Feminism and Islam

[WildBlueYonder]

THIS IS ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF WITNESSES NEED IN A TRIAL
The Qur'anic verse known as "verse of indebtedness" in which Allah prescribes writing debt contracts as a precautionary measure is: " O ye who believe! When ye deal with each other, in transactions involving future obligations in a fixed period of time, reduce them to writing.

blah, blah, blah, what a long story to say that some people are more equal than others in islam, that alhah is not a fair judge, that islam follows a human god,named Mohammad, that islam is about lies

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Why did the prophet had so many wives?

you pagans think that Prophet (I SAW LIARS IN HALF)* had many wives for sex or just fir the hell of it. this is eniterly untrue.

you infidels are such liars, you forgot to tell everybody here at Sciforums, that ol' Moh used to boast that he had the "strenght" to plow 30 women a night. I guess the hadiths are lies too? right? tell us the truth, if you can, that the hadiths are either true or false? so, what did saintly ol' Moh do with those women? could it be that he admonished them to fidelity, chastity, modesty? was he naked, were the women naked? just a cordial chat, right? what hadith is that again? could you tell us, so that you can save the time of looking that up? thank you so much

 

[WildBlueYonder]

THIS IS ANSERING YOU QUESTION ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF HUSBAND IN HEAVEN for females

In the very beginning, we would like to cite Ibn Kathir’s comment on the issue of men having Hoor Al-`Een. It reads:“ Aighty Alah tells us that He will provide the residents of Paradise with beautiful wives who have big and lustrous eyes and 'whom no man or Jinn before them has touched' and who are 'Like unto rubies and coral'”.

In fact, Paradise is the abode of the believers in the Hereafter. Allah has prepared for His believing servants, males and females, in Paradise indescribable bliss that which no eye has seen, no ear has heard of and that has never ever crossed the minds of people, to the extent that even the person who has the least blessings in Paradise will think that he is the most blessed one.
All this indicates that in Paradise believing men and women will be showered with blessings; there is no room for discrimination based on gender in Paradise.

“Here Allah mentions the Hoor Al`Een because in most cases men pursue women and not vice versa. As for women, Allah Almighty may marry them to any of the believers in Paradise, if they did not get married during worldly life, or He may compensate them by making them feel content with their position. It is also said that Allah may grant women some kind of beauty with which they will feel that they are better than the Hoor Al-`Een and that they are their mistress, so they will not love anyone other than their own husbands nor will they feel jealous of the Hoor Al-`Een.”

Jesus said that no one can marry in heaven, (they will be sexless like the angels), with glorious spirit bodies, alhah knows nothing, what can a cresent-moon god, tell people about heaven? Nothing, except write satanic verses, o Mohammad, why can't you tell the difference between the jibrel & the saitan?
http://my.homewithgod.com/mygentleshepherd/page15.html

 

[WildBlueYonder]

islam from god or from God? can't be from God, Mohammad didn't know God's name, who is alhah? the cresent-moon god of Mecca

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-10-reasons-islam-not-from-god.htm

 

[Vienna]

i will cruush this entire thread. i will prove Islam gives women equal rights.

Where are you munim_786???

Why haven't you crushed this thread - Or shall I tell you why.

You have been shown the truth of Islam and the disgusting way it degrades and discriminates muslim women.

[deleted]

 

[Bells]

Muslim women have rights, unfortunately the West does not deem it so. In the West, we look at Muslim women in the hijab and see it as a form of oppression. What we fail to recognise is that it is the woman's choice to wear the hijab. The West has been accused (correctly on many occasions) of attempting to enforce their beliefs upon others. We point the finger at others, yet we fail to recognise that women in the West are also not seen to be equal to men. We fail to recognise that historically women under Islam had rights that women in the West could only dream about.

