Healthcare (AMERICANS ONLY!!!)

[one_raven]

I am not a "bleeding heart liberal".
I'm not even a Democrat, but you wouldn't know that because you don't ask - it's easier to place me into one of your compartmentalized labeled boxes rather than see me as an individual human.
One of those same compartmentalized boxes you place yourself into.

You know who WAS a bleeding heart liberal, though...
You know where the expression comes from, don't you?
Of course you do.

"Awesome child of God".
Compassionate too, right?
Oh, that's right, you bought your compassion from your church after you were "Born Again".

Someone who is willing to let children starve or go without proper medical care because the actions of their parents do not meet judgemental her moral approval, or the simple fact that there were born outside some arbitrary, imaginary land boundry - to protect her luxuries knows nothing of compassion.

 

[sandy]

I know you've attacked me since I got here and it's not letting up. I never said anything about starving children. That was YOUR distorted rant. Just put me on ignore. I don't want to discuss anything with you anymore. You're too confrontational and you twist/warp my words.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

So I see two problems-
1. The high cost of producing cures, operations, etc
2. The virtually limitless value a person places on their own life. Essentially, the drug companies and doctors become a monopoly. They can place almost any cost they like on what they produce because a) there aren't many cures/surgeons and b) people will pay whatever they charge.

Every insurance company I have ever had payed either 100% (less doctor-choice flexibility) or 90% (limitless flexibility), so any high costs really have not impacted me.

I think the only problem is that not everyone has insurance. Some folks think the government should provide health care; however, it has always been a fundamentally bad decision for government to run a complex service. Usually quality and time to delivery sufferes greatly.

Really the best solution would be for the government to subsidize healthcare for people whom don't have it (ex. healthcare stamps). It's extremely beneficial for the government to keep its citizens healthy. Really we should be doing the same thing with public education and other services, but that's a different can of worms.

 

[Cortex_Colossus]

We see that this is blocked, however by a) patent laws and the FDA, and b) how much value do you place on your life.

Allow me to elaborate a little.
a) A company produces a drug, at great expense, due to extensive mandatory testing, and liability insurance and whatnot. Naturally, they're not going to share their new miracle cure because
b) you're dying and willing to sell everything you own to buy that cure. And so is your family.

So I see two problems-
1. The high cost of producing cures, operations, etc
2. The virtually limitless value a person places on their own life. Essentially, the drug companies and doctors become a monopoly. They can place almost any cost they like on what they produce because a) there aren't many cures/surgeons and b) people will pay whatever they charge.

Your thoughts, Americans?

It would be nice if corporations placed a higher premium on human life. Make it publicly funded and administered the way Canadians have it with their Health care. The problem with America is that the corporations are turning imperialist. Remove Federal control and put drug companies on a state by state basis. Have all citizens qualify for coverage regardless of age and standard of living. Encourage the education of doctors by lowering tuition and increasing salaries.

 

[one_raven]

I never said anything about starving children. That was YOUR distorted rant.

It is implicit and ineviatble in your positions, and if you were to honestly look at yourself for once, you might see that.

Just put me on ignore.

No.

 

[one_raven]

Cortex_Colossus,
Doctors don't get paid enough?

 

[sandy]

My friends in Canada say their healthcare is a nightmare. They tell of waiting years for operations. Months for approval for emergencies. Substandard healthcare. Long lines. Long waits. People abuse the system and run to the doctor everytime their nose runs.

Getting the government involved in healthcare is suicidal.
Getting the government involved in many things is foolish. Look at FEMA. Need I say anymore?

 

[Cortex_Colossus]

Cortex_Colossus,
Doctors don't get paid enough?

I don't think there is enough incentive for people to become doctors anymore.

 

[one_raven]

I don't think there is enough incentive for people to become doctors anymore.

I don't think there is a lck of doctors or med students in this country at all.
What do you base that assesment on?

 

[sandy]

When my brilliant never-sued neurologist friend pays $300k for a $2M malpractice policy he is wondering when it will end. He says the frivolous lawsuits/ridiculous awards are ruining it for all of them.

It's not so much about the incentive. It's about the passion they feel for their profession.

 

[Oniw17]

It's all about self-responsibility. Ambition. Wanting to be successful in life. It's not about handouts and being a loser. There's always an answer. There's always a solution to get ahead.

