History of the Holocaust

[S.A.M.]

Some do, some don't. ? Of course. The US has a great many public schools, all of them available to the public. Even, in areas with significant Ojibwe populations, schools like this one .

The US has a lot of problems with its school systems, of course - Red tribe children get, on average, significantly poorer educations than White children, for a variety of reasons all of them indicting.

Not only education:

Native Americans rank at the bottom of nearly every social statistic: highest teen suicide rate of all minorities at 18.5 per 100,000, highest rate of teen pregnancy, highest high school drop out rate at 54%, lowest per capita income, and unemployment rates between 50% to 90%.

Why do you suppose that is?

Except for the Amish, Mennonites, Quakers, Mormons, and the like.

Or the Jews, in the US.

All immigrant communities, self sufficient and with cultural and religious taboos against assimilatio [which apparently do not work as well when the opportunities for assimilation are greater than the barriers to them]

But in the case of the former cultural groups of the Great Plains, their "cleansing" by the Mandan, Cheyenne, Blackfoot, Dakota, and other horse-adopting ("westernized"?) groups was so thorough only paleontological traces remain. Perhaps similarly among other vanished Red peoples of North America, whose cities and fields are sites of archaeology rather than anthropology, but more likely the flu.

The major holocausts of the Red people of North America north of the Rio Grande were apparently by disease. There were many comparatively small genocides, by human agency, but nothing on the scale of the Holocaust of the Jews in WWII - and nothing if that kind, of an intermixed population of a given culture intentionally massacred by their cultural fellows.

Has there ever been a case [besides the Nazis, apparently], when the perpetrators kept accurate body counts? Where do the Pequot Indians who were burned alive come in? And the Iroqouis villages burned down?

Where does SAM come up with the idea that the Native Americans are held on Reservation?

The only time I ever realise that I am crossing onto or leaving a Reservation is when I see the little road sign that says I am entering or leaving a Reservation, It is the same for the Native Americans, no guard post, no papers, no road blocks, nothing, not even a speed bump, yes SAM come to visit the real America, not your demented delusion.

?? But you're perfectly okay with apartheid and segregation, so there is no problem even if there were walls and blockades and the native Americans were oppressed into extinction anyway

 

[PsychoTropicPuppy]

....The study, funded by the Department for Education and Skills, looked into 'emotive and controversial' history teaching in primary and secondary schools.

It found some teachers are dropping courses covering the Holocaust at the earliest opportunity over fears Muslim pupils might express anti-Semitic and anti-Israel reactions in class.

The researchers gave the example of a secondary school in an unnamed northern city, which dropped the Holocaust as a subject for GCSE coursework.

The report said teachers feared confronting 'anti-Semitic sentiment and Holocaust denial among some Muslim pupils'.

It added: "In another department, the Holocaust was taught despite anti-Semitic sentiment among some pupils....


....The report concluded: "In particular settings, teachers of history are unwilling to challenge highly contentious or charged versions of history in which pupils are steeped at home, in their community or in a place of worship."....

Jesus f*cking Christ...serious...serious..serious..?!

_________________
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-445979/Teachers-drop-Holocaust-avoid-offending-Muslims.html

 

[GeoffP]

Similar goings-on in France, as I recall.

 

[John99]

Where does SAM come up with the idea that the Native Americans are held on Reservation?

who cares?

 

[S.A.M.]

If the idea is for people to "learn from history" perhaps they could teach the holocaust as a raison d'etre for Palestinian nakba and dispossession.

I bet more students would be interested in current history if it was shown how historical events can be misused to continue oppression.

 

[GeoffP]

If the idea is for people to "learn from history" perhaps they could teach the holocaust as a raison d'etre for Palestinian nakba and dispossession.

I see that you consider this the only value of that lesson. How despicable.

 

[S.A.M.]

How despicable that Never Again does not apply to Palestinians? Isn't that the lesson of the holocaust?

What did you learn from it?

 

[John99]

If the idea is for people to "learn from history" perhaps they could teach the holocaust as a raison d'etre for Palestinian nakba and dispossession.

I bet more students would be interested in current history if it was shown how historical events can be misused to continue oppression.

yeah but it is best to be honest otherwise dont even bother teaching history.

 

[PsychoTropicPuppy]

History facts shouldn't be used to manipulate people's mindset. It shouldn't be biased either, but everything should be covered, no matter what f*cking denomination you're from, or ethnicity. To not cover a certain part in history just because there are some people who might feel offended at the prospect of it is being historically dishonest.

 

[S.A.M.]

Agreed, but if they are going to teach the holocaust, they should teach the consequences of it to the Palestinians.

Otherwise its like holding a class on the adversity of Germans before WWII, to Jews, and skipping any mention of the holocaust

 

[John99]

History facts shouldn't be used to manipulate people's mindset. It shouldn't be biased either, but everything should be covered, no matter what f*cking denomination you're from, or ethnicity. To not cover a certain part in history just because there are some people who might feel offended at the prospect of it is being historically dishonest.

that is why it is sometimes brain pollution.