From what I remember, here are some of the rights of women under Islam:

1. The right and duty to acquire education.

2. The right to have her own independent property.

3. The RIGHT to work (either in a job or in her own business) to earn money, which is hers to keep.

4. The right to equal pay.

5. The right to have an opinion and to state it as such. She has a right to argue her point and to be heard.

6. She has the right to vote. And such voting rights were firmly in place when before women in the West even conceived of such a thing.

7. The husband is expected to provide her with what she needs and whatever she may desire. I believe this is an inherent right in the Quran, although I'm not too sure.

8. She has the right to marry who she chooses. She also has the right to refuse any proposal of marriage.

9. She has the right to divorce her husband. If she doesn't like him, she can divorce him. Upon divorce, she has the right to keep her own money and I think she may also have the right to claim more from the husband. The woman has the right to gain custody of the children in divorce, unless she is unable to raise them due to financial hardship, instances of abuse, etc. Very similar to women's rights of custody which exist in the West today.

10. The right to get sexual satisfaction from her husband... now there's one we don't see often in the West

11. The right to re-marry after divorce or after becoming widow.

We in the West are at times so arrogant that we discredit Muslim women of the ability to fight for their own rights. Feminists in the West are accused by their Muslim counterparts of trying to tell them what their rights should be. Isn't it time that we let the Muslim women fight for their own rights? Isn't it time that we stopped trying to cram our beliefs of what rights a woman should have in the throats of others? Who are we in the West to judge others when we ourselves don't have equal rights? Muslim women are more than capable of claiming and fighting for their rights. It is not our place to determine what those rights should be.

 

[Repo Man]

 

[Proud_Muslim]

blah, blah, blah, what a long story to say that some people are more equal than others in islam, that alhah is not a fair judge, that islam follows a human god,named Mohammad, that islam is about lies

Women in Christianity and Islam

What the New Testament has to say:

1 Timothy 2:11-14 "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."

1 Corinthians 14:34 "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

Men can shave the women's heads if women don't cover their heads:

1 Corinthians 11:5-10: "But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels."

1 Corinthians 11:13: "Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God (with her head) uncovered?"

What the Old Testament has to say:

Deuteronomy 22:28-30 "If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives."

One must ask a simple question here, who is really punished, the man who raped the woman or the woman who was raped? What is to prevent someone from finding the best looking woman in town, raping her, telling everyone about it, and then having the courts force her to be his wife for the rest of her life?

We all hear about "date rapes" here in the US and Europe. If the Christian groups from the "Army of God" who blow abortion clinics in the US, or the owners of www.godhatesfags.com ever rule their churches over the state, then we will see things such as men brutally raping the women they sexually desire the most on their dates, then take these women to court and sue them and prove that they raped them. Then marry them by force, and continue raping them for the rest of their natural life.

This might sound harsh and mean to you, but in reality, it is all allowed in the Bible, and this is how it would be if the church from the Fundamentalist Christians rule over the state. In the middle centuries, women in the Christian societies had absolutely no value !!. They were only sex objects controlled and played with by their masters, the men.

Exodus 21:7-8 "And in case a man should sell his daughter as a slave girl, she will not go out in the way that the slave men go out. If she is displeasing in the eyes of her master so that he doesn't designate her as a concubine but causes her to be redeemed, he will not be entitled to sell her to a foreign people in his treacherously dealing with her."

Here in this verse we can see that fathers can easily and freely sell their daughters as slaves to other men. The other men are free to rape the daughters if they wish to do so.

Deuteronomy 25:11-12 "And in case men struggle together (in a fight) with one another, and the wife of the one has come near to deliver her husband out of the striking one (to save her husband), and she has thrust out her hand and grabbed hold of his private (the other man's groin), she must then get both her hands cut off, and the eyes of the men must feel no sorrow."

One has to ask himself a very simple question here: Why should the wife who is trying to save her husband from brutal beating by another man get both her hands cut off? and why should we not have any mercy on her? Does this sound inspired from God to you? Be honest with yourself.

Leviticus 21:9 "And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire."

