Female Genital Mutilation: An Islamic Practice

Actually, it was mentioned that there were Jews, Christians, Animists and Muslims, with Muslims making up the vast majority. But if you have a more accurate data set that can be cited, please do. I've no problem with revising my assertions.

Incidentally, I'd be interested in knowing just how many "atheists" there are that practice FGM and what cultures they belong to.
 
superluminal said:
I'd love to see some documantation that specifically relates to the "atheist" practice of FGM. I never realized that atheism was a "culture".
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Not atheism, FGM. It is believed to have originated in Egypt as part of the dualistic male-female belief and apparently women who are uncircumcised are considered masculine in Egyptian culture. Over there, its not even viewed as a problem, with over 97% of the women being circumcised.


There are no figures available for other groups because only Muslims are important. The tragedy is that this kind of approach has backfired and Third World and African women are actually fighting to "own" FGM, which they see as an attack on their culture and religion by Western imperialists.

Alison Slack has written some good books on the topic.
 
S.A.M. said:
Not atheism, FGM. It is believed to have originated in Egypt as part of the dualistic male-female belief and apparently women who are uncircumcised are considered masculine in Egyptian culture. Over there, its not even viewed as a problem, with over 97% of the women being circumcised.


There are no figures available for other groups because only Muslims are important. The tragedy is that this kind of approach has backfired and Third World and African women are actually fighting to "own" FGM, which they see as an attack on their culture and religion by Western imperialists.

Alison Slack has written some good books on the topic.
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Wow. I did not know this.
 
superluminal said:
Probably.

So, we've concluded that FGM is not just an islamic practice, right?
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Thats not enough; the obstacles in its resolution are diverse and complicated; e.g. girls who are uncircumcised are considered unmarriageable, so parents who fear for their children's future prospects will not be convinced by opinion or facts; similarly it has cultural implications where not following the group ethos makes you the outsider; in many societies, even the extent of FGM is unknown since it is a "family issue" frequently known only to mothers, i.e. men may not even be a part of the equation. The most important realisation is that it is women who drive and sustain the practice, and given that they come from paternalistic societies, may be unwilling to give up this control.
 
S.A.M. said:
Thats not enough; the obstacles in its resolution are diverse and complicated; e.g. girls who are uncircumcised are considered unmarriageable, so parents who fear for their children's future prospects will not be convinced by opinion or facts; similarly it has cultural implications where not following the group ethos makes you the outsider; in many societies, even the extent of FGM is unknown since it is a "family issue" frequently known only to mothers, i.e. men may not even be a part of the equation. The most important realisation is that it is women who drive and sustain the practice, and given that they come from paternalistic societies, may be unwilling to give up this control.
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So, as usual, there is no conclusion. Only talk and a continuation of a tradition. So what's new?
 
superluminal said:
So, as usual, there is no conclusion. Only talk and a continuation of a tradition. So what's new?
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There is a conclusion; the practice is seen less in the educated; education of women is the key. We need more aggressive investment and intervention in womens education.
 
S.A.M. said:
There is a conclusion; the practice is seen less in the educated; education of women is the key. We need more aggressive investment and intervention in womens education.
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And how does one do that? In the cultures where this is prevalent?
 
S.A.M. said:
By education. Empowering women gives them the power of choice.

This is an arena where the US can play a significant and meaningful role.
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You mean when we're not busy pursuing a meaningless crusade against imaginary enemies in a desert somewhere?

Right.
 
superluminal said:
You mean when we're not busy pursuing a meaningless crusade against imaginary enemies in a desert somewhere?

Right.
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I'd rather they educate women. Like Fraggle I believe women's education is the key to a progressive society; they tend to think socially more than men, who generally pursue individualistic goals.
 
S.A.M. said:
I'd rather they educate women. Like Fraggle I believe women's education is the key to a progressive society; they tend to think socially more than men, who generally pursue individualistic goals.
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Most likely. There clearly could be a better mix of the male/female dynamic in society as a whole.
 
S.A.M. said:
I'd rather they educate women. Like Fraggle I believe women's education is the key to a progressive society; they tend to think socially more than men, who generally pursue individualistic goals.
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I admire these views and share them, however its interesting you maintain your beliefs in a religion that is historically one of the most oppressive of women. I'm confused, advocating women's rights while still following a religion that continues to oppress women, even in western societies in the 21st century?

Do you believe you can choose your own religious beliefs?
 
S.A.M. said:
There is a conclusion; the practice is seen less in the educated; education of women is the key. We need more aggressive investment and intervention in womens education.
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So "we" need to interfere more with other cultures and make them stop using practices that "we" find objectionable?

Who's "we", Sam? And I thought one of your main objections to USA is ....oooohhhh, interference in the policies of other nations? And here, you're condoning that very same practice? Hmm?

Baron Max
 
Huwy said:
I admire these views and share them, however its interesting you maintain your beliefs in a religion that is historically one of the most oppressive of women. I'm confused, advocating women's rights while still following a religion that continues to oppress women, even in western societies in the 21st century?

Do you believe you can choose your own religious beliefs?
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I choose to educate myself in my religion; that tells me that womens rights were advocated 1400 years ago in ways that many women in the West today could only dream of. Coming from a majority non-Muslim country with many of the same problems, I can tell how difficult it is to throw off the shackles of culture over religious teachings.
 
Baron Max said:
So "we" need to interfere more with other cultures and make them stop using practices that "we" find objectionable?

Who's "we", Sam? And I thought one of your main objections to USA is ....oooohhhh, interference in the policies of other nations? And here, you're condoning that very same practice? Hmm?

Baron Max
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That is exactly what I am not advocating, Baron, after all there are women who inflate their breasts and inject collagen and the like into their bodies to make themselves more attractive even in the West.

If you read closely, I indicated that education gives women empowerment and the luxury of choice. :)
 
What i don't get is that if Islam is seen as so oppressing to women, how 2 presidents/leaders of countries with Major Muslim populations are women ?
Bangladesh and Indonesia have both had Women leaders in their past.
But the U.S has not had a Single Woman President.
 
S.A.M. said:
That is exactly what I am not advocating, Baron,...
If you read closely, I indicated that education gives women empowerment and the luxury of choice.
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So if that particular culture wants to keep women subservient and uneducated and their pussy cut out, then you're perfectly okay with it? If so, shouldn't you be arguing FOR the practice rather than against it? ...arguing FOR the right of that culture to do as they wish? ...arguing AGAINST any kind of interference?

And yet you're not? Curiouser, and curiouser.

Baron Max
 
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