Female Genital Mutilation: An Islamic Practice

[(Q)]

Power struggle is always a political strategy, whether it is at the national, community or family level.

Its about creating an environment which is of benefit chiefly to those who have the ability/means to control others. Education reduces that prospect, which is why propaganda is such a powerful tool; it appeals to the emotions rather than the intellect and since losses are more powerful influences on decision making than gains, appeals to losses are more powerful in propaganda.

So, the creation of an oppressive religion solidifies the power struggle in favor of the male, allowing them to oppress the female and deny them education?

 

[S.A.M.]

So, the creation of an oppressive religion solidifies the power struggle in favor of the male, allowing them to oppress the female and deny them education?

In case you hadn't read the thread, FGM is both perpetrated and sustained by women.

 

[(Q)]

In case you hadn't read the thread, FGM is both perpetrated and sustained by women.

The same women we've already agreed do not have an education and are oppressed by fear.

 

[S.A.M.]

The same women we've already agreed do not have an education and are oppressed by fear.

Yup and could belong, for instance to the Pitta-Patta tribe in Australia, where FGM is also practised.

 

[(Q)]

Yup and could belong, for instance to the Pitta-Patta tribe in Australia, where FGM is also practised.

Is that also a political strategy?

 

[S.A.M.]

Is that also a political strategy?

You're just trolling aren't you *sigh*

But I'm going to pretend you're seriously interested.

What do you think this is, if not power play?

*warning graphic description*

This form of mutilation is practised specifically by the Pitta-Patta Aborigines from Australia: When a girl reaches puberty, the whole tribe - both sexes - assembles. The operator, an elderly man, enlarges the vaginal orifice by tearing it downward with three fingers bound with opposum string. In other districts, the perineum is split with a stone knife. This is usually followed by compulsory sexual intercourse with a number of young men. Introcision is also practised in Peru, in particular among the Conibos, a division of the Pano Indians in the North-East: as soon as a girl reaches maturity, she is intoxicated and subjected to mutilation in front of her community. The operation is performed by an elderly woman, using a bamboo knife. She cuts around the hymen from the vaginal entrance and severs the hymen from the labia, at the same time exposing the clitoris. Medicinal herbs are applied followed by the insertion into the vagina of a slightly moistened penis-shaped object made of clay.

 

[(Q)]

You're just trolling aren't you *sigh*

But I'm going to pretend you're seriously interested.

Uh, for the record, you've been pointing your responses towards me as opposed to the argument. Don't toss out the 'trolling' fallacy.

 

[S.A.M.]

Uh, for the record, you've been pointing your responses towards me as opposed to the argument. Don't toss out the 'trolling' fallacy.

Sorry, but I am at least addressing the issue.:bugeye:

 

[(Q)]

Now then, back to your silly claims - you should probably read this before making more of a fool of yourself:

http://www.adelaide.edu.au/apsa/docs_papers/Others/Pringle.pdf

 

[S.A.M.]

Now then, back to your silly claims - you should probably read this before making more of a fool of yourself:

http://www.adelaide.edu.au/apsa/docs_papers/Others/Pringle.pdf

Thank you, that was a surprise.

I got it from here so I assumed it was a valid source.

 

[Grantywanty]

let's look at Iran, for example.

In public:
A woman walks down the street in western garb and make up.
A man says that he had his daughter's clitoris removed.

Which one of these people will run into problems with authority figures or groups of men driving around town in their car?

 

[S.A.M.]

let's look at Iran, for example.

In public:
A woman walks down the street in western garb and make up.
A man says that he had his daughter's clitoris removed.

Which one of these people will run into problems with authority figures or groups of men driving around town in their car?