Why a priests daughter be burnt in fire just because her father is a priest if she decides to act like a whore? Is this fair? Should it make a difference whether or not a girl's father is a priest or not?


Ecclesiastes 25:22 "Of the woman came the beginning of sin, and through her we all die." (from the Catholics Bible) Women in the Bible are considered evil !!!.

Ecclesiasticus 22:3 "....and the birth of ANY daughter is a loss" (From the New Jerusalem Bible. It's a Roman Catholics Bible); Roman Catholics today form more than 75% of the Christians population throughout the world. Why should the Bible give stupid (with all respect to you) generalizing statements like that about ALL women?

PATHETIC !!!

Leviticus 12:2-5, if a woman gives birth to a baby boy, then she becomes unclean for 7 days. But if she gives birth to a baby girl, then she becomes unclean for 14 days. This verse is another proof that women in the Bible are disliked to be born !.

Ecclesiastics 7:26-28 "And I find more bitter than death the woman who is a snare, whose heart is a trap and whose hands are chains. The man who pleases God will escape her, but the sinner she will ensnare....while I was still searching but not finding, I found one upright man among a thousand but not one upright woman among them all". The Bible claims that it is impossible to find a single good woman among a thousand women.

Let us examine the following two verses from the book Leviticus:

Let us look at Leviticus 20:15 "If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he must be put to death, and you must kill the animal."

Let us look at Leviticus 20:16 "If a woman approaches an animal to have sexual relations with it, kill both the woman and the animal. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Notice that in Leviticus 20:15 the man has to be caught having sex with an animal in order for him to be put to death. We have to be sure 100% beyond the shadow of the doubt to kill him.

Notice however in Leviticus 20:16 that if a woman only looks SUSPICIOUS and not necessarily get caught having sex with an animal, she would still be put to death. We do not have to be sure 100% beyond the shadow of the doubt with her in order for us to kill her.

Hmmm, very interesting !!!! Don't Leviticus 20:15 and Leviticus 20:16 prove that the Bible prefers to put women to death whenever an opportunity presents itself?

 

[James R]

Moderator note: Under ordinary circumstances, I would have deleted Proud_Muslim's cut-and-paste regarding the evils of Christianity, which is off-topic. However, in this instance, it is a fair response to the diatribes posted against Islam, so it stays.

 

[Vienna]

Bells & Proud Muslim

Muslim women in the United States and other Western nations often will allow themselves to be used to whitewash Islam's image as it is presented to the public at-large. Typically, these women, living in the United States and other Western nations, operate under the banner of "reaffirming" the rights which women have "traditionally" enjoyed in Islam.

Much is made of the affirmation the right for women to own property and receive inheritance, primarily. Indeed, in the light of the way in which women were treated in pre-Islamic Arabia, the granting of the right to own property and to inherit from a dead relative is a step forward, considering women were denied even these in the pre-Islamic tribal system.

Some Muslim Women they have the same rights and respect as a man, that Islam respects them and allows them the same freedom as men have. Of course, what needs to be tacitly understood is that these women are saying this while they are in the United States, or some other Western nation like Canada or Great Britain. Of course their rights are respected and they are not oppressed! They are living in a society where the sort of behaviour which many Muslim men display towards women in Muslim countries is not generally tolerated.

In the West, both law and popular opinion greatly discourage activities such as wife-beating and marriage to underage girls. Society would frown upon a man who made his wife wear a veil and stay inside the house unless he was with her. It would be neither understood nor accepted that women should have an inferior legal and moral status than men, as is held by a plain reading of the Qur'an and the Hadith.

In this nation, Islam has no choice but to respect the rights and dignity of women, lest it raise the ire of the general populace. However, one wonders what these Muslim women would say or think if they tried to take the same attitude in, say, Pakistan or Iran or Egypt. Clearly, the apologism which is made by Muslim women for Islam on the basis of some supposedly "enlightened" view of women's rights is nothing more than a cloak woven to try and cover the ugly truth about Islam's attitudes toward women.

