Friends getting religious

[S.A.M.]

-=-

Yes, it does. For anyone not blind to it.

Oh look, here is a rats ass. And no, you can't have it. :yawn:

 

[Lori_7]

Lori: What would you consider worse: A parent that shoots his child dead or a parent that ties his children up and tortures them?

I suggest it's the latter. Why? Well, it has to do with prolonged suffering. On what basis could we then suggest that this parent is all loving?

You could say that we all have to die so that we can come to life again somewhere else where there is no suffering - as long as we worship otherwise it's eternal suffering, but that doesn't qualify prolonged mortal suffering as a loving act.

I suppose we could possibly understand it if at least the god followers died in a non-prolonged suffering manner but it doesn't seem to matter how much you worship or love this god.

Where do we draw a line and say: "hang on, this doesn't qualify as 'all loving'"?

But then I go back to my original statement. The minute we recognise it as 'intelligently designed' shouldn't we respect and admire it?

Progeria - I have respect for it, it causes children mass suffering, that's what it was designed to do, hence we must respect and admire it as a glorious work of the Lord. Right?

We can't have sympathy for such people because having sympathy denotes that there's something wrong with the condition. But there can't be anything wrong with it because god intelligently designed it and is a purely moral creature. Hence progeria must be good, so we should respect and admire it and send congratulations cards to all the sufferers. There's also no point trying to find a cure, (which again denotes that it is wrong), because it is a wonderful creation of your lord and master. If he didn't want it to exist, it wouldn't.

Its horrible snakelord, its horrible! I do not want death or suffering. That is what we're here to know. I have cussed god up one side and down the other. I have felt anger and frustration that has scared me. This is the way I pray.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

“ Originally Posted by StrangerInAStrangeLa
There's no meaning in it.
It is much more ugly than beautiful. It is definitely far from perfect.
What is it accomplishing & how can the universe accomplish anything??? ”

Are you kidding?! Science and art and math and love and innocence! The human body alone is a wonder beyond compare. Shame the way we pollute it and abuse it and cage it.

It is far from perfect though. The things we do. But the law...the law is perfect. The problem is transgression. Now we are experiencing, testing, learning. Some of us have and will learn enough to want to change and to realize we can't do it alone.

You list some things you think are beautiful. Can you list some things you think are ugly?
The human body is a wonder compared to what? If I were omnipotent & omniscient, the vessel/vehicle people live in would be like the universe compared to the grain of sand that is the "wondrous" human body. The human body is much too defective to have been created by a benevolent omnipotent omniscient god.
Whose law???
It's a shame what people do with their bodies??? Are they their bodies??? Does a person's body belong to her/him? If not or if 1 can't do what 1 wants with 1's body what frigging good is it to have 1???


“ Originally Posted by StrangerInAStrangeLa
What is the universe accomplishing & how can the universe accomplish anything??? ”


You have yet to explain & support your accusing assumption that I am not looking at the universe properly.

 

[(Q)]

Then shouldn't you be out there doing something more worthwhile? Like finding the cure for cancer? :spank:

Just this morning, I prayed to Allah to cure cancer, but I don't he's listening. Do ya think, maybe, he doesn't understand English?

 

[S.A.M.]

Just this morning, I prayed to Allah to cure cancer, but I don't he's listening. Do ya think, maybe, he doesn't understand English?

Why do you want Allah to cure cancer? Won't it be a major drag on your money if you have to pay welfare for all those people who won't die? You care a lot about money after all.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

Just this morning, I prayed to Allah to cure cancer, but I don't he's listening. Do ya think, maybe, he doesn't understand English?

Why do you want Allah to cure cancer? Won't it be a major drag on your money if you have to pay welfare for all those people who won't die? You care a lot about money after all.

Shaggy staggering strawman.
As per usual.

 

[S.A.M.]

Shaggy staggering strawman.
As per usual.

For someone who claims to be so loving, you have too many self esteem issues, lack of empathy, a vested interest in the opinions of anonymous people and a severe deficiency of a sense of humor

Loosen up kid. :bugeye:

 

[(Q)]

Why do you want Allah to cure cancer?

Because, Allah (standard widget toolkit) created it, so he can cure it, of course.

Won't it be a major drag on your money if you have to pay welfare for all those people who won't die?

If they don't have cancer, they can look after themselves.

You care a lot about money after all.

Don't we all? What can you do without it?

 

[S.A.M.]

Because, Allah (standard widget toolkit) created it, so he can cure it, of course.

Why do YOU want him to cure it. [emphasis on the YOU]

If they don't have cancer, they can look after themselves.

They'll still be around to pick up welfare checks

Don't we all? What can you do without it?

Pay fewer taxes?

