History of the Holocaust

[GeoffP]

All good, but I'm part Pashtun, part Gujarati [low caste, so presumably one of the displaced natives], first generation born in Mumbai. We immigrated legally and speak the local lingo. Now Geoff on the other hand, lives in native America with his native American assimilated wife. Capische?

Allow me to step in the poop Sam is slinging: no. You make no sense.

Anyway I don't really give a shit. I just like to hear Geoff defending Yiddih speaking Jews in Poland

Okaaay.

and haranguing against Arabic speaking Muslims in Europe

And I've done this where, exactly?

while talking about Palestinians who had their rights diluted by "Arab" blood

Well, I'm sorry, but it was your link, Sam. You started in about all this supremacist genetics nonsense, and I illustrated that your cause celebre wasn't really completely indigenous either. Frankly, I find all this successionalist garbage distasteful.

, all while he lives in America with his native American wife who has been "assimilated" by colonisers and with his five mixed race children [apparently all with diluted rights to their native American ancestry]

Only three, but thanks for your racist banter. It keeps me current on your mental state.

 

[S.A.M.]

Only three, but thanks for your racist banter. It keeps me current on your mental state.

Ah three, is it? Sorry, I thought you had two more. Its not racist banter, its simply a transposition of your attitude to others which you don't consider as racism. Do you?

 

[GeoffP]

What attitude? I'm genuinely curious. And you never answered my other questions, either.

 

[quadraphonics]

Hey, my dad was the first to marry out of his low caste community. We can trace his family back quite a bit. Probably the Pashtun side as well.

Not nearly far enough to establish wild claims such as being among the first humans to colonize India.

I don't.

So which of your claims are you dropping, then? Indigenous land rights, or the transcendance of borders?

Read my post, I like to see Geoff's cognitive dissonance at work. Is that wicked?

If what you mean by that is that you aren't presenting a consistent position at all, but simply tossing off whatever arguments you think will get under the skin of people you dislike, then the name for it is "trolling."

 

[GeoffP]

So which of your claims are you dropping, then? Indigenous land rights, or the transcendance of borders?

I don't normally engage in this but: haw. Nice point. Sam, I think you should answer quadrophonics first. I'm interested to see what comes of this.

 

[S.A.M.]

Not nearly far enough to establish wild claims such as being among the first humans to colonize India.

So which of your claims are you dropping, then? Indigenous land rights, or the transcendance of borders?

Hey, I'm a gypsy at heart, I don't care about borders. I simply like to laugh at those who promote assimilation while colonising.

 

[GeoffP]

A deft avoidance. My salutations.

 

[quadraphonics]

Hey, I'm a gypsy at heart, I don't care about borders.

Okay then, transcendance of borders is the one you're keeping. I'll be sure to discount any assertions of indigenous land rights you may make in the future as dishonest provocations.

I simply like to laugh at those who promote assimilation while colonising.

Geoff isn't "colonizing," if that's what you're referring to.

 

[iceaura]

I don't care about borders. I simply like to laugh at those who promote assimilation while colonising.

? That's pretty tangled. Although if it is simply taken as the guiding philosophy of some agency like the US military in occupation mode, then it makes straightforward sense.

 

[S.A.M.]

Okay then, transcendance of borders is the one you're keeping. I'll be sure to discount any assertions of indigenous land rights you may make in the future as dishonest provocations.

Do you think I should impose my personal beliefs on others

No, I still care about people being dispossessed, whether it is Kashmiri Indians or Palestinians.

Geoff isn't "colonizing," if that's what you're referring to.

He's certainly in no position to be complaining about immigrants assimilating, not while he lives in a country where the natives are parked on reservations.

 

[quadraphonics]

Do you think I should impose my personal beliefs on others

I think you should come up with a reasoned, consistent set of personal beliefs, if you want others to take them seriously.

No, I still care about people being dispossessed, whether it is Kashmiri Indians or Palestinians.

That's not the same thing as indigenous rights to land.

He's certainly in no position to be complaining about immigrants assimilating, not while he lives in a country where the natives are parked on reservations.

Doesn't follow: Geoff (or his ancestors) assimilated to the local culture in exactly the way he proposes others do.