 

[Vienna]

Muslim women have rights, unfortunately the West does not deem it so. In the West, we look at Muslim women in the hijab and see it as a form of oppression. What we fail to recognise is that it is the woman's choice to wear the hijab. The West has been accused (correctly on many occasions) of attempting to enforce their beliefs upon others. We point the finger at others, yet we fail to recognise that women in the West are also not seen to be equal to men. We fail to recognise that historically women under Islam had rights that women in the West could only dream about.

From what I remember, here are some of the rights of women under Islam:

1. The right and duty to acquire education.

2. The right to have her own independent property.

3. The RIGHT to work (either in a job or in her own business) to earn money, which is hers to keep.

4. The right to equal pay.

5. The right to have an opinion and to state it as such. She has a right to argue her point and to be heard.

6. She has the right to vote. And such voting rights were firmly in place when before women in the West even conceived of such a thing.

7. The husband is expected to provide her with what she needs and whatever she may desire. I believe this is an inherent right in the Quran, although I'm not too sure.

8. She has the right to marry who she chooses. She also has the right to refuse any proposal of marriage.

9. She has the right to divorce her husband. If she doesn't like him, she can divorce him. Upon divorce, she has the right to keep her own money and I think she may also have the right to claim more from the husband. The woman has the right to gain custody of the children in divorce, unless she is unable to raise them due to financial hardship, instances of abuse, etc. Very similar to women's rights of custody which exist in the West today.

10. The right to get sexual satisfaction from her husband... now there's one we don't see often in the West

11. The right to re-marry after divorce or after becoming widow.

We in the West are at times so arrogant that we discredit Muslim women of the ability to fight for their own rights. Feminists in the West are accused by their Muslim counterparts of trying to tell them what their rights should be. Isn't it time that we let the Muslim women fight for their own rights? Isn't it time that we stopped trying to cram our beliefs of what rights a woman should have in the throats of others? Who are we in the West to judge others when we ourselves don't have equal rights? Muslim women are more than capable of claiming and fighting for their rights. It is not our place to determine what those rights should be.

REALLY.....

Then explain this.....

Women´s Rights Activist Receives Threats for Slamming Islam

A Somali woman living in the Netherlands has been put under police protection, after allegedly receiving death threats from extremist Muslims. On Dutch television earlier this week, Ayaan Hirsi Ali criticised fundamentalist Islamic communities for their treatment of women.

Other Dutch Muslims who have been campaigning for women's rights say they too have been threatened, and that the Muslim community here in the Netherlands is increasingly divided

 

[daisy250]

islam from god or from God? can't be from God, Mohammad didn't know God's name, who is alhah? the cresent-moon god of Mecca

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-10-reasons-islam-not-from-god.htm

Next time, make more sense in what you write, Muhammed (Peace be upon him) did infact know Allah, and all about him. We pray to one God, and he is not the moon crescent god, or wutever you're saying. Get a grip. Allah is my Lord, your Lord, and the Lord of the world and everything else, whether you like it or not. By the way, we do not worship Muhammed in anyway, he is the last prophet , just like all the other prophets before him, from Noah, Abraham , Jacob, Moases, and Jesus, and all the others. Lemme ask you something... when you go and pray, who do you pray to, God, Jesus or the holy spirit?? I mean, do you go thruough a whole confusing moment, like who's gonna answer your prayers and who's not. Haha, we on the other hand only pray to The One, and only Lord, which He is called Allah in Arabic. Any Christian Arab will call the Lord 'Allah' {even Jew Arabs} Surprising, ay?? So next time, learn your christian history before you speak. {But that is if there is one, it has been put through many changes, its been poked at by all of your kings and people, its been duplicated, and God knows what.... }
So do me a favour and SHUT UP..

