Have you ever thought, perhaps we are following a path?

Norsefire said:
You see? This is exactly it; if there is a God, He or It is doing a good job of fooling you.
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And if he is not trying to fool anyone, if he doesn't even give a flying fuck about life, then it's you whose being fooled.

In any case, I don't concern myself with such matters. It's all pulled out of your ass at this point.
 
one_raven said:
First of all, I said they have the same ROOTS, not RESULTS – which was in direct response to the statement I was quoting.
Secondly, if you honestly believe there are not just as many atheists that are just as certain in the Big Bang and the laws of Physics as theists are certain about God, you are deluding yourself.
Try looking at the situation honestly, rather than like an apologist attempting to shore up your argument. You are taking normal, fair-minded atheists and comparing them to rabid fundamentalists. This tactic is not surprising, though.

How did religions start?
People recognized their vulnerability to the world around them.
They feared and respected the things they did not understand, which had power over them.
They came up with stories, legends, Gods and other traditions to try and explain those things they did not understand.
As they gained more knowledge of the world around them, the Gods slowly dies off.
They gained scientific knowledge about atmosphere and electricity, and the Gods no longer controlled the lightening.

Both science and religion have the same roots – they come from the same place… Fear of the unknown and human curiosity about the world around us.

Why do you think so many people still believe in Abraham’s God in this day and age of technical advance and scientific knowledge?
You can toss it off as them simply being stupid and superstitious if you wish, but you would be a fool, reveling in your own ignorance.
God still exists, because there is still the unknown – what happens after we die.

Yes, there are MANY Atheists who are just as certain that there is absolutely nothing after death as there are theists who are absolutely sure about their religious beliefs (probably more, because most religious people are not as certain as you like to portray them).

Those who are unsure, though, look for answers because most humans are too scared and too arrogant to say, “I don’t know”.


That’s a convenient way to look at it.
Especially if you don’t even define “religionist”.
90% of the world consider themselves a member of one religion or another. So are they all deluded morons and you are one of the brilliant 10% who has all the answers?
You seem pretty certain of yourself.
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Yes to the last bit but I am intelligent enough to know that I have not got all the answers. Only a god-botherer or a fool would believe that of himself. Deluded morons are your words not mine.
 
Myles said:
Yes to the last bit but I am intelligent enough to know that I have not got all the answers. Only a god-botherer or a fool would believe that of himself. Deluded morons are your words not mine.
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And there are not atheist fools?
I'd say it's about equal on both sides.
 
one_raven said:
And there are not atheist fools?
I'd say it's about equal on both sides.
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You would be wrong. Studies have shown an inverse relationship between intelligence and religiosity.

You will find fools in every walk of life and atheists are no exception. Most of us, however, have used our reason to arrive at our position. That is true of very few religionists, and I include theologians.
 
Myles said:
You would be wrong. Studies have shown an inverse relationship between intelligence and religiosity.
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There goes that "reality" word.

So, let me get this straight...
Theists are fools because they have certainty in their belief in a God, even though the existence of any God can not be proven by science.
You, however, are wise because of your certainty that theists are fools.
Theists are fools because they have faith in what they beleive - you are wise because you have faith in what you believe.

I get it now.
Those who disagree with your position on an unproveable claim are fools.

There is something you seem to be missing.
This has nothing to do with what "relaity" is.
By your assessment, theists are fools because of their certainty...
Myles said:
Nonsense. Show me an atheist who enjoys the same certainty as that of a religionist !
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...not whether or not they are correct in their assumptions about what reality is.
In fact, you claim that...
Myles said:
Yes to the last bit but I am intelligent enough to know that I have not got all the answers.
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...so no one really KNOWS the underlying truth of reality, do they?

How many different models have been developed regarding the structure and mechanics of the atom? and we still don't know.
How many different models are there regarding the "fabric" of space, the creation of the universe and every other "unknowable" aspect of existence? and we still don't know.

Yet you claim that there is a direct inverse correlation between "religiosity" and "reality".
If you don't know what reality is, how can you possibly make that claim?
Are you purposely being disingenuous or are you a fool?

