychological tool to try to convince you of something you personally think is wrong. And that is how I see the Bible. Having psychological tools to try to convince me of what I personally think is wrong.

Dude...if you find Him so despicable then you shouldn't mind not spending an eternity living with Him and under His law. So what's the big deal? What's the problem? You've got your free will don't you? Use it.

And just so you know, we are not talking about some trivial intellectual debate here ok? It is so much more than that. Sin is not an act, but a state of being. Sin is a genetic defect that is encoded into your flesh. It's not about being wrong or right. Man, you said it all right there didn't you. That's the only reason someone doesn't want to know God...they don't want to ever hear that they're wrong about anything. No one wants to know that they are sinners....that they are not currently what they were meant to be ultimately. Pride...it's a sin you know. Sin is not about being right about this and wrong about that...it's systemic...it's an inherent flaw that f's up everything, and puts a veil between us and God and His truth. Why? Because it makes us want things that are bad for us. Our flesh opposes our spirit. And in the end, you have a choice...you can't have both...will it be your flesh or your spirit. You can't intellectualize God!!!! Are ya nuts??? I mean gee, how humble is that??? lol. "Yea, I've got Him all figured out." Right! And from a Book no less. This isn't about theology. The only way that you are going to understand God is to get to know Him yourself as I do, and as many do. You may have a personal relationship with Him through Jesus Christ His Son. Listen to me...it is a spiritual relationship...a telepathic one if you will....a communication between you and Him personally. The only condition of said relationship is that you sincerely have to want it. And you know, it's not like it's a death sentence...lol...if you don't like Him, you can always tell him to leave you alone. He never comes uninvited....He never intrudes into your life....He never does anything to you or with you unless He is sincerely asked to.

Love,

Lori

 

[anonymous2]

Dude...if you find Him so despicable then you shouldn't mind not spending an eternity living with Him and under His law. So what's the big deal? What's the problem? You've got your free will don't you? Use it.

Who said I wasn't using it? I was simply stating my opinion.

And just so you know, we are not talking about some trivial intellectual debate here ok? It is so much more than that. Sin is not an act, but a state of being. Sin is a genetic defect that is encoded into your flesh. It's not about being wrong or right. Man, you said it all right there didn't you. That's the only reason someone doesn't want to know God...they don't want to ever hear that they're wrong about anything. No one wants to know that they are sinners....that they are not currently what they were meant to be ultimately. Pride...it's a sin you know. Sin is not about being right about this and wrong about that...it's systemic...it's an inherent flaw that f's up everything, and puts a veil between us and God and His truth. Why? Because it makes us want things that are bad for us. Our flesh opposes our spirit. And in the end, you have a choice...you can't have both...will it be your flesh or your spirit. You can't intellectualize God!!!! Are ya nuts??? I mean gee, how humble is that??? lol. "Yea, I've got Him all figured out." Right! And from a Book no less. This isn't about theology. The only way that you are going to understand God is to get to know Him yourself as I do, and as many do. You may have a personal relationship with Him through Jesus Christ His Son. Listen to me...it is a spiritual relationship...a telepathic one if you will....a communication between you and Him personally. The only condition of said relationship is that you sincerely have to want it. And you know, it's not like it's a death sentence...lol...if you don't like Him, you can always tell him to leave you alone. He never comes uninvited....He never intrudes into your life....He never does anything to you or with you unless He is sincerely asked to.

Love,

Lori

If you have read my posts, I don't especially have a problem with saying I'm a sinner. I just simply said that I can't really find it in myself to love the "God of the Bible". Who said I had God all figured out? I simply said my opinion of the "God of the Bible". I have a right to express that, don't I? And so I did. And not intending it in an offensive way either.

 

[Lori_7]

Christianity's not the only religion in the world, C20. If you're wrong, that doesn't necessarily put you in a good position to Islamic theology. Or other theologies. So it's not Christianity vs non-Christianity. It's Christianity vs many other religions. So we are all taking chances. I fail to see why a truly loving God would require us to "take a chance" in a certain direction.

No one requires you to take a chance in a certain direction?!?! Gee, what are you afraid is going to happen? You might be wrong??? Oh, the horror! How about taking a chance in the direction of God Himself? How about seeking the truth in everything? Wherever you find it. Look in all directions, and you will see that you will only stop when you find KNOWLEDGE of God. Not when you find a dogma that fits in comfortably with your lifestyle or your personality...but when you actually find the truth. Man, no one...especially not God...is asking you to take anyone's word for it...not even His Word. He wants to know you personally...He wants you to know FOR SURE...by knowing Him. He wants to give you PROOF that you can not deny...not out of a book, but out of your life...out of your spirit. It is law that all you have to do to know God is want to know God...sincerely in your heart....and He will take it from there. The truth is that most people don't want to know God. It's too consequential, and it may just ruin their plans for the weekend. Most people think it will "hurt"...as in "ouch". It's the aversion that is encoded into our flesh...and it is a lie. For God is love, and love does not hurt, but heals. God is not nearly the prude that hypocrit church people make Him out to be. You would love Him...trust me...I know Him.

I felt like that once...afraid to know...I didn't want to know. I told myself that I did, and I intellectually debated it all the time....just because I couldn't justify not doing so...being such an important question and all. But I didn't really want to know...at the time, I thought it would be a real buzz-kill. I researched all of the major world religions...learned a few things...but truly KNEW nothing for sure. But then one day, I changed my mind about wanting to know...and that day...everything changed.