 

[Vienna]

ALLAH IS THE MOON CRESCENT GOD

Many Christians accept the Muslim claim that they both worship the same God. They claim that they call him Allah, while Christians call him God. It is not unusual to hear Christian leaders make such statements. Bible societies have even gone so far as to use the name Allah in the Bibles they produce for Arab Christians.

The problem with this is two-fold. First, history and archeology show clearly that Allah was worshipped as a pagan moon god long before Mohammed came on the scene. Robert Morey, author of The Islamic Invasion, explains:

"Islam's origins have been traced back by scholars to the ancient fertility religion of the worship of the moon god which was always the dominant religion of Arabia. The moon god was worshipped by praying toward Mecca several times a day, making an annual pilgrimage to the Kabah which was a temple of the moon god, running around the Kabah seven times, caressing an idol of a black stone set in the wall of the Kabah, running between two hills, making animal sacrifices, gathering on Fridays for prayers, giving alms to the poor, etc. These were pagan rites practiced by the Arabs long before Muhammad was born."

"What religion today practices the pagan rites of the moon god? Islam! This explains why the crescent moon is the symbol of Islam. It is placed on top of mosques and minarets and displayed on hats, flags, rugs, amulets and even jewelry. Every time you see the Muslim symbol of a crescent moon, you are seeing the ancient symbol of the moon god."

Second, if you read the Quran's description of Allah, and read the Bible's description of God, it becomes obvious you are reading about two different persons. Allah orders his followers to kill those who deny Islam, while God instructs Christians to love their enemies. Allah had no son while God sent His Son to die for sinful men. Allah is "unknowable" while God seeks a personal relationship with His creation, man.

The spirit behind Islam is an entirely different spirit... a spirit that denies the deity of Jesus Christ. Any Christian who accepts the notion that Allah is God creates an impossible situation.

Since the Quran contains the only revelation about Allah, they will be forced to look there as their authority. The Quran specifically denies the deity of Christ!

All Christian witness ends right there.

 

[Bells]

REALLY.....

Then explain this.....

Women´s Rights Activist Receives Threats for Slamming Islam

A Somali woman living in the Netherlands has been put under police protection, after allegedly receiving death threats from extremist Muslims. On Dutch television earlier this week, Ayaan Hirsi Ali criticised fundamentalist Islamic communities for their treatment of women.

Other Dutch Muslims who have been campaigning for women's rights say they too have been threatened, and that the Muslim community here in the Netherlands is increasingly divided

You still don't get it do you? It is up to the Muslim women to decide on their rights. It is up to them to seek help if they so choose. If these women feel that their rights are being eroded then they are more than capable of getting help, as your examples above prove. It is not for us to impose our rights on them. Are you aware that women in Iran are fighting for their rights in their own special way? It's like an underground movement. But they resent Western women telling them what rights they're supposed to be fighting for. Women in the West also face abuse from their families and communities for speaking out against abuse, just because Muslim women speak out does not make them different. They have their own way of doing things and maybe it's time that the rest of the world backed off and minded its own business and let them get on with fighting for their rights. I may not agree with a lot of the treatment Muslim receive, but I recognise that the women facing the abuse are more than capable of fighting to implement the change they desire, and they are fighting. So instead of dictating to them, we should just support them and allow them to decide what it is they want.

Women in the West also receive threats from their community, work etc for speaking out. Hell, look at sexual harrassment in the work place as an example. A woman there will usually face threats from the organisation for speaking out. Laws are now in place to protect women's rights in the work place but the abuse still continues.

What I'm trying to say is that it is not up to us to tell them what rights they should have. It is up to them to decide and it is up to them to decide how they're going to fight for it and when.

 

[Vienna]

=
What I'm trying to say is that it is not up to us to tell them what rights they should have. It is up to them to decide and it is up to them to decide how they're going to fight for it and when.

Wrong my dear. If any organisation in this world imposes such degrading and disgusting things upon women it is up to mankind to stop it, not the persecuted women.

You are fine living in Aussie, but I guess you could hardly say the same for women living in Egypt, for example.