That the local culture used to be something other than what it is now isn't relevant: Geoff didn't colonize North America. That shit happened hundreds of years before he was born. Just like the displacement of the native Indians happened long before you were born.

 

[S.A.M.]

I think you should come up with a reasoned, consistent set of personal beliefs, if you want others to take them seriously.

Why? If I don't believe in abortion I should be opposed to other people having it too? I think its perfectly possible to have a personal ideology for yourself, while still sympathising with different beliefs in others.

That's not the same thing as indigenous rights to land.

Maybe, who cares? I see Brooklyn Jews setting up tin huts and Palestinians being bombed with white phosphorus because they are not Jews. To me its a clear cut case of racism.

Doesn't follow: Geoff (or his ancestors) assimilated to the local culture in exactly the way he proposes others do.

That the local culture used to be something other than what it is now isn't relevant: Geoff didn't colonize North America. That shit happened hundreds of years before he was born. Just like the displacement of the native Indians happened long before you were born.

He pays taxes, he lives in the US. He is married to a native American. Native Americans who do not follow the foreign culture live on reservations. Who is he assimilated with?

 

[iceaura]

not while he lives in a country where the natives are parked on reservations.

They aren't.

Native Americans who do not follow the foreign culture live on reservations.

Some do, some don't, both ways and all cultures involved.

Many Ojibwe who do not follow the Dakota culture, even after invading and occupying the Dakota lands, live in Minneapolis, for example.

 

[S.A.M.]

They aren't.
Some do, some don't, both ways and all cultures involved.

Many Ojibwe who do not follow the Dakota culture, even after invading and occupying the Dakota lands, live in Minneapolis, for example.

Are you really comparing the Ojibwe invasion to the ethnic cleansing of native Americans? Sheesh. Anyway my point was no American resident can talk of assimilation, first because manifest destiny has never stopped, second because none of them ever assimilated with the natives, third, because they forcibly export "democracy" with bombs. Really, they have no moral credibility to be deciding what people who come there should do.

Meanwhile, I wanted to confirm something, is it true that the correct answer to the immigration question "Who discovered America" is still Columbus? What happens if the immigration official is part native American? Can you say, I don't know which native American tribe discovered it?

 

[quadraphonics]

Why? If I don't believe in abortion I should be opposed to other people having it too?

Non-sequitur. The issue was consistency of your own beliefs in the first place.

Maybe, who cares? I see Brooklyn Jews setting up tin huts and Palestinians being bombed with white phosphorus because they are not Jews. To me its a clear cut case of racism.

Another non-sequitur. The issue was not "racism," but the right to tracts of land dervied from indigenous ancestry.

He pays taxes, he lives in the US. He is married to a native American.

So?

Native Americans who do not follow the foreign culture live on reservations.

No. You really have no clue what you're talking about. Take it from someone who grew up in close proximity to dozens of reservations.

Who is he assimilated with?

Not "who" but "what:" the local culture, as I explicitly stated.

 

[S.A.M.]

I visited a native American store in Tennessee. It was interesting. I wondered, why can't natives live in the US as Indians with varied culture do in India? Why can't there be local accommodation for their languages and religions so that they can be citizens without giving up their own history and culture? Why do they have to choose between casinos or poverty or else become westernised?

 

[spidergoat]

They do, what are you talking about?

 

[S.A.M.]

Where do they teach native American languages locally in schools?

 

[CheskiChips]

I visited a native American store in Tennessee. It was interesting. I wondered, why can't natives live in the US as Indians with varied culture do in India? Why can't there be local accommodation for their languages and religions so that they can be citizens without giving up their own history and culture? Why do they have to choose between casinos or poverty or else become westernised?

I remember when a local tribe hired a state university to help with their diabetes problem. The university claimed their genetic similarity to Asians helped assist in finding programs. The Native Americans said "We were born out of the Grand Canyon, and what you're saying is slander" and sued the University.

 

[quadraphonics]

I wondered, why can't natives live in the US as Indians with varied culture do in India?

They can and do.

Why can't there be local accommodation for their languages and religions so that they can be citizens without giving up their own history and culture?

There are.

Why do they have to choose between casinos or poverty or else become westernised?

They don't.