How did matter come into existence?

[MacM]

and2000X,

Until you have actually observed 'nothing' (which you can't), I wouldn't postulate it. Anyone who claims that everything came from nothing ought to get their head checked.

ANS: I'll be sure to check in and have that done.

Some here don't like it but it actually seems rather simple.

Where "0" represents "Nothingness"


0---------->(+n)+(-n). that is mathematically you can bifurcate "0" into two opposites entities of "Somethingness" and not violate any conservation principles.

You also do that without requiring a God. It hasn't been here for eternity or infinite time, that still requires a point of creation some infinite amount of time ago. Those are no answers.

The above seems a logical answer. It also sounds a great deal simular to a fluctuation.

Persol's "Flux" would not be "Nothing". The absence of time and space is "Nothing".

Knowing to believe only half of
what you hear is a sign of
intelligence. Knowing which
half to believe will make you a
genius.

 

[firingseeds]

squirrel

the gospel teaches us, that if they ain't told, how can they hear, then how can they be saved?


what i stated was reality- my reality, ( plus or minus 5% ).
quantum theory states that u can only ever know 50%, so what's so perfect about your self-doctrine, that which u use to edify yourself? what do u know? what makes u so superior to me? intelligence?
what do u know about the workings of the universe? u can't even admit it's a mystery. u are in denial. yes, it's true! u can escape to cinderella land- if that is what u want? yes, it's true! u can hide under the rug. stop flagellating yourself... and live
it's beneath me to reply to your version of non- accountability. sheeesh!

 

[MacM]

Hmmmm

Posted by:Jade Squirrel

"The basic idea is that, once you pump enough energy into the 'vacuum', you can knock the Higgs boson out of the condensate."


Where is Persol we we need him?

Knowing to believe only half of
what you hear is a sign of
intelligence. Knowing which
half to believe will make you a
genius.

 

[Jade Squirrel]

Re: squirrel

Originally posted by firingseeds
the gospel teaches us, that if they ain't told, how can they hear, then how can they be saved?

Well, touché, I guess.

quantum theory states that u can only ever know 50%

Perhaps you are referring to wave-particle duality, which is the characteristic of energy and matter simultaneously exhibiting the properties of waves and particles. Once observed, however, the wave function collapses. This deals with the microscopic world and has no direct bearing on the probability of us knowing something to be true.

so what's so perfect about your self-doctrine, that which u use to edify yourself? what do u know? what makes u so superior to me? intelligence?

Discernment, perhaps.

what do u know about the workings of the universe? u can't even admit it's a mystery. u are in denial. yes, it's true! u can escape to cinderella land- if that is what u want? yes, it's true! u can hide under the rug. stop flagellating yourself... and live

Sure it's a mystery. I'm not denying that. But you think you have it solved: goddidit. I'm surprised to hear one who ascribes to the fairy tales of the Bible assert that I am in "Cinderella Land" for not believing said fairy tales. I'm not hiding. I am open to whatever scientific and peer-reviewed evidence is presented to me. I also don't consider not believing in God to be a form of self-punishment. Quite the opposite, in fact. I am quite happy with my life without the psychological crutch of a magical sky pixie.

it's beneath me to reply to your version of non- accountability. sheeesh!

I think it's a valid concern. Does a Christian really need to be accountable for his or her own actions with the "knowledge" that Jesus will provide his unconditional forgiveness provided the Christian accepts him as his or her personal lord and savior?

 

[Jade Squirrel]

Re: Hmmmm

Originally posted by MacM
"The basic idea is that, once you pump enough energy into the 'vacuum', you can knock the Higgs boson out of the condensate."


Where is Persol we we need him?

Is Persol an expert on quantum "condensation" or is this an inside joke that has gone way over my head.

 

[Raithere]

Yes, firingseeds?

Originally posted by firingseeds
it seems u have a way to go, yet, to discover that god may be a bit more complex than what u can imagine.

Don't worry about me, I'm way past that. My comment about simplicity was not about what I believe but what I observe others professing to believe.

did u know that truth is strength?

In what context?

can u realize that god made u so? can u realize that u have no real choices in life- none whatsoever?

Then I should not be held responsible for anything I do. Anyone who punishes a machine for doing what they built it to do is either an idiot or a lunatic.

put i doll in a bath-tub, bring it to life. it will know nothing but the input that it receives. no passion, no love, no hate etc. give it love, it will never understand love until an opposite has been introduced

False dichotomy. A thing is known by its properties not by its opposite. Having never tasted bitter one can still know sweet.

theists, creationists, what matter- it's who u know, not what u know

Only if the who you are referring to is one's self. That is strength.