Not a good example; see Iranian women before 1952 and after 1975 for why culture has become repressive there.

http://www.angelfire.com/home/iran/

 

[Grantywanty]

Not a good example; see Iranian women before 1952 and after 1975 for why culture has become repressive there.

http://www.angelfire.com/home/iran/

Look, I hate what the Shah did and the Western involvement there. But the causes of the dictatorship do not change the lived experience of women under the Islamic regime there. And it is clear that the woman walking down the street...etc. would be harrassed at a minimum and most likely forced physically to cover herself. Resistance could result in loss of life. (I know this both through speaking to refugees and from a documentary on the subject where this process was repeatedly shown to occur).

Maybe, maybe, someone might mutter something against the man who had a cliterodectomy done. But NOTHING official, physical or even inconveniet would happen to him.

This tells me something about he mentality of Islamic men (both those who have the power and a significant portion of the population since this is required for enforcement) in relation to women.

 

[Grantywanty]

Oh and by the way. A lot of people disliked the Shah NOT because he was a brutal dictator, but because he was liberalizing social customs. The hatred of women runs deep there.

 

[S.A.M.]

Oh and by the way. A lot of people disliked the Shah NOT because he was a brutal dictator, but because he was liberalizing social customs. The hatred of women runs deep there.

Let me guess, thats what the Western media tells you; does it explain why he selectively tortured and killed all the moderates and demolished all liberal groups?

edit: leave it, lets stick to FGM in this thread

 

[John99]

I guess she finds it much worse to stun gun crack heads.

 

[Baron Max]

No one is interfering with anyone Baron, the education is not specifically for FGM, but to offer choices for better living;....

That's interference!!

And I'll ask you again, more pointedly, ....you talk of education, but would you allow Baron Max to do the teaching, or do you want only YOUR teaching or what YOU want taught??? Education, Sam, is not so simple a word or concept, ya' know??

...if they so desire they can maintain their cultural practices, but at least the fact that there are other choices available should be known.

And that's interference ...no matter how good your intentions!

I think satellite television has done more for education than anything else, you can literally visit a country without having to leave your home.

No, Sam, ...think about it. Via tv, you only get to see that parts of a country that the show's producers want you to see. I saw a film on India a few years ago ...and they showed everything nice, and none of the gazillion poverty-stricken, starving masses of India .....none of it!!!

So what did I learn?? I learned that all Indians are wealthy, well-dressed, live in big, nice homes, ...all are smart, with college degrees, and they all love all other Indians regardless of religion or position in life, and there's no conflicts in India, no hunger, no pain, no disease, no death, no corruption, ........ It was, to see that show, a paradise on Earth. How'd they do, Sam?

Baron Max

 

[Grantywanty]

Let me guess, thats what the Western media tells you; does it explain why he selectively tortured and killed all the moderates and demolished all liberal groups?

edit: leave it, lets stick to FGM in this thread

The Western media wants people to believe he was simply a decent dictator, cough, leader. But there was liberalization of social customs under his reign and that caused a lot of the oppositional support. Politically he was a moderately evil character (as dicatators go) and certainly did the kinds of things you are talking about.

 

[Grantywanty]

Let me guess, thats what the Western media tells you; does it explain why he selectively tortured and killed all the moderates and demolished all liberal groups?

edit: leave it, lets stick to FGM in this thread

And by the way, my main point is unanswered. Whatever the reasons for his being in power adn the nastiness he perpetrated does not detract from the experience of women in that country.

The way women are treated there and the priority Muslim leaders place on complaining about certain kinds of bad behavior is clear. Women who seem like independent agents (especially with any hint, hint of sexuality invovled) are vastly more of a threat to society than ANY VIOLENCE AT ALL DIRECTED AT WOMEN: honor killing, intra-marriage rape, 'consenting' sex between men in their 40s (or 70s for that matter) and what we would call underage girls, FGM, battering of women, death for female adultery/chastizement for male and so on.

When a person screams and complains and when they 'take something in stride' or 'silently understand the roots of the violence' etc, etc says a lot about the real values of a country and a person.

 

[Grantywanty]

In case you hadn't read the thread, FGM is both perpetrated and sustained by women.

This is like saying that the house slaves perpetuated slavery over the field slaves.