History of the Holocaust

[(Q)]

Just because something is used as the justification doesn't mean its the reason why the war is happening.

So, are you saying the holy war between the Christians, Muslims and Jews is over? When did that happen?

 

[John99]

hitler was christian and Musolinni needed the church to control Italy.

Mussolini, who you most likely know nothing about, was certainly an Atheist. He only said he converted at a strategic time. you would have to be an imbecile to believe him plus he, like i said, followed his fathers lead. Dad was an Atheist.

Hitler, pioneer of propaganda, was raised as a christian but so were\many people. there is page after page of expert witnesses (his inner sanctum) where his true feelings were well established. unless you know more than his right hand men. and maybe you do.

 

[(Q)]

unless you know more than his right hand men. and maybe you do.

You should read Mein Kampf, words from the horses mouth, so to speak.

 

[pjdude1219]

Mussolini, who you most likely know nothing about, was certainly an Atheist. He only said he converted at a strategic time. you would have to be an imbecile to believe him plus he, like i said, followed his fathers lead. Dad was an Atheist.

I never said he wasn't. But he couldn't heedless go after the church. Its to enmeshed in Italian life.

Hitler, pioneer of propaganda, was raised as a christian but so were\many people. there is page after page of expert witnesses (his inner sanctum) where his true feelings were well established. unless you know more than his right hand men. and maybe you do.

You can be catholic and hate the church. The mere fact he disliked religions power doesn't alter his own faith. Did he practice probably not but without renouncing the church he was still a part of it.

 

[pjdude1219]

So, are you saying the holy war between the Christians, Muslims and Jews is over? When did that happen?

Most of those wars weren't about religion. Religion was merely an excuse.

 

[(Q)]

Most of those wars weren't about religion. Religion was merely an excuse.

And, chickens have lips.

 

[pjdude1219]

And, chickens have lips.

so the fact that the middle east sat on the greatest nexus of trade routes through out history up until the age of exploration had nothing to do with it?

 

[PsychoTropicPuppy]

Oh God no... we've been through this already...Hitler was a Christian. End of story.

 

[GeoffP]

Oh God no... we've been through this already...Hitler was a Christian. End of story.

Welll...actually he repudiated it, in private at least.

 

[Buffalo Roam]

As far as I can tell, S.A.M.'s ideas about Native Americans (and many other aspects of America besides) are mostly extrapolations/projections of her ideas about other issues (European colonialism, the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, the Holocaust, Apartheid, etc.). Note that she rarely addresses the subject on its own terms, rather than as a rhetorical bludgeon when discussing one of her pet issues (like in this thread).

Predictably, this makes for something of a muddle.

The interesting thing is that SAM want to equate the Palestinian situation with the Native Americans, and forget the major difference between the facts.

Native Americans are not out committing suicide bombings, murder, and mayhem, against their fellow Americans and neighbors, and have integrated themselves into the fabric of the American Nation, and in doing so, have negated the need for any injunction on their freedoms.

 

[S.A.M.]

The interesting thing is that SAM want to equate the Palestinian situation with the Native Americans, and forget the major difference between the facts.

Native Americans are not out committing suicide bombings, murder, and mayhem, against their fellow Americans and neighbors, and have integrated themselves into the fabric of the American Nation, and in doing so, have negated the need for any injunction on their freedoms.

Thats because they gave up. And are committing slow suicide instead.

Native Americans rank at the bottom of nearly every social statistic: highest teen suicide rate of all minorities at 18.5 per 100,000, highest rate of teen pregnancy, highest high school drop out rate at 54%, lowest per capita income, and unemployment rates between 50% to 90%.

I'm sure you'd be very pleased if the Palestinians also gave up and submitted to ethnic cleansing. I recall you considered this to be the "best of both worlds"

 

[Buffalo Roam]

Thats because they gave up. And are committing slow suicide instead.



I'm sure you'd be very pleased if the Palestinians also gave up and submitted to ethnic cleansing. I recall you considered this to be the "best of both worlds"

SAM, what ethnic cleansing? show me any such thing going on in the U.S. today, the Native Americans have a vibrant and living culture, I am proud to be a part of it, and it's resurgence.