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

For someone who claims to be so loving, you have too many self esteem issues, lack of empathy, a vested interest in the opinions of anonymous people and a severe deficiency of a sense of humor

Absurd arrogant accusing assinine assumptions with no support to be found in this forum.

 

[(Q)]

Why do YOU want him to cure it. [emphasis on the YOU]

So that my family and friends don't suffer agonizing pain and then die from it.

They'll still be around to pick up welfare checks

Is there some point to your unfounded assertion?

Pay fewer taxes?

And?

 

[SnakeLord]

For someone who claims to be so loving, you have too many self esteem issues, lack of empathy, a vested interest in the opinions of anonymous people and a severe deficiency of a sense of humor

Now imagine if he claimed to be all-loving while also being responsible for the creation of cancer and other diseases that kill extraordinarily painfully but also - and here's the point - produce prolonged suffering.

Question: Where exactly would you suggest that 'all-loving' actually fits into that?

 

[Pete]

Yeah, but people want to feel like they are being useful. So why not?

Indeed, why not cure cancer? Alleviating suffering would seem to be a logical action for a benevolent omnipotent entity, wouldn't it?

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

-=-

I am compelled to be useful because people have problems I can help with. If people didn't have those problems, I'd be fine with not being useful.

 

[Betrayer0fHope]

It seems kind of hypocritical to me. They live purposely in sin for half their life, then because half of it is over, they decide that they better start believing and becoming faithful in order to go to heaven.

How is that hypocritical at all? They were lying bastards their whole lives.

 

[swarm]

Why do you want Allah to cure cancer?

Have your sock puppet strike him down.

 

[S.A.M.]

Indeed, why not cure cancer? Alleviating suffering would seem to be a logical action for a benevolent omnipotent entity, wouldn't it?

Because Pain is Bad? Suffering is Evil? Me, I think of it as a necessary part of living. Its what tells us that something needs attention. There is a rare genetic disorder in which an individual feels no pain. You're a loving father. Would you wish your child could feel no pain?

 

[swarm]

.

So no god today.

Did you forget to ask him to stop by?

 

[phlogistician]

so, you're a machine? well, that might explain a few things.

How about you simply answer the question? If I make a machine, and I understand each part of it as I make it, and start the machine, and it functions as I expected, do the parts of that machine have 'free will'?

I'm establishing a logical framework here Lori.

i'm not a machine though.

Not in the strict sense, but I'm establishing a logical framework, which is independent of the discrete items.

are you saying that you don't think we have free will?

I don't understand how we can have 'free will'. I understand how we can react based upon past experiences, learned behaviours, physiology, brain chemistry, biochemistry and random factors, but I don't see it as 'free'. It's a bunch of determinable events, and some random stuff. Just because we cannot model it, does not mean it does not follow some strict rules.

You seem to have overlooked how damage to the brain affects our personality, if 'free will' is due to some ethereal soul, as well, ....

i believe there is more to you than just flesh and bone.

Your belief is immaterial. Proof is all I care about. Show me some evidence for a soul that is not subjective, and that current evidence does not contradict.

that is absolutely untrue conjecture, but not presented as conjecture. i am not a liar.

OK, so you really think you are talking to God. But here's an idea for you, being biblical, have you ever spoken to the Devil? Could you tell God from the Devil?

it's my opinion that if you can't see intelligence in the design of the universe then you're not looking.

I worked with a bunch of Astronomers for four years, believe me, we were all definitely looking!

dude...reeeeeel it in. do you make decisions for yourself or not?

Does a piano 'feel' like it's making music, when it's being played? Or let's bring this into the animal kingdom, do worms have free will? Flies? Dogs? Chimpanzees? Or, is it plain human arrogance you are displaying that somehow solely humans are imbued with 'free will'?

you are telling me that you don't feel any control whatsoever for your own destiny?

Feeling it, and having it, are two different things. But again, you accept the subjective as real.

that must make you a real responsible guy.

It's not me that needs fear of a higher power to act sociably and morally, is it?

the outcome is known, but the action is owned.

In your head, do you think that answers the question I asked? I refer you back to my machine analogy.

you're quite wretched you know. because you choose to be.

Oh, 'wretched' because I question that the voices in your head are really putting you in touch with the supreme being?

Other people hear voices too. Peter Sutcliffe, the 'Yorkshire Ripper' said God told him to murder prostitutes. Why is your situation any different? Because you are sure it's really God talking to you? Peter Sutcliffe was sure it was God too. So sure, he murdered 13 women.

 

[phlogistician]

i do think i answered that quite clearly. i gave you a very in-depth answer actually. i have maintained relationships with people, while maintaining a relationship with god, and the two relationships did not conflict in any way.

You gave an overly complicated, rambling, and vague answer to a straighforward question.

and, i currently co-habit with a female.

I didn't need to know the gender, I did specify 'non gender specific', quite clearly in my choice of words.

Does she talk to God also?