How did matter come into existence?

JDawg

i have meditated for nearly 30 years on god and his word. i have not tried to make a living from it ( i am poor- and to the world i am useless. i can't even get a job at present- not even a menial one ), nor have i tried to preach it. i have just meditated it. i lived by the old testament for 20- odd years, refusing to read the new. when i did, i accepted jesus as my lord and saviour. i then looked at christianity, and the church. i can't read any church theology- find it boring- and do not even read western philosophy ( i learn't enough about the romans and the greeks when i was a kid ), which i find weak...we are living it, mostly. i don't trust most churches, but i still have an open mind. after 20 years, and with a strong foundation, i then studied buddhism teaching, zen, hinduism, daoism. can i help it if i can understand these faiths. maybe, just maybe, i put in the WORK! i have not chased money, for what can money buy but life.
i didn't grow up with a visible bible in the house, and i don't recall church, and my parents never mentioned jesus, yet i knew about god and jesus. it was only when i was 12 that i went to sunday school, and hated it. my question was the usual: who made god? ( adults ARE still asking that question ). i learn't to meditate naturally, without structured instruction, and found out years later, that was what i did.
from the bible, i have all the lord's weapons- both from the old and new- and i know how to use them, but u don't swat a fly with a shovel.
i left school when i was 12, simply becoz' i was a rebel. i am only now learning english composition.
hopefully, this will give u an open mind. u are talking to me, not your concepts. people live in mindset, hence they can't see the sun. they use human definement in all their thinking, not realizing we are created- even from the beginning 'til now..layer upon layer.
jesus truly is god.
ohh, and i grew up fighting. ohh, and i grew up in a violent household. i know about pain, suffering and violence. i know about hatred, spite, and dishonor. scholars can only theorize, they cannot live it. someone has to do the hard yards, because theory is useless, without practical application.
...i could simply use a club, but i don't.
( and...i have only wrote this coz' i thought u might want to know. )
 
Re: Producing more energy?

Originally posted by Medicine*Woman
("The spiritual realm" is what I call "energy." Yes, it exists in the physical realm, too. this "energy" encompasses everything in creation to one degree of speed or another. Matter is all the same thing. It just depends on the number of molecules and how fast they exist. Again, this is not a scientific description.)
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“Matter” is a physical substance of sorts, “spirit” is not. Spirit is the exact opposite of matter. Spirit is described as consciousness, and it is when consciousness acts/wills, matter becomes animated. When viewing a dead body, we see all its material particles before us, but without consciousness it cannot act.

(For now, let's presume that the universe was created by this already existing "energy field." It becomes stars, planets, galaxies, universes, plants, animals, humans, etc. This "energy field" is what I call the Spirit of God. It is everywhere, omnipotent, omniscient, etc. We are the bearers of the Spirit of God "energy.")
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To “know” something, there has to be consciousness, so the “energy field” of which you speak must be conscious, or there is know question of creation, omnipotence or omniscience.

(Consciousness is the "energy" we have in our physical bodies. Since there is no death to this "energy," when we become unconscious the "energy" starts to flow in and out of our bodies. Again, there is no death to this "energy." It is our physical bodies that are temporary, not the spirit. As the "energy" leaves the body, the body become unconscious. The spirt can return, however.)
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But what is consciousness, and what is spirit in relation to matter?

The spirt can return, however. Wouldn't this be called a "resurrection?"
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If the spirit returned to a dead body, and the body once again became animated, then it would be a resurrection of sorts. There is a great case of a woman (Pam Reynolds) who was intentionally made dead by ceasing all brain activity, including the shutting down of all neural acitivity, who came back to life in her body. This is not, however the same type of resurrection where Jesus rose again.

The more we love, the more energy is created. Just think where we would be as a human race if we had more love for our fellow man? In turn, we would have more love for God which dwells within us, which creates a greater manifestation for the Spirit of God on Earth.
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I doubt whether it is possible for me to agree with you anymore than I do. That is an ideal situation, one which I think could only benefit all living beings, and is worth striving for. Thanks! ;)

Love
Jan Ardena.
 
Re: Producing more energy?

Originally posted by Medicine*Woman
The more we love, the more energy is created. Just think where we would be as a human race if we had more love for our fellow man? In turn, we would have more love for God which dwells within us, which creates a greater manifestation for the Spirit of God on Earth.
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But its strange that you hate Jesus who prescribed love for everyone.?!
 
Originally posted by Cris
From observation; new energy is not produced, energy is only transferred from one type to another. It is neither created nor destroyed.
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If new energy is not produced, how is it “new energy.”
If energy is a force, then there must be an application of force separate to the energy, something like cause and effect. So what is the force?
Even though the “energy” latent in a “quantum VACUUM” has not “actually” been observed, let alone deciding whether or not there is an observable energetic principle, there is no form of energy, to my knowledge, which acts without being produced by some sort of effort. So the dynamic law which you mention does not apply to the particular subject as it only deals with the nature of energy.