~Raithere

 

[firingseeds]

squirrel

ahh, no, i was talking about theory of quantum, itself.
touche to u, too- about discernment. ( ouch! )
if u had any real discernment ,u would'nt discount what i have said.
i was saying- i repeat- i was saying- u can hide under a rug- or 'cinderella land'- if that is your wish; but it was an offering, not a subjective observation of your comprehension. ( always room for improvement. )
u are accountable to god, whether u know it, or not; whether u accept it, or not. bible: for the whole duty of man is to serve god, ( and also meaning not yourself ).
the modern roman empire we live in, just as jesus did, 2000 years ago, republic upon republic, babylon upon babylon, roman laws, babylonian depravity. depth of understanding comes from the bible, the word of god. this is for your benefit- i gain nothing.
reminds me of a friend. she is rich, i am poor. she always needs building, and, of course, i give as she needs. u would think it would be the other way round

 

[firingseeds]

raithere

one can know sweet but without an opposite one would also be brainless. same with adam and eve- they didn't 'evolve' until an 'opposite' was introduced.
anyone who punishes a machine...ahh, but, raitheres, life is for the living.
truth is a defence, raitheres. without a defence one be like a leaf blowing in the wind. here today, gone tomorrow.
self is worthless without a blessing, for who cares what u may believe, or what others may believe? 'tis only love why one cares and respects. y'see, i actually learn't about love and respect from the gospel- it wasn't originally a learn't behaviour in me from society.

 

[Jade Squirrel]

Re: Yes, firingseeds?

Originally posted by firingseeds
can u realize that god made u so? can u realize that u have no real choices in life- none whatsoever?

Originally posted by Raithere
Then I should not be held responsible for anything I do.

firingseeds, this is also what I was referring to regarding lack of accountability.

Originally posted by firingseeds
ahh, no, i was talking about theory of quantum, itself.

Strictly speaking, quantum theory is "based on the concept of the subdivision of radiant energy into finite quanta and applied to numerous processes involving transference or transformation of energy in an atomic or molecular scale". What does this have to do with the probability of knowing something to be true in the macroscopic world?

if u had any real discernment ,u would'nt discount what i have said.

On the contrary. It is through the application of discernment that I have discounted your claims.

u are accountable to god, whether u know it, or not; whether u accept it, or not. bible: for the whole duty of man is to serve god, ( and also meaning not yourself ).

...

depth of understanding comes from the bible, the word of god. this is for your benefit- i gain nothing.

You are entitled to hold that belief, as I am entitled to reject it as mere superstition. Cheers.

 

[Raithere]

Re: raithere

Originally posted by firingseeds
one can know sweet but without an opposite one would also be brainless.

Would you care to elaborate upon this a bit more. I have no idea what you are trying to say.

same with adam and eve- they didn't 'evolve' until an 'opposite' was introduced.

What or who is the opposite of Adam and Eve?

anyone who punishes a machine...ahh, but, raitheres, life is for the living.

Well, if we have no choice then I would say that life is more like a Ferris wheel for the soul. It may be kind of fun but it's not very interesting and not at all interactive.

truth is a defence, raitheres. without a defence one be like a leaf blowing in the wind. here today, gone tomorrow.

Actually, I find certainty to be more of a problem than a benefit. Absolute truths are quite hard to come by and most assertions of truth are relative or passing. Attempting to cling to them as if they are absolute causes all kinds of problems.

self is worthless without a blessing, for who cares what u may believe, or what others may believe? 'tis only love why one cares and respects. y'see, i actually learn't about love and respect from the gospel- it wasn't originally a learn't behaviour in me from society.

I agree that love is a good thing, I'm just not sure how it fits in with the rest of what you are saying.

~Raithere

 

[firingseeds]

raithere,
if u only ever see red, that is all u will ever know. this simple premise of one basic element, referring to bi- polarization, relates to the building blocks of life and knowledge, just as cars have developed, 10 speeds to mountain bikes, etc. ( if i did not err, what would i learn? )
in the garden, bi-polarization ( an opposite ), was introduced over purity- purity meaning innoccence. as i said, raitheres, it's the living that benefit from the truth- not the dead, as god is an absolute truth.
i don't care if one doesn't believe, and i'm not trying to tear down walls; but just introducing the equipment to topple the wall one'self. love is about building, not destroying. love of truth and knowledge is the only qualitative of debate. my own basic reasoning skills are biblically developed.