 

[John99]

its a shame. a damn shame.

 

[PsychoTropicPuppy]

Agreed, but if they are going to teach the holocaust, they should teach the consequences of it to the Palestinians.

Otherwise its like holding a class on the adversity of Germans before WWII, to Jews, and skipping any mention of the holocaust

Agreed. I always thought that they didn't go enough deep into the subject of what happened with the Jews after the Holocaust, and what consequences it meant for both, the Jews, and the Arabs of that particular region. But I presume that there just isn't enough time to cover everything in a detailed fashion. I might eventually see it as a good thing if those schools would provide extra lessons for those who'd like to dig a bit deeper into a certain part of history, not compulsory of course.

 

[S.A.M.]

Agreed. I always thought that they didn't go enough deep into the subject of what happened with the Jews after the Holocaust, and what consequences it meant for both, the Jews, and the Arabs of that particular region. But I presume that there just isn't enough time to cover everything in a detailed fashion. I might eventually see it as a good thing if those schools would provide extra lessons for those who'd like to dig a bit deeper into a certain part of history, not compulsory of course.

Sure, why not?

I wonder what they teach here:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/e...-where-half-the-pupils-are-muslim-434481.html

 

[mike47]

that is why it is sometimes brain pollution.

What I see as bizzare is the fact that some countries have laws to try anyone who does not agree with the mainstream holocaust version of events .
some highly respected scholars were dragged in criminal cases because they questioned the holocaust events . For instance if a scholar says only 4 million Jews died and not 6 million it is a criminal offence in some parts of the world . The irony is those people who were prosecuted were highly educated folks in their fields .

 

[PsychoTropicPuppy]

Sure, why not?

I wonder what they teach here:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/e...-where-half-the-pupils-are-muslim-434481.html

No clue...
Is state school = public school? If yes..then it's really surprising that it's not a private school.
But I sure like the prospect that those two groups can be together peacefully at least in some place, even though small.

 

[John99]

What I see as bizzare is the fact that some countries have laws to try anyone who does not agree with the mainstream holocaust version of events .
some highly respected scholars were dragged in criminal cases because they questioned the holocaust events . For instance if a scholar says only 4 million Jews died and not 6 million it is a criminal offence in some parts of the world .

anyone can say anything. i dont see the point in lying about 2 million people and if you look at the death tolls combined i dont see why there would be any doubt.

The irony is those people who were prosecuted were highly educated folks in their fields .

and? what field is that?

 

[StrawDog]

What I see as bizzare is the fact that some countries have laws to try anyone who does not agree with the mainstream holocaust version of events .
some highly respected scholars were dragged in criminal cases because they questioned the holocaust events . For instance if a scholar says only 4 million Jews died and not 6 million it is a criminal offence in some parts of the world . The irony is those people who were prosecuted were highly educated folks in their fields .

Yes, that is regrettable. Hopefully these laws will eventually be revoked. Open inquiry across all topics should be an universal right. This particular law arguably dilutes other atrocities perpetrated against humanity.

 

[iceaura]

What I see as bizzare is the fact that some countries have laws to try anyone who does not agree with the mainstream holocaust version of events .
some highly respected scholars were dragged in criminal cases because they questioned the holocaust events . For instance if a scholar says only 4 million Jews died and not 6 million it is a criminal offence in some parts of the world .

In what part of the world is it a criminal offense to say that 4 million Jews died in the Holocaust, instead of 6 million?

Why do you suppose that is?

I always assumed it was mostly a consequence of racial and cultural bigotry among the powerful.

All immigrant communities, self sufficient and with cultural and religious taboos against assimilation

That is false. Most of those communities formed in the US and Canada - Jews, for example, did not immigrate as a community, but as culturally disparate and scattered individuals, small groups, etc. And they were not "self-sufficient".

Ther Mormons are no more an "immigrant group" than the horse-back Shoshoni.

And as far as "cultural and religious taboos against assimilation", what is your point? What groups do you identify as without such "taboos"?

Has there ever been a case [besides the Nazis, apparently], when the perpetrators kept accurate body counts?

The Holocaust was indeed a unique and uniquely terrible genocide, wasn't it.

Although apparently similar records were kept in Honduras and Argentina, and maybe in Brazil and Mexico and Peru in the recent past. One of the attributes of fascisim, possibly - although the argument that the old Aztecs, who apparently kept such records, were fascists, has not been made AFAIK.

 

[Buffalo Roam]

?? But you're perfectly okay with apartheid and segregation, so there is no problem even if there were walls and blockades and the native Americans were oppressed into extinction anyway

What apartheid? what segregation? what extinction? Native Americans live anywhere they want, go anywhere they wish, no check points, no papers, no walls, no fences, we don't have a cast system, just how ill informed can you be and still call your self educated, but one thing is fully apparent your ingrained anti American bigotry, bias, and dogmatism.