 

[Bells]

Wrong my dear. If any organisation in this world imposes such degrading and disgusting things upon women it is up to mankind to stop it, not the persecuted women.

You are fine living in Aussie, but I guess you could hardly say the same for women living in Egypt, for example.

Mmm hmmm... and do you know what the Egyptian women would say to me if I went there and tried to tell them what their rights should be? I can think of a few words but they could end up being deleted. If a woman chooses to be treated that way, do you have a right to go in and tell her no? Women in Islam are well aware of their rights Vienna and they are fighting for them. So let me ask you something, what do you think their rights should be? Will you point out to them that they have a right not to be beaten by their husbands? They'll answer that they are aware of those rights and why haven't you in the West freed your women from abusive husbands. You could point out to them that they have a right to not fear from honour killings. But then they could also point out to you that the women in the West also have a right to not be killed by jealous or angry rejected husbands or ex boyfriends, yet women are still being murdered on a daily basis by rejected partners. You could tell them that they have the right to dress as they please. And their reply could very well be that women in the West also have that right, so why are some these Western women employed in places which tells them that they must wear dresses or skirts (I had a law lecturer who refused to be sworn in as a solicitor because she'd have to wear a skirt in court for the ceremony... she thought that she should be allowed to dress as she chose). These are just some examples Vienna.

I fully understand where you're coming from. I find the plight of some Muslim women to be frustrating and those around me tell me that I tend to become impossible to live with when I read up on the plight of some of these women. But the fact of the matter is that we in the West have no right to tell these women what their rights are or should be. I feel rage each time I hear of an honour killing. I feel absolute disgust when I hear of what a woman has to go through to prove a rape. But I'm also aware that women in the West also have to degrade themselves to prove a rape. Women in the West who are raped must face a physical examination. If the male claims that it was consentual and there are no witnesses, the woman must then prove that it was not. Her most private parts must be probed and photographed for evidence. If there aren't enough indications (such as bruises and markings), then she goes through hell trying to get the police to prosecute the matter, in most cases the case never gets to court and the rapist is never bought to justice. If it gets to court, she must then face the prospect that those photographs will be bandied around in court. We in the West also impose degrading rules on women. But in the West it is more subtle in most cases. And the women in the West are fighting for their rights. How do you think these women would feel if Muslim feminists started telling them what their rights should be and how to fight for them? The cultural differences are vast. But we cannot escape the fact that it is up to each individual woman to choose her battle and choose how she will fight it. If these women ask for help in their fight, then we in the West should do all that we can to help them. But until they ask or give an indication that they want help, we should not be forcing our views and our opinions on how they are or should be fighting the organisation.

 

[Vienna]

,
But the fact of the matter is that we in the West have no right to tell these women what their rights are or should be.

Bells, I strongly believe that those women living out there don't know any different and its just a way of life to them. They don't actually know that they could be free. I could be wrong but I doubt it.

 

[Bells]

Bells, I strongly believe that those women living out there don't know any different and its just a way of life to them. They don't actually know that they could be free. I could be wrong but I doubt it.

I agree with you totally. There are women all over the world who have no idea of their rights. Hell some women in the West still think that they don't have a right to say no to their husbands. But, in a nutshell, what I'm trying to say is that we can't impose upon other cultures to tell them our definition of freedom and use that as a standard. Because our definition and understanding of freedom is not perfect either.

Western feminists are quite rightly told by Muslim feminists to mind their own business and to fight their own battles. We can't impose our beliefs upon others in that fashion. We fail to recognise that the way Muslim women fight the system is different to the way the women in the West fights it. The manner in which western feminists demand that Muslim women fight the oppressors results in the western feminists acting like oppressors themselves. We become what we're trying to tell these muslim women to fight against. Muslim women are fighting against the regime, but if we start ordering them around in how they must beat the system they currently face, we become another regime for them to fight against, because we have taken away their right to choose what they wish to fight for.