 

[firingseeds]

squirrel

about accountibility, god saith, who is the clay to say of the potter, what hast thou made me for? squander of resources- even intellectual one's- is sin. vanity is worthless- where are u heading with your own prognosis in regards to disregarding god- who made u? if u know life is a mystery, how can common-sense disregard god? that is very limited thinking. u forget i know your ways, but u know not my ways. common-sense shows u the limitations of your thinking. if life was a mystery, why would u discount god?
quantum, ultimately deals with chaos, in regards to order.
about your sense of discernment- are u being true to yourself?
by qualifying my arguement as belief, u arrogantly disqualify any intellect. u may find flaws in my arguement, but i see flaws in your thinking; which also should show u your limitations. u need to develop a stronger case to life, and the bible will give u further development- if u so wished.

 

[Raithere]

Originally posted by firingseeds
if u only ever see red, that is all u will ever know.

Ah, but there is a difference between knowing only one thing and knowing a thing by its opposite. As far as one thing goes, I agree. We will, for instance, never know what non-existence or partial existence is like for there is only existence for the self. Still this does not logically necessitate opposition only variance. One might, for instance, know only varying levels of sweetness. Or light, for which darkness not antithetical but only the absence of.

in the garden, bi-polarization ( an opposite ), was introduced over purity- purity meaning innoccence. as i said, raitheres, it's the living that benefit from the truth- not the dead, as god is an absolute truth.

And this I do agree with (metaphorically) but it puts the question to which, in God's mind, is the greater good; to know or to obey? God's actions indicate that knowledge is the greater good.

i don't care if one doesn't believe, and i'm not trying to tear down walls; but just introducing the equipment to topple the wall one'self. love is about building, not destroying. love of truth and knowledge is the only qualitative of debate. my own basic reasoning skills are biblically developed.

But the walls will come down. Better that they come down brick by brick than all at once. Love, truth, knowledge, all of these I am in agreement with. But I would assert to you what I postulated to Flores elsewhere; the literal interpretation is not important, the truth lies in the depths of the work.

"Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand."

~Raithere

 

[firingseeds]

raithere

ah! i agree. about the first thing, tho, may i just add, that if u never experience pain, then u will never know, feel, or understand, what pain is. i think a bit of pain will certainly make one more aware. rather than walking into a punch, one may then be inclined to duck.
cheers

 

[Raithere]

To be human

Originally posted by firingseeds
ah! i agree. about the first thing, tho, may i just add, that if u never experience pain, then u will never know, feel, or understand, what pain is.

It's all good; the happiness, the suffering, all that we perceive and feel.
This is what it means to be human; this is what it means to exist.
The alternative is oblivion.

~Raithere

 

[ele]

"You can say that it has always been there, but if you really, really think about it, matter had to have come from somewhere, at least that's what makes sense to me. "

I am unable to understand this perspective which many people seem toi feel instinctively. I honestly see no reason to assume that matter or at least energy hasnt always existed. as far as we know it only transforms, and isnt created and destroyed.

 

[firingseeds]

yes, ele, matter comes from energy. god spoke, and energy became matter. simple, so simple.

 

[Jade Squirrel]

Re: squirrel

Originally posted by firingseeds
god is an absolute truth.

So you say...

where are u heading with your own prognosis in regards to disregarding god- who made u?

I am heading wherever life takes me. And I don't believe that there is a God to have made me, so I cannot answer your question to your satisfaction.

if u know life is a mystery, how can common-sense disregard god? that is very limited thinking.

Because there is no evidence on which to base belief in such an entity. Just because I accept that life is a mystery doesn't mean that I will accept anything proposed about its existence without evidence. This is not limiting myself, but filtering out all the gobbledygook.

u forget i know your ways, but u know not my ways.

What would you presume to know of my ways?

quantum, ultimately deals with chaos, in regards to order.

You still have not shown how the behavior of quanta can affect the probability that something is true in the macroscopic world.

about your sense of discernment- are u being true to yourself?

Yes.

by qualifying my arguement as belief, u arrogantly disqualify any intellect.

That doesn't even make sense.

u may find flaws in my arguement, but i see flaws in your thinking; which also should show u your limitations.

If you see flaws in my thinking, then please share them with me.

u need to develop a stronger case to life, and the bible will give u further development- if u so wished.

What do you mean by "stronger case to life"? I take it you believe that I could only develop a "stronger case to life" by accepting as truth the silly notions of your antiquated book of fairy tales. No thanks!

 

[Jade Squirrel]

Originally posted by firingseeds
god spoke, and energy became matter. simple, so simple.

I would agree with the use of the term "simple", although not in the same context in which you are using it.

 

[firingseeds]

squirrel

the seeds planted today are the trees of tomorrow.