Have you ever thought, perhaps we are following a path?

Myles, that's precisely it: you're so certain of science, how do you ever know that there is not a God wanting you to be? So certain in the material world; how do you know God does not want you to be only confined to this world? Believing in and discovering all that He would allow or want you to.

I don't believe that, and it is silly, but that is precisely why atheists wouldn't believe it!
 
Norsefire said:
I'm not suggesting or formally putting this idea forward, but sometimes I think "What if there really is a God, and he is precisely attempting to lead us toward atheism"
What I mean is, sometimes I wonder whether or not God (assuming He exists) specifically wants Humanity to use it's "rationality" and to use the world that He would have created around us, in order to basically confine our understanding only to the material world; to use natural systems, which He would have put in place, to explain the world that we live in, thus fooling us.
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Yes, it's silly. Not only have you named a god and gods gender, but you have speculated on his motives, his methods and the non-existant thing you call "the non-material".
 
KennyJC said:
Yes, it's silly. Not only have you named a god and gods gender, but you have speculated on his motives, his methods and the non-existant thing you call "the non-material".
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You see? This is exactly it; if there is a God, He or It is doing a good job of fooling you.
 
daveW,

Heard of Sir Isaac Newton?
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Well partly. He is well known for his laws of motion of course but that was only a minor part of his life. He spent most of his time concerned with alchemy and wasted most of his life pursuing nonsense.
 
Cris said:
daveW,

Well partly. He is well known for his laws of motion of course but that was only a minor part of his life. He spent most of his time concerned with alchemy and wasted most of his life pursuing nonsense.
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How do you know it's nonsense?
 
Norsefire said:
Myles, that's precisely it: you're so certain of science, how do you ever know that there is not a God wanting you to be? So certain in the material world; how do you know God does not want you to be only confined to this world? Believing in and discovering all that He would allow or want you to.

I don't believe that, and it is silly, but that is precisely why atheists wouldn't believe it!
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More trouble than it's worth to answer you.
 
Cris said:
daveW,

Well partly. He is well known for his laws of motion of course but that was only a minor part of his life. He spent most of his time concerned with alchemy and wasted most of his life pursuing nonsense.
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Your atheistic mind is clouded, you automatically see the worst in people if they have different beliefs to you.
 
Let me re explain:

We Humans can discover plenty about our material world; we know about atoms, mass, energy, gravity, etc, and we can understand how the world works. After doing this, we can at least assume that there is no God that controls the universe.

However, how do you know there isn't a God precisely wanting us to discover these things? It sounds silly, but that's exactly the point: we'd never believe it!
 
davew,

Your atheistic mind is clouded, you automatically see the worst in people if they have different beliefs to you.
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No. It's called having an accurate perspective, i.e. seeing the whole picture and not just what the media portrays or what popular bias makes you feel comfortable.

Remember also that Christianity sees everyone as sinful and essentially bad and hence the justification for a need to be SAVED.
 
Cris said:
davew,

No. It's called having an accurate perspective, i.e. seeing the whole picture and not just what the media portrays or what popular bias makes you feel comfortable.

Remember also that Christianity sees everyone as sinful and essentially bad and hence the justification for a need to be SAVED.
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I know full well about Newton's dabblings in various suspect pastimes.

Do you know of any modern day scientist that has contributed more to science then him?

It is interesting(but predictable) how you can seemingly have so little respect for a genuine genius.

Christianty acknowledges that we as humans are not perfect.
 
Dave,

Newton was wearing his science hat when he contrubuted to science. His work was not informed by religion.

How about Darwin, Einstein and Richard Feynman to mention three ?
 
Myles,

I didn't say he wasn't wearing his science hat, I have already stated that science is not religion.

I just threw out a name that shows at least one theist was not completely dumb.

Those guys you mention weren't dumb either obviously and it is debatable if any were more prolific than Newton.

They are all dead, I was looking for ones that were alive in this atheistic dominated world of science.
 
davewhite04 said:
Myles,

I didn't say he wasn't wearing his science hat, I have already stated that science is not religion.

I just threw out a name that shows at least one theist was not completely dumb.

Those guys you mention weren't dumb either obviously and it is debatable if any were more prolific than Newton.

They are all dead, I was looking for ones that were alive in this atheistic dominated world of science.
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Newton is deader than the ones I mentioned ! How about Crick
 
davewhite04 said:
lol

Crick is nearly alive I suppose :)
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And so is Watson.

In essence, you are barking up the wrong tree. Science has developed so rapidly that most of what is achieved is based on teamwork, Think of developments in medicine, space exploration, It and all the other things you can see going on around you. To suggest that Newton was other than one of a number of eminent scientists is foolish. Read up on the history of science !
 
Myles said:
Nonsense. Show me an atheist who enjoys the same certainty as that of a religionist !
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First of all, I said they have the same ROOTS, not RESULTS – which was in direct response to the statement I was quoting.
Secondly, if you honestly believe there are not just as many atheists that are just as certain in the Big Bang and the laws of Physics as theists are certain about God, you are deluding yourself.
Try looking at the situation honestly, rather than like an apologist attempting to shore up your argument. You are taking normal, fair-minded atheists and comparing them to rabid fundamentalists. This tactic is not surprising, though.

How did religions start?
People recognized their vulnerability to the world around them.
They feared and respected the things they did not understand, which had power over them.
They came up with stories, legends, Gods and other traditions to try and explain those things they did not understand.
As they gained more knowledge of the world around them, the Gods slowly dies off.
They gained scientific knowledge about atmosphere and electricity, and the Gods no longer controlled the lightening.

Both science and religion have the same roots – they come from the same place… Fear of the unknown and human curiosity about the world around us.

Why do you think so many people still believe in Abraham’s God in this day and age of technical advance and scientific knowledge?
You can toss it off as them simply being stupid and superstitious if you wish, but you would be a fool, reveling in your own ignorance.
God still exists, because there is still the unknown – what happens after we die.

Yes, there are MANY Atheists who are just as certain that there is absolutely nothing after death as there are theists who are absolutely sure about their religious beliefs (probably more, because most religious people are not as certain as you like to portray them).

Those who are unsure, though, look for answers because most humans are too scared and too arrogant to say, “I don’t know”.

Myles said:
Life is a process of cointinuing enquiry; the religionist dodges reality and takes comfort in ignorance and superstition.
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That’s a convenient way to look at it.
Especially if you don’t even define “religionist”.
90% of the world consider themselves a member of one religion or another. So are they all deluded morons and you are one of the brilliant 10% who has all the answers?
You seem pretty certain of yourself.
 
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Maybe god sent us here to see if we could figure out how the universe works by ourselves, maybe he is testing everyone to see if we do good for rewards or out of our own hearts, only those who are kind and show courage and bravery expecting no reward or punishment will be praised in heaven, all who do things for selfish greed and follow bad rules for reward get punished or sent back to earth to try again.

maybe maybe maybe anything.

peace.
 
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