Now can you tell me why the Palestinians are excluded from Israel?

I can list several thousands of reasons, and all of them having to do with the murderous attacks by the Palestinian on Israel, and the fact that the Palestinians refuses to make or keep any peace agreement, only the Hudna.

So why are you surprised that they are scrutinized and segregated as a danger to the Israelis? If Native Americans went around America, committing suicide bombing, launching rockets from their reservations, and carrying on a war against the rest of the Americans what do you think would be done to them?

But The Native Americans don't and there are no restrictions on their Lives, Movements, where they wish to live, or where their wish to work, We are free to go anywhere in America, and become anything we wish to be, why? because there is Peace, and we have relegated the past to History.

Thats because they gave up. And are committing slow suicide instead

Really, I think it is more;

"I tell you the past is a bucket of ashes, so live not in your yesterdays, nor just for tomorrow, but in the here and now. Keep moving and forget the post mortems; and remember, no one can get the jump on the future." -


-- Carl Sandburg

 

[S.A.M.]

Buffalo do you believe that people have a right NOT to be colonised? Do you?

What do the statistics [i.e. reality] of the native Americans tell you? Is there a genocide in progress?

 

[pjdude1219]

SAM, what ethnic cleansing? show me any such thing going on in the U.S. today, the Native Americans have a vibrant and living culture, I am proud to be a part of it, and it's resurgence.

Now can you tell me why the Palestinians are excluded from Israel?

I can list several thousands of reasons, and all of them having to do with the murderous attacks by the Palestinian on Israel, and the fact that the Palestinians refuses to make or keep any peace agreement, only the Hudna.

So why are you surprised that they are scrutinized and segregated as a danger to the Israelis? If Native Americans went around America, committing suicide bombing, launching rockets from their reservations, and carrying on a war against the rest of the Americans what do you think would be done to them?

But The Native Americans don't and there are no restrictions on their Lives, Movements, where they wish to live, or where their wish to work, We are free to go anywhere in America, and become anything we wish to be, why? because there is Peace, and we have relegated the past to History.

​

Really, I think it is more;

"I tell you the past is a bucket of ashes, so live not in your yesterdays, nor just for tomorrow, but in the here and now. Keep moving and forget the post mortems; and remember, no one can get the jump on the future." -


-- Carl Sandburg

bad example. The Us recognized the natives rights which ended any need for violence to acheive their objectives. The Israelis steadfastly oppose recognizing the palestinians rights which makes violence needed to defend their rights and Israel supresses the much larger non violent movements.

 

[CheskiChips]

bad example. The Us recognized the natives rights which ended any need for violence to acheive their objectives. The Israelis steadfastly oppose recognizing the palestinians rights which makes violence needed to defend their rights and Israel supresses the much larger non violent movements.

Israel has no troops stationed in Gaza, Gaza exists as an independent state recognized by Israel. Their elected government is HAMAS, it's given a name because HAMAS existed before Gaza was a recognized state.

 

[pjdude1219]

Israel has no troops stationed in Gaza, Gaza exists as an independent state recognized by Israel. Their elected government is HAMAS, it's given a name because HAMAS existed before Gaza was a recognized state.

Independent states get to decide what comes into or out of their country. Gaza and the palestinians are about as independent as the Sorbs are.

 

[S.A.M.]

Israel has no troops stationed in Gaza, Gaza exists as an independent state recognized by Israel. Their elected government is HAMAS, it's given a name because HAMAS existed before Gaza was a recognized state.

Do Gazans need to carry an ID card from Israel for purposes of entering and leaving Gaza? Like the Teudat Zehut? Do all Palestinians carry the same ID card or are there different ones for those in Gaza, West Bank, Jerusalem and Israel?

What is the reason for this?

Prior to the creation of the Palestinian Authority in 1994, the Israeli government – through the military occupation bureaucracy euphemistically known as the Civil Administration – issued identity cards to the residents of territory occupied in 1967. Those living in the West Bank had orange cards, those in the Gaza Strip had maroon ones and East Jerusalemites carried blue cards which indicate Israeli residency but not citizenship. It made no difference whether they had lived for generations in Palestine, whether they were refugees, ‘official’ returnees (who accompanied officials of the Palestinian Authority back from exile following the 1993 Oslo Accords) or IDPs. Such terms are essentially meaningless within an Israeli-dominated administrative landscape in which Palestinians are either legitimate or illegitimate residents whose status can be altered at whim.