There's not always a solution. That is pure fantasy. If there's a winner, there HAS to be a loser. Not everyone can be at the top, someone has to play the slave. That's who poor people are. You act like all poor people are lazy drug-addicts who expect everything to be handed to them. Isn't this more true of the rich? WTF? You act like people don't try. My mom's worked with 6 kids(before she had the other 2), with no daycare or shit. You think poor people don't want to go outside alone for a walk without getting jumped, or to live in a neighborhood where their kids aren't at risk of being shot if they're out too late, or to be successful? Do you actually believe that? Do you really think people want to sell crack so they can go to prison for years or be killed if some head gets too brave or snitches? Seriously...do you think ANYONE wants to live in public housing or other 'ghettos'? Nobody wants to be working and poor either. Think about it. Anyone who wants to be poor is a fucking lier.

If people don't want kids they should be very careful when they have sex. Condoms, sterilization, etc.

Condoms and pills don't always work.

Abortion should never be a method of birth control.

So you think poor people shouldn't have sex?

I never said I wanted any kids to die. Parents need to be more responsible. If you can't afford kids and ALL they entail, don't have them.

Basically what you're saying is that poor people have no right to exist?

It's parents jobs to teach kids to read. Not schools.

Parents(especially poor parents) aren't trained to properly teach kids anything. What are they supposed to do if their child is dyslexic or borderline-retarded? What if they can't read that well themselves? What if the parents are drug-adicts? The child shouldn't be taught to read? SCHOOlS ARE THERE TO TEACH PEOPLE. It's not the school's job to teach them the single most important skill they could ever have though?

Kids should be reading by 4 or 5. They should have books in their hands by age 1.

...and if they're not? It's better that they never learn?

The handicapped do deserve some special services but their parents should have planned ahead.

First of all, I'm only talking about developmentally handicapped people, and the special services is what prevents them from being normal adults. They need to be held back until their minds catch up with their bodies...and yes, because everyone has the ability to plan for everything in their lives.

 

[Baron Max]

What bothers me about this issue is ...if people want to help others, I think that's fine, I do the same with people that I know and love. But why do you insist on the taxpayers helping everyone? Why shouldn't people help people when and if they can?

And worse, most of y'all who are insisting that the government help ...isn't that the very same government that you rail against for corruption, dishonesty and ineffectiveness? And you want the goverment to do anything?

I'm not against helping people, but I am against being forced to do it.

Baron Max

 

[Baron Max]

First of all, I'm only talking about developmentally handicapped people, and the special services is what prevents them from being normal adults.

So, ...help them! But why try to force everyone else to help them? Surely you can't think that's anything like fair, do you?

I think people should help disadvantaged and unfortunate people. I do it myself. But I don't like being forced to do so. That can't be right or fair in a nation that calls itself "free".

Baron Max

 

[Cortex_Colossus]

I don't think there is a lck of doctors or med students in this country at all.
What do you base that assesment on?

Yes but is it out of the goodness of their own heart?

 

[S.A.M.]

Yes but is it out of the goodness of their own heart?

Do you have any idea what medicine entails? I doubt anyone would undertake it for fun.

 

[Baron Max]

Yes but is it out of the goodness of their own heart?

Why yes, of course! And they're all praying that the government takes over all of the healthcare in this nation ...so they can make a decent, poverty-level wage and living, instead of the fuckin' fortune that most of 'em make!

I just want to ask ...... When the govenment takes over anything in this country, what happens? Does it run smooth and carefree? With no problems or issues at all?

Baron Max

 

[Baron Max]

Do you have any idea what medicine entails? I doubt anyone would undertake it for fun.

Probably not, but a good, acceptable minimum wage should be enticement enough, do you think? ...for such dedicated, selfless people like Hippocrates?

Baron Max

 

[S.A.M.]

Probably not, but a good, acceptable minimum wage should be enticement enough, do you think? ...for such dedicated, selfless people like Hippocrates?

Baron Max

Only if you agree to go under the blade to someone paid minimum wage.

 

[one_raven]

It's interesting that doctors in this country used to be quite poor and only were doctors out of the goodness of their hearts and their ability and real passion to treat and serve others.

Now many of them do it for the money - because there IS so much money in it - and for the status.
Malpractice insurance costs rising or not, doctors are rich!

 

[Baron Max]

It's interesting that doctors in this country used to be quite poor and only were doctors out of the goodness of their hearts and their ability and real passion to treat and serve others.

Yeah, and as soon as we institute free national healthcare, we can return once again to those glorious days of yesteryear! There'll be Dr. Marcus Welby's comin' out of med schools by the gazillions!

Baron Max