If it is religious people's claim of certainty which makes them fools (again, most religious people do not make such a claim and nearly all of them struggle with faith and what to believe - it is just the fundamentalist minority who make such claims) why is it your certainty that they are wrong makes you wise?
 
one_raven said:
There goes that "reality" word.

So, let me get this straight...
Theists are fools because they have certainty in their belief in a God, even though the existence of any God can not be proven by science.
You, however, are wise because of your certainty that theists are fools.
Theists are fools because they have faith in what they beleive - you are wise because you have faith in what you believe.

I get it now.
Those who disagree with your position on an unproveable claim are fools.

There is something you seem to be missing.
This has nothing to do with what "relaity" is.
By your assessment, theists are fools because of their certainty...

...not whether or not they are correct in their assumptions about what reality is.
In fact, you claim that...

...so no one really KNOWS the underlying truth of reality, do they?

How many different models have been developed regarding the structure and mechanics of the atom? and we still don't know.
How many different models are there regarding the "fabric" of space, the creation of the universe and every other "unknowable" aspect of existence? and we still don't know.

Yet you claim that there is a direct inverse correlation between "religiosity" and "reality".
If you don't know what reality is, how can you possibly make that claim?
Are you purposely being disingenuous or are you a fool?

If it is religious people's claim of certainty which makes them fools (again, most religious people do not make such a claim and nearly all of them struggle with faith and what to believe - it is just the fundamentalist minority who make such claims) why is it your certainty that they are wrong makes you wise?
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Reality Where did that come from ? You are misquoting me. I said there is a negative correlation between intelligence and religiousity !!!!!

Because there is no objective evidence to support his existence, the chances of there being a god are highly unlikely. So, on balance, I reject the notion of god.

Those who believe in god accept evidence which does not hold up in a rational debate. That is why I believe they are wrong.

This topic has been flogged to death, covering personal experience, books said to be holy, prophets and so on, none of which can be defended rationally.

You are putting words in my mouth talking of fools and morons , when I have said no such thing. I assume you believe this bolsters your case somehow; it does not.

I believe people who claim there is a god are foolish for entertaining a belief which, to a rational mind, cannot be shown to be true. God is on a par with the tooth fairy. You are, of course, free to disagree but , if you do so, let's have reasons instead of the tired old arguments which are repeated ad nauseam !

If you believe in a creator-god you must surely believe he gave you the ability to reason. Use it !
 
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davewhite04 said:
So in a sense, you think it's possible that God is some sort of behavioural scientist?
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First off, Myles, the chances of there being a god are equally likely to the chances of there not being a god; god is not on par with the tooth fairy. It's an actual explanation for something of which there is good reason to believe is true.


Dave: this is something I've thought of before; perhaps we are some experiment? Not Earth or Humanity, but the universe as a whole. The universe could be some sort of machine.
 
This is exactly what Sir Isaac Newton didn't want people to think when he made his discoveries.

It does look like clockwork from a certain perspective.
 
Norsefire said:
First off, Myles, the chances of there being a god are equally likely to the chances of there not being a god; god is not on par with the tooth fairy. It's an actual explanation for something of which there is good reason to believe is true.


Dave: this is something I've thought of before; perhaps we are some experiment? Not Earth or Humanity, but the universe as a whole. The universe could be some sort of machine.
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The chances of their being a god are no greater than those in favour of there being a tooth fairy. Why do you think otherwise ?
 
Norsefire said:
What do you mean?
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When Newton discovered the laws of motion and universal gravitation it could have been construed as machine like. An excerpt from wikipedia:

"Although the laws of motion and universal gravitation became Newton's best-known discoveries, he warned against using them to view the universe as a mere machine, as if akin to a great clock. He said, "Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion. God governs all things and knows all that is or can be done.""

It is very likely that the universe was "engineered"
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Of course, God is the best engineer you'll ever meet!

Remember Newton had more brainpower then probably the whole of this community combined.
 
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