As a result of the Oslo Accords the act of issuing identity cards passed to the Palestinian Authority. Nonetheless, because Israel retained – and continues to retain – control over the Palestinian population registry, it is Israel that determines the rights and status of all Palestinians living on occupied land. The PA has no power to intervene on behalf of its people. Information on the name, age, date and place of birth, political affiliation and security record of all individuals are stored on a computer database accessed by Israeli officials at checkpoints and border crossings.

Today, ID-holding residents of the West Bank and Gaza are entitled to change the colour of their ID cards to green, the colour of ID cards issued by the PA, though some still carry the older Civil Administration versions. East Jerusalemites still hold blue ID cards. The PA-issued ID cards contain a photograph and relevant personal information. While they appear to be identity documents issued by a sovereign authority, in fact they are still directly linked to the Israeli-controlled population registry and corresponding information database. The information printed on the cards appears in Hebrew, Arabic and English. ID-card holders legally reside in the OPT but are citizens of no land, hence encounter constant obstacles using their ‘passports’ for international travel and the constant difficulties that accompany stateless persons across the globe.

Adnan is a Palestinian living in Gaza and married to an Algerian woman, Fatima. More than a decade ago they applied for legalisation of her residence but are still awaiting a response. Fatima cannot leave Gaza because she has neither an ID card nor passport. If she leaves, she may never be allowed back.

http://74.125.153.132/search?q=cach...oon&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=in&client=firefox-a

What do you think of the Jews being asked to carry identification during WWII? Or at various other times in history?

 

[CheskiChips]

Independent states get to decide what comes into or out of their country. Gaza and the palestinians are about as independent as the Sorbs are.

Israelis can't enter Palestine. When they declare war on them, they can.

Do Gazans need to carry an ID card from Israel for purposes of entering and leaving Gaza? Like the Teudat Zehut? Do all Palestinians carry the same ID card or are there different ones for those in Gaza, West Bank, Jerusalem and Israel?

What is the reason for this?



What do you think of the Jews being asked to carry identification during WWII? Or at various other times in history?

I have to carry a passport to go to Mexico and back, if anything that's a sign of sovereignty not a sign against.

 

[S.A.M.]

Israelis can't enter Palestine. When they declare war on them, they can.

Which part?

I have to carry a passport to go to Mexico and back, if anything that's a sign of sovereignty not a sign against.

Do you have to carry a different coloured one from the native Americans?

 

[Buffalo Roam]

bad example. The Us recognized the natives rights which ended any need for violence to acheive their objectives. The Israelis steadfastly oppose recognizing the palestinians rights which makes violence needed to defend their rights and Israel supresses the much larger non violent movements.

Really? and what happened between 1890 the end of the Indian wars and 1924? the Indian wars were over for 25 years, no attacks.

Now how about the next 40 years, rights for Native Americans really didn't become universal until the Civil Rights Acts of the 60tys.

Did the Native Americans continue a war that ended in 1890? Did they send out suicide bombers to attack Americans? Did they launch rockets from the reservations? no---they took the long road, and in the end we survived and prospered, the culture has reemerged, the pride is back, and the past is just what it is, the Past, a bucket of cold ash.

That is what is necessary for the Arabs of Palestine, and that is what they are Arabs, and they have been meanly used by their Fellow Arabs and Muslims for political purpose, but in the end the only hope is for the Palestinians to recognize that they have lost, make Peace, and move into the Future.

If they want their rights recognized, they must make it so their rights can be recognized, and to continue to send suicide bombers, rockets and missiles into Israel will not get then any rights, only more death and destruction, and until they recognize the rights of Israel, and the Jews, why should Israel give them a break? when all it does in end up with the death of more Israelis?


Other wise nothing will change, and in end the Mushrooms will bloom, and they will die with the Jews.