 

[Vienna]

I agree with you totally. There are women all over the world who have no idea of their rights. Hell some women in the West still think that they don't have a right to say no to their husbands. But, in a nutshell, what I'm trying to say is that we can't impose upon other cultures to tell them our definition of freedom and use that as a standard. Because our definition and understanding of freedom is not perfect either.

Western feminists are quite rightly told by Muslim feminists to mind their own business and to fight their own battles. We can't impose our beliefs upon others in that fashion. We fail to recognise that the way Muslim women fight the system is different to the way the women in the West fights it. The manner in which western feminists demand that Muslim women fight the oppressors results in the western feminists acting like oppressors themselves. We become what we're trying to tell these muslim women to fight against. Muslim women are fighting against the regime, but if we start ordering them around in how they must beat the system they currently face, we become another regime for them to fight against, because we have taken away their right to choose what they wish to fight for.

I understand what you are saying, and it is wrong to "impose" anything on anyone.

What I am trying to say is this -

We should show them that there is an alternative to their way of life, and that it is available, and it is there for the taking - "If they want it".

If they refuse it, then fair enough.

But if they want an alternative way of life it should be made available for them, and no interference from anyone would be tolerated.

That is my opinion.

 

[daisy250]

ALLAH IS THE MOON CRESCENT GOD

Many Christians accept the Muslim claim that they both worship the same God. They claim that they call him Allah, while Christians call him God. It is not unusual to hear Christian leaders make such statements. Bible societies have even gone so far as to use the name Allah in the Bibles they produce for Arab Christians.

The problem with this is two-fold. First, history and archeology show clearly that Allah was worshipped as a pagan moon god long before Mohammed came on the scene. Robert Morey, author of The Islamic Invasion, explains:

"Islam's origins have been traced back by scholars to the ancient fertility religion of the worship of the moon god which was always the dominant religion of Arabia. The moon god was worshipped by praying toward Mecca several times a day, making an annual pilgrimage to the Kabah which was a temple of the moon god, running around the Kabah seven times, caressing an idol of a black stone set in the wall of the Kabah, running between two hills, making animal sacrifices, gathering on Fridays for prayers, giving alms to the poor, etc. These were pagan rites practiced by the Arabs long before Muhammad was born."

"What religion today practices the pagan rites of the moon god? Islam! This explains why the crescent moon is the symbol of Islam. It is placed on top of mosques and minarets and displayed on hats, flags, rugs, amulets and even jewelry. Every time you see the Muslim symbol of a crescent moon, you are seeing the ancient symbol of the moon god."

Second, if you read the Quran's description of Allah, and read the Bible's description of God, it becomes obvious you are reading about two different persons. Allah orders his followers to kill those who deny Islam, while God instructs Christians to love their enemies. Allah had no son while God sent His Son to die for sinful men. Allah is "unknowable" while God seeks a personal relationship with His creation, man.

The spirit behind Islam is an entirely different spirit... a spirit that denies the deity of Jesus Christ. Any Christian who accepts the notion that Allah is God creates an impossible situation.

Since the Quran contains the only revelation about Allah, they will be forced to look there as their authority. The Quran specifically denies the deity of Christ!

All Christian witness ends right there.

THE QURAN DENIED THE DEITY OF CHRIST BECAUSE HE IS NOT GOD, HE IS SIMPLY A PROPHET.. THATS WHAT YOU CHRISTIANS IGNORE AND MISUNDERSTAND...

JESUS IS A PROPHET, HE IS NOT GOD, I'M SORRY!! JUST BECAUSE HE WAS BORN MIRACULOUSY, THAT DOES NOT MAKE HIM GOD...... THAT MEANS ADAM WOULD BE CONSIDERED MORE THAN GOD TOO, RIGHT?? BECAUSE HE HAD NO MOTHER AND FATHER... DOESN'T THIS OCCUR TO YOU??? ITS SIMPLE LOGIC... COLOR]