The material realm can be directly touched, sensed, and otherwise observed. An alleged spiritual realm cannot.
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Pure consciousness may not be easily observable, it may be limited to only a few persons (if that), but consciousness can be observed very easily. So on the one hand we have dead matter like stones, and on the other hand we have conscious living beings all growing, producing effects, etc. So I disagree with you on that, the spiritual realm can be observed through the material realm, through developed intelligence.
The difference between us is that you believe consciousness is brain activity and I believe it is trancendental (in a pure state).

How then can such a realm be said to exist outside of human imagination? What criteria can be used to determine its existence?
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Apart from the above, there are a few criterea, read Bhagavad Gita. Gain understanding instead of just putting it down because it doesn’t suit your current life-style. :D

Love
Jan Ardena.
 
Firingseeds,

Just to reinforce Jade's observation -

i enjoy being open-minded.
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But you aren’t now since you have closed your mind to everything except Christianity, right?

Now that is fine if you can show that Christianity is the truth, but note that barely a third of the world maintain a Christian belief and only a fraction of them really understand the issues, that means that the vast majority of world either don't care, are sheep, or have found other 'truths'.

Now while I don’t maintain that a majority view necessarily holds the truth I can’t see that your minority position has any real strength.

And note that while you are attracted to the ideas of Christianity that doesn't mean they have to be divine. Loving your neighbor has value in its own right that we can all appreciate, and we don't need a god to tell us that.
 
Last edited:
Originally posted by Cris
It’s a variation on the ATOM symbol but with one open orbit to indicate that we/science do not know everything yet.

It is the symbol adopted by the American Atheists organization.
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Cris,
The atom model where electrons orbitting the nucleus is not proper representation of atom. there are no orbits but probability clouds of the electrons. perhaps AA need to update their symbol accordingly.
 
Everneo,

The atom model where electrons orbitting the nucleus is not proper representation of atom. there are no orbits but probability clouds of the electrons. perhaps AA need to update their symbol accordingly.
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It’s a symbol not a model. Call them shells, or energy levels, or perhaps even geostationary orbits if you like.

But the symbol indicates that science grows, changes, and doesn’t know everything. Whereas theism says God did it, and claims to know everything.
 
chris

hi, i'm not searching for truth, chris, if that's what u mean? but, i love knowledge and learning. do u know what i mean? the 5 senses can't disclose god to u; i believe intelligence can. so someone's limited, so what? does it really matter? the gospel is about charity, like: what comes first- truth or charity? i talk to the soul, chris, not the 5 senses...and i bumble thru new things just like the next person. i take the wealth of things, and discard the pigshit, because i have the resourses ( and defenses ) to do so.
jesus overcame the world, i, too, have followed him, and overcome- because i trusted god completely.
my favorite dream as a kid was walking and exploring the world...and no one else was present. i walk ahead of my family...
as i said to jdawg, there are no concepts with me...just me. i am open-minded, chris, coz' if i don't have an answer, then i don't have a view....and even when i have a view, i can still accept the view of others.
i'm me own boss, chris.
 
Overcoming the world

Originally posted by firingseeds
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hi, i'm not searching for truth, chris, if that's what u mean?
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(Then why are you here?)
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jesus overcame the world, i, too, have followed him, and overcome- because i trusted god completely.
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(Maybe you overcame your difficulties because you had inner-strength? Let me tell you a secret. If you're alive, then, as we speak, you are overcomming your trials in the world. You overcome these trials until you take your last breath, then your Earthly trials are over. This has nothing to do with your following Jesus, the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus or the tooth fairy. If believing in fantasies helps you in this life, then go ahead and continue believing in your fairy tales.)
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as i said to jdawg, there are no concepts with me...just me.
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(But, you lie! You adamantly credit Jesus for everything, so don't say there are no concepts with you. You're a Xian. Are you denying that now?)
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i am open-minded, chris, coz' if i don't have an answer, then i don't have a view....and even when i have a view, i can still accept the view of others. i'm me own boss, chris.
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(Why are you lying? No, you cannot accept other's views. You question everyone else who is NOT an Xian! You are biased and opinionated for Xianity. Unfortunately, I have seen you display no significant degree of intellectual thought on this website.)
 
medicine woman

your concepts about xianity are yours, mw, not mine. i'm a bit past doctrine, tradition. why am i here...enjoying myself, medicine woman. why are u here. on the terms u implied on me, then u are here seeking the truth... u get it, so u in the right place.
agreed, i am strong..u have no idea, tho, how strong. i am everything your concepts arn't.
so, u say i'm dumb. well....:rolleyes: what can i say.
jesus is my lord and saviour, medicine woman- u are adding your concepts on me. jesus is god over all, no matter what faith u are hiding under.
woman, ya'know, if u arn't bright, u won't see a thing.
 