I love Him so much I can't even explain. To hand my life over to Him I consider a priviledge that I am not worthy of. He is everything to me, and I would not want to imagine living this life without Him. He is my best friend, my Father, my King, my Counselor...my Saviour, my Redeemer, my Restorer...my comfort, my peace, my joy, my love. If it were not for Him, I would not want to be alive, nor would I be. I would not want to live without Him. I tell you that He is love...He is love.

 

[anonymous2]

No one requires you to take a chance in a certain direction?!?! Gee, what are you afraid is going to happen? You might be wrong??? Oh, the horror! How about taking a chance in the direction of God Himself? How about seeking the truth in everything?

You are emotional about your beliefs apparently. Which is fine. My problem is, I don't particularly like the deities I've encountered in the religions I've studied. Who said I didn't seek truth? Why are you apparently assuming that I don't seek truth? Odd to me.

I guess I joined this forum because I thought it'd be an intelligent discussion of religion. This is not to say that I'm some intellectual. I'm not claiming I am.

 

[Lori_7]

Who said I wasn't using it? I was simply stating my opinion.



If you have read my posts, I don't especially have a problem with saying I'm a sinner. I just simply said that I can't really find it in myself to love the "God of the Bible". Who said I had God all figured out? I simply said my opinion of the "God of the Bible". I have a right to express that, don't I? And so I did. And not intending it in an offensive way either.

No offense taken at all. Let me ask you then...if the God of the Bible were the only God...and if it were that you were mistaken about how you see Him...understand Him from reading the Book? Would you sincerely want to know? If the answer is yes, then pray and tell Him. Just ask, "God, if Jesus was your Son, and the Bible is your Word, and I've got you all wrong, then let me know." Tell Him, "If I can know you, then I want to know you." He'll do it to ya...just like He did it to me...I'm not special...we're all special to Him.

Love,

Lori

 

[Lori_7]

You are emotional about your beliefs apparently. Which is fine. My problem is, I don't particularly like the deities I've encountered in the religions I've studied. Who said I didn't seek truth? Why are you apparently assuming that I don't seek truth? Odd to me.

I guess I joined this forum because I thought it'd be an intelligent discussion of religion. This is not to say that I'm some intellectual. I'm not claiming I am.

I'm not assuming anything about you...I'm asking. I was telling you that once I did not want to know the truth myself...as I know that many others do not. I'm very happy to hear that you sincerely seek the truth...because I know that according to His Law, you will find it! Hooray! Be patient. God's timing is never in accordance with our expectations. He is perfect, and will find the perfect way to show Himself to you...so that you will know for sure...and find the answers that you seek. If it is true that you sincerely seek, you will find. I know that in this life, you get exactly what you ask for. God gives you exactly what you ask for because He loves you enough to give you free will.

Love,

Lori

 

[anonymous2]

No offense taken at all. Let me ask you then...if the God of the Bible were the only God...and if it were that you were mistaken about how you see Him...understand Him from reading the Book? Would you sincerely want to know? If the answer is yes, then pray and tell Him. Just ask, "God, if Jesus was your Son, and the Bible is your Word, and I've got you all wrong, then let me know." Tell Him, "If I can know you, then I want to know you." He'll do it to ya...just like He did it to me...I'm not special...we're all special to Him.

Love,

Lori

I guess what my problem is .. is that, at one time, I did "believe". But that's been so destroyed in me that I don't even have a mustard seed of faith. To be honest, I did pray briefly days ago.

 

[Lori_7]

Oh thank God! Thank God! I am so happy to hear that! You have a mustard seed...you have a little itty bitty one, I know, and that's all it takes. Lord, I had a mustard seed, and God blew my ass right out of the water with it! You just wait!

Let me ask...did you "believe", or did you "know"? Do you understand what I'm asking?

 

[anonymous2]

Oh thank God! Thank God! I am so happy to hear that! You have a mustard seed...you have a little itty bitty one, I know, and that's all it takes. Lord, I had a mustard seed, and God blew my ass right out of the water with it! You just wait!

Let me ask...did you "believe", or did you "know"? Do you understand what I'm asking?

I guess you're asking if it was just an intellectual assent to doctrines? I wouldn't classify it as that, unless you wish to consider crying while reading the story of Jesus' crucifixion/death/resurrection to someone I knew at the time to be mere "intellectual assent". But I was in my teens then.

 

[Lori_7]

I don't know...I've cried while watching a Folger's coffee commercial...lol. What I'm asking is did you know Him? Cause when you know Him, you know it. Even when He moves in your life, to teach you something or to answer a prayer....man, you know it. You know when it is beyond "coincedence". Now I know that NOTHING is coicedence. Now I call that "the c word". lol.

 

[anonymous2]

I don't know...I've cried while watching a Folger's coffee commercial...lol. What I'm asking is did you know Him? Cause when you know Him, you know it. Even when He moves in your life, to teach you something or to answer a prayer....man, you know it. You know when it is beyond "coincedence". Now I know that NOTHING is coicedence. Now I call that "the c word". lol.

I'm not going to get into a discussion if I was "truly" a "believer" or not. Not that you will necessarily judge me on that, but I've already seen you possibly imply Medicine Woman wasn't a true believer. You don't know her. Not that I do either, but.

 

[Lori_7]

Well, you know if you know. And if you want to know...truly...then ask...and you will. It's that simple. Ask and you will receive...seek and you will find...knock and the door will be opened. I wish you the best in your search, I really do. I hope that you find what you are looking for...and I hope that you are looking for love, cause that's exactly what He is.

Love,

Lori