its a cultural thing in alot of places where islam is the predominate religion but it is not an islamic belief. to refer to fgm as a islamic thing would be like saying well i can't even think of anything to compare it to because no one else equates a certain cultural belief to the domnate religion.
Female Genital Mutilation: An Islamic Practice
- Thread starter Grantywanty
- Start date
Grantywanty
Registered Senior Member
A somali in Norway has called for a fatwah against FGM. Since a rather large % of the Muslim population commits this crime against women, and some claim that it is not Islamic, then why the hell haven't the Imams made stringent and menacing bans on the practice. To cut up the genitals of Muslim women would seem to be a major crime. I mean imagine if this was being done to Muslim women by 'Westerners'.
Why the silence?
Imams freak out when cartoons are published, but are silent here.
Why the silence?
Imams freak out when cartoons are published, but are silent here.
W
WildBlueYonder
Guest
ahhh, but they interpret it, otherwise, why would R. Khomeini have issued that fatwah against S. Rushdie?
DiamondHearts
Registered Senior Member
This practice is forbidden in Islam, and I'm sure if you call all the major Islamic organizations in America (such as CAIR, MAS, ICNA, etc), you will find none of them agree with this practice as Islam clearly prohibits tampering with the human body, unless for medical reasons.
Now if anyone is willing to perpetuate this falsehood, please provide a citation from Islamic sources such as the Hadith books.
Now if anyone is willing to perpetuate this falsehood, please provide a citation from Islamic sources such as the Hadith books.
Grantywanty
Registered Senior Member
Given that, for example, over 90% of the women in Egypt have undergone this forbidden practice why is there not a storm of protest. You yourself have worded the debate about girls wearing veils in schools in terms of the rights of the girls. There is tremendous debate with Western societies from Muslims about these girls' rights.
You would think that a similar effort would be made to protect girls' rights to have clitorises.
Even if you think there is no connection between Islam and FGM there is vastly more incidence in Islamic societies and families than, say, Jewish or Christian countries (I am aware there are exceptions to the latter). You would think if Muslims were concerned about the welfare of their daughters there would be VASTLY MORE OUTRAGE about such a violent intrusion in the lives of their Muslim daughters than the right to wear a veil.
And I am not trying to belittle this latter right.
However as a father of a girl if I had to choose between my daughters mode of dress and having her clitoris removed, the choice would be clear. And while I might get very angry if someone denied my family's right to religious expression that anger is nothing in comparison with the rage I would feel if someone cut off her clitoris.
You don't have to reveal this to me, but take a moment and see how an outsider would view all the rage aimed at the veil issue adn the relative silence and inneffectual efforts in relation to FGM and you might begin to understand why non-muslims think you don't care about women in the same way you do about men.
The fact that both FGM and wearing veils is an effort to mute, hide, remove the sexuality of women is not coincidental. Both practices stress the need to control women when it comes to sex rather than controlling men, men of course being the main perpetrators when it comes to sexual crimes and transgressions.
Grantywanty
Registered Senior Member
but they can and do organize tremendous outrage about certain acts, texts, etc. They have been very silent about all these Muslim (and other) girls who have their clitorises removed but vocal and outraged when it comes to the right to wear veils in schools and certain images of Mohammad.
You can judge a person by what outrages them and what they say is naughty but don't really give a shit about.
Grantywanty
Registered Senior Member
Now you suggest that I should tell Muslims how they should live. That will go over well.
Admit that the efforts of religious leaders in Islam have been pathetic in relation to this issue. I think it is because they really don't care, but that doesn't really matter. All that matters is that they start acting according to what is humane and what you think is or should be Islamic practice.
Of course, they are imams, they make noise when its about the Prophet because that is religion, I doubt that outside the affected areas, they even know about FGM, its a "female" matter, not something they would concern themselves with. Thats like saying priests should comment on breast implants causing cancer.
DiamondHearts
Registered Senior Member
Perhaps the problem is that most religious scholars outside of the African nations where this goes on do not have to contend with this. I believe the problem lies with lack of information, as this is the first place I have heard of this and I'm a student of Islamic theology. Therefore, the fact that I inform you that this act is prohibited in Islam carries atleast some weight.
Are you sure? Maybe your studies are just very focused. I know thats your story and your sticking to it.
http://www.womenaid.org/press/info/fgm/fgm-egypt.htm
Either way, what possible purpose can this serve?
Grantywanty
Registered Senior Member
This practice occurs in the East also. It is not restricted to Africa.
It would carry weight if it was enforced and if it mattered to the religious leaders.
Christian religious leaders have similar problems. They focus heartily on small portions of the OT that justify their hatred of Gays or, for a long time, gave men the right to dominate women, but ignore all the injunctions and death punishable crimes that would make them uncomfortable to notice. Like Mrs. Reagan, having married a second time (to Ronnie) should have been stoned to death. Let alone the way jesus' rules are ignored whenever Christians feel inclined to violence.
So I know this kind of thing is not simply an Islamic problem. And I have tended to hate when people make Islam out to be a terrible thing - because those who do this tend to be ignorant of 1) muslim people 2) what the west is doing to Islamic people and the world. I do know muslims personally, many in fact and I am aware of number 2, all too well. nevertheless, I just became fed up with the hypocrisy and sexism in Islam. it began to feel like a lie to not call them on their shit, also.
Not really, I was in Saudi Arabia and I never heard of FGM there, but it may be practised, however if it is a "family issue" what are the chances of anyone else outside the community of women knowing about it? Men hardly concern themselves with what they see as womens issues anyway.
Seems you answered your own question.
Oh S.A.M, i think you were the one who posted about Egypt...no go ahead and delete your post.
I never was under the impression that it was not Islamic but it is practiced in Muslim areas. But like i said i don't think it is due to the religion.
You can easily prove this by posting pics
...
Dont make me laugh.
What, you accompany your girlfriend for her PAP tests? Do breast exams for cancer? Keep a check on her menstrual cycle regularity and PMS? Make sure she is stocked in tampons, vaginal douche and panty liners?
DiamondHearts
Registered Senior Member
Perhaps we can discuss this 'hypocrisy' and 'sexism' in Islam.
As an honest and diligent student of Islamic theology, I will attempt to answer any questions you may have from an Islamic perspective.
Mostly, I hope we can have an honest and kind-hearted debate concerning this matter, as this is regrettably rare on sciforums.
Educated people or religious scholars probably have to be careful with what they say to people who believe in FGM. They think it is the act of purifying a women and since it has been done for so many generations it is hard to break traditions. Traditions are always done within a family, so that would be even harder to convince someone that fgm is wrong. I think very slowly the dangers and uselessness of fgm is taught by western doctors who choose to work in the middle east.