Re: medicine woman

Originally posted by firingseeds
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your concepts about xianity are yours, mw, not mine. i'm a bit past doctrine, tradition.
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(Yes, my concepts are mine, and if you feel I have tried to enforce my beliefs upon you, you are sadly mistaken. The concept of the One Spirit of God within all creation cannot, I repeat, cannot be enforced upon anyone. It's something you would need to come to realize on your own. I have no power over anyone but myself. Perhaps you feel threatened by me?)
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why am i here...enjoying myself, medicine woman. why are u here.
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(I am here to complete the mission that was given to me. Do you know what your mission is in this lifetime?)
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on the terms u implied on me, then u are here seeking the truth... u get it, so u in the right place.
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(Yes, I am seeking the truth, and I am the bearer of truth.)
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agreed, i am strong..u have no idea, tho, how strong. i am everything your concepts arn't.
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(If you are as strong as you say, why do my concepts threaten you? Without knowing you, I have a sense that you are a strong person. I am a strong person, too, and you don't have any idea of how strong I am.)
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so, u say i'm dumb. well....:rolleyes: what can i say.
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(In my opinion, your posts reflect a simple mind. By that, I don't mean retarded or anything. I just mean 'simple.' In other words, you are probably not one of the greatest intuitives on the planet. There's nothing wrong with that. You believe what you're told and you don't look any further.)
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jesus is my lord and saviour, medicine woman- u are adding your concepts on me. jesus is god over all, no matter what faith u are hiding under.
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(My concepts have nothing to do with needing a savior. How can you say I am adding my concepts on you? According to your belief in Xianity, this would be impossible? Or, are you afraid that my concepts may make a little sense to you and you are afraid of my concepts?)
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woman, ya'know, if u arn't bright, u won't see a thing.
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(Man, ya' know, if you've been blinded by the light, you won't see a thing.)
 
medicine woman

u are still conceptual. u are trying to put all of xianity on me, but it's just me here. i found my own way, not what u believe anything is. i don't know luther, or all your catholic doctrine...that's why i'm free. nothing enters, woman, 'til it's been scanned for viruses.
all u are doing is claiming god, and denying his son...it can't help u. i'm not reaching up to u, i'm reaching down to u. u havn't figured that out...
ahh, simplicity...thank u for observing that:)
when i say, it can't help u, i mean u can't bloom in flower if u are in the shadows- nothing to do with anything else. now, don't get angry...moderation is a fruit. show me your fruit.
u are not gonna get dumber out of this, unless u really are deluded; and there, i cannot help u.
cheers
 
Originally posted by Zelicaon
You can say that it has always been there, but if you really, really think about it, matter had to have come from somewhere, at least that's what makes sense to me. I'm just curious as to your theories of how it came into existence *assuming it hasnt always been there*. Note, it may have always been there, I guess I'm just curious as to explanations of how it could have come to be if that's how it occured. Thanks!

P.S. I'm new here :D Hello everyone!
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Zelicaon, your assumption asserts a belief. Everyone has their particular subscribed belief(s). Those beliefs determine the answer to your question. Study them, pick one and live with it.

Using the Creationist viewpoint according to the Old Testament, matter coexisted with God before God created everything from the pre-existing soup of matter. The Old Testament theory of everything, solids formed from fluids under the guidance of God.

From the astronomical viewpoint, the soup of matter and energy can be altered but not destroyed. In addition to that, various processes change products from one element to another or from a group of elements to a molecule. Other processes mix mixtures to make new matter. Further matter manufacture can occur under the right conditions by alpha and beta decay because alpha decay emits 2 protons and 2 neutrons while beta decay emits electrons. Nuclear fission also generates new matter from existing matter. Hmmm.

You might want to read up on De Broglie waves to comprehend quantum nature of matter. The quantum nature of matter might suggest how interesting physics things happen.

Hmm, now you know Creationism and reality. Your next inquiry might lead to subatomic particles, the components of matter. That question is not answered by the Holy Bible. To find such answers look into particle physics. Those expensive atom smashers let us see the effects of smashing a neutron into an atomic nucleus to emit a gamma ray. Other tests show some relations between elementary particles and high energy electromagnetic waves. Such relations suggest elementary particles are standing electromagnetic waves. Therefore, under the right conditions a subatomic particle can be converted to an electromagnetic wave, travel at light speed to a new location, and then be refabricated. The trick with moving goods and people the same way is to know how to mix the light to get the original object instead of a soup of subatomic particles. Once we know the trick, we begin to cease to use planes, barges and trains, subways, and so on. Also, once the assembly trick is known, mass may be converted to energy and energy to mass such that nothing but replication/teleport machines would have value: one could program a machine to convert any object into energy to get the instructions to replicate it by feeding energy into the machine. Pollution would be a thing of the past.

Enjoy your learning experience.

JMG.
 
ahh, flawed

ahh, flawed. u forgot to add- or didn't know- the new testament account of creation....it's further back in this thread. your creationest view implies that other worlds exist. no such evidence as of yet, but nor disputed.
cheers
 
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