hamster-pwn
Free Will
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hamster-pwn
do you understand what the word potential means?
The Hummers potential is being restricted from being expressed by the garage.
How does the garage diminish the Hummers potential?
Answer that question first before I bother posting another response.
[I am not saying I am correct nor am I saying that it is anything other than an opinion but I gotta know whether you really have an issue with comprehension or not as I shall change my approach if necessary to suit your needs - if I have the time to do so]
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Havin posibility.!!!
It doesnt.!!!
I haave the potential to give you som candy... but if im always influenced in such a way that causes me to never give you som candy... me givin you som candy will never hapen... an like "potential" free-will ant the sam thang as free-will... chewin on potential ant the sam thang as eatin candy.!!!
fair enough..what ever!
ability to choose a direction or attitude towards a future
the ability to plan ahead
Originally Posted by thinking
Free-Will
the ability to be beyond survival and instinct
ability to choose ”
“ Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
Please give an example that demonstrates what you'r talkin about.!!! ”
Are you'r sayin that when you have a thout... that thout is free from influence... in other words... thouts are "free-will" because they are uncaused.???
Free-Will
the ability to be beyond survival and instinct
ability to choose ”
“ Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
Please give an example that demonstrates what you'r talkin about.!!! ”
Are you'r sayin that when you have a thout... that thout is free from influence... in other words... thouts are "free-will" because they are uncaused.???
To be clear... i dont know if all thangs are determined dew to cause an effect or not... som argue that quatim mechanics demonstrates that events hapen wit-out cause... but even that argument doesnt esplane how an uncaused event on the quatim level equates to our "will" bein free from influence.!!!
Im not sure what you mean by "instinct an reacton"... will you please give a simple but specific esample that demonstrates plannin ahead which is "thankin beyond instinct an reacton".!!!
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a bear reacts to an object by instinct , prey , deer , moose or the salmon run
the bear reacts to these by instinct
we Humans on the other hand formulate a plan by coordination
oK... so i take it you'r sayin that a bear only operates on instinct an doesnt have thouts... it meerly reacts to stimulis.!!!
It mite be mor clear to me what you mean by that if you woud give a simple but specific example of a plan that a human formulated which wasnt influenced by stimulis.!!!
In other words as I understand, your saying that free will is an aspect of life and that which lives.
As I ponder Free Will my mind immediately moves to thoughts of what is Chaos. The reason being that free will is nothing different according to my perception. If I am free to choose from a billion options at this very moment and you are as well, then at best we can gather probabilities of what those choices may be.
For example, I am much more likely to get something to eat from my fridge then I am to start eating the table, though both options are there. By means of probability we can eliminate or reduce that billion or more to around a few million or even down to a few thousand, depending on how generic we branch certain proceedings. If we even go further, and have rigid established patterns of conduct, we can narrow it down further still.
Since these proceedings can never be 100% deterministic, there is always an element of unpredictability. Because there is unpredictability there is Chaos, as the science and study of Chaos is one centered on such. After scrutinizing the universe from my own limited time frame I learn that our Universe is a Chaotic One. Then it has Free Will. If it has Free Will, then it is Alive. If it is Alive, then it is conscious of this conversation we are having through many various means, including ourselves.
We still don't even know what dreams are, which is why scientist continue to get paid to study them. Though we are heavily conditioned in life, this does not make certain we will remain confined to those conditions. That there is so much rebellion in history shows that not all are willing to agree to the conditions pushed upon them from external sources.
Your comment on the two choices, to live or die, jumps past all the scales of limited free will and its maze of choices. Giving the entire span of one's birth and death, there is no choice. Though this is considering death from a different angle then what we commonly recognize as death, which is even in physics a changing of energy. The death of the entire span in which I refer is True Death and not the illusion of death brought on by limited awareness. Within the illusion you will die countless times, regardless of the choices you make. True Death happens only once, living up to the name and meaning of the word.
We are all born once only, though the veils of the illusion make it seem as if we are born many times and confounds us further by wiping our memories upon death. All that is born once has no choice in the end but to die. Giving that the knowledge, understanding, and awareness has reaches their final stages One becomes a Death Seeker and seeks to Truly Die. A Death Seeker needs only to die at that point in order to succeed and has no fear of Death at all. The irony is that the Death Seeker cannot simply commit suicide nor seek danger without proper reasoning, giving that even reason is guided by emotion.
Free Will is gained at one end of the spectrum and lost at another, it changes upon Dying. That the illusion is a frozen and unchanging nothingness, it is the condition itself that contains all other conditions. As we navigate through the maze we move about from one condition to another, we are free to an extent to choose our next condition. Only One who has access to the entire condition and is a master of the illusion is one who has obtained a Free Will (without limits in the state of the original idea), though this person is Dead to us who "live".
Another angle, how much free will did we have before we were? How much do we have as a newborn baby? As an adult? If we do not rot into non-thinkers how much as an elderly person? That the elderly display signs of losing free will is consistent with the patterns of nature, which display wave after wave when we study its phenomena. The crest of the wave is the peak of our free will within this illusion of one life. Even if a person retains their will until death that high drops back to a low in between phases and crawls back up upon "rebirth".
All waves eventually settle, or in other words, they die. This pattern is consistent with that of Life and Death as it is. Though True Death will come to everyone, it happens by an act of one's free will or choice to Die. Giving that the illusion goes on forever without ending, and that it will hold us as a mother does a child or as a spiderweb does a fly forever and given that there is even the slightest chance, a probability, a crack in the damn (so to say), it cannot be avoided that we will eventually find our minds or wills to seek Death.
Then one is left wondering what happened to the free will? Free Will, like life, neither exists nor does it not exist; it is neither real nor is it unreal; and it is neither the same as life nor is it any different. The contradiction is the complement to those who understand, who are not riddled by the duality of their own minds. We are governed by conditioning, yes, but no one can condition us better then ourselves, which is neither a subjective nor an objective happening, though both are within its occurrence.
Thanks for the inquiry!
Best Regards,
Jozen-Bo
Yes you continue to discuss how bear behavior is bound by stimulas... but agan i say... it mite be mor clear to me how you thank humans differ from that if you woud give a simple but specific example of a plan that a human formulated which wasnt influenced by stimulis.!!!
May I ask how you know that?
I'd also be interested in your comparisons of reactions/actions between what a bear does and what a human does. If a bear is hungry for salmon, he doesn't head up into the high mountains, does he? If a bear is hungry for deer, he doesn't go stand in the river, does he?
Bears put on weight/fat during the late fall in preparation for a long hiberation in the winter. Isn't that planning ahead? How is that different to what humans do in planning?
I don't know where you get off thinking so highly of humans ...when by all accounts and research, humans are just another animal on Earth. Perhaps you're just overly bias?
Baron Max
Originaly posted by clueluss husbund:::
Are you'r sayin that when you have a thout... that thout is free from influence... in other words... thouts are "free-will" because they are uncaused.???
So you do thank you'r thouts have causes.???
Are you'r sayin that when you have a thout... that thout is free from influence... in other words... thouts are "free-will" because they are uncaused.???
So you do thank you'r thouts have causes.???
but free will is the ability to choose between causes...but caused it is....regardless.
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