extraordinary IQ and ability

[birch]

No he didn't: the exact wording was



And neither did he state that they're erroneous.


Quite, tell us about dimwitted...


In other words it tests what it claims to test.

the fact is iq tests are associated with assumed connotations of a person's abilities that are unwarranted.

people can argue that it tests only rote logic but many people assume it is the end all and be all of intelligence.

 

[birch]

That's a whole other subject: basically he'd previously made the claim that the test "was too narrow": and then he comes back and states it's not designed to test other things anyway...

But yeah, "practical" intelligence isn't what I'd say it actually tests: in fact the only guy who scored higher than me on the tests we took at college (engineering) was forever at a loss as to which end of a spanner (wrench) to use...

I find it amusing that you are being contrary over a nonissue when you are basically agreeing with another poster of the same.

Of course iq tests practical intelligence to some degree. It starts out basic and moves into more complex questions. the fact that you confused that someone else was confused which wrench to use is idiotic. someone who knows which wrench to use still has to have the ability for simple differentiation (which is different in this set). if your college buddy didn't know which wrench to use is probably because he had no experience in that area because it also requires memorization and knowledge beforehand. duh! a mechanic isn't born knowing how to fix a car, they learn it.

i stated it doesn't test creativity or even the desire or ability to think outside the box. iq tests have to be measured and are quantifiable in the concrete even if some questions are abstract/complicated. it does not ask for one to compose a moving piece of music( assuming the knowledge of notes is understood) or write a poem. some people would not have the ability to do that even though they could score high on an iq test.

and i do think creativity is definitely intelligence especially if applied to an objective and it is successful. and of course one with a high iq can be creative just as the opposite.

 

[wynn]

I've posted this earlier, but the link didn't come out as I hoped, so here it is again.


What is the connection between people who have high IQs or who are very talented or creative and depression or other mental disorders?

There are first-hand accounts of people with above-average and high IQ and the problems they have faced in life, possibly related to that IQ.

Anxiety, depression, OCD, social phobias come up in many.

 

[Dywyddyr]

the fact is iq tests are associated with assumed connotations of a person's abilities that are unwarranted.

Really?
You have studies and data to support that contention?

I find it amusing that you are being contrary over a nonissue when you are basically agreeing with another poster of the same.

Correction: you saw fit to raise strawmen, I knocked them down.

the fact that you confused that someone else was confused which wrench to use is idiotic. someone who knows which wrench to use still has to have the ability for simple differentiation (which is different in this set). if your college buddy didn't know which wrench to use is probably because he had no experience in that area because it also requires memorization and knowledge beforehand. duh! a mechanic isn't born knowing how to fix a car, they learn it.

Considering that he and I had exactly the same training (having done the same courses over three years) would indicate to me that he'd had the same experience as I did.

 

[Nasor]

you said high iq was synonymous with success

No, I didn't. I said it was correlated. Work on your reading comprehension.

i never said that iq tests are totally erroneous which you repeatedly are dimwitted to not notice.

And I never claimed you said that. Again, work on your reading comprehension. You did, however, post a quote that began with "IQ is garbage." That's what I was responding to.

 

[DRZion]

I've posted this earlier, but the link didn't come out as I hoped, so here it is again.


What is the connection between people who have high IQs or who are very talented or creative and depression or other mental disorders?

There are first-hand accounts of people with above-average and high IQ and the problems they have faced in life, possibly related to that IQ.

Anxiety, depression, OCD, social phobias come up in many.

I like the link. I suffer three of the four, but I've managed to whittle it down to two mostly. Anxiety and social phobias. I think that average people don't have anything to protect themselves from their innate phobias and so they deal with them earlier - while intelligent people always have their intelligence to shield themselves from others. :shrug:

from the link-

Also, people suffering from narcissistic disorders tend to exaggerate their intelligence.

This is also true in my case I think.. not something I am proud of and I apologize for some of the idiocy I post sometimes.

also from the link

It seems to me that superior creativity is really nothing more than a life preserver a drowning person builds and throws to himself. Sometimes this preserver is of such quality and innovation that the person reaches the shore and people look at it and say "Wow, look what you created!" when really it was an act of desperation that had little to do with the item itself.

Also something i agree with, but what have I to show for people to say "Wow, look what you created!" . . . and thats my narcissism again.

 

[wynn]

I like the link.

I have actually felt quite comforted to find that link. I can relate to so much of what people told there.

I think that average people don't have anything to protect themselves from their innate phobias and so they deal with them earlier - while intelligent people always have their intelligence to shield themselves from others.

Intelligence as a means to put off urgent matters?

I agree only partly, intellectualizing can be a stalling tactic.

But I think that a "faster brain" makes one keep more considerations present in one's mind than an "average brain". This way, one often sees that there indeed are problems with "the way life is usually lived", problems that should not be simply glossed over.

Such as when shopping, considering that so much garbage is produced by buying convenience foods, and that one's enjoyment of that food does not outweigh the pollution caused by it.

Of course, when one considers in this way, there comes the urge to change one's lifestyle, to change whom one hangs out with and so on - and this is the really difficult part.
How to go through with such changes without appearing like a freak, without losing all one's friends and family, one's job and so on.

 

[kriminal99]

Basically IQ makes you respond faster to questions that require a little processing. Being able to answer a math problem a few milliseconds faster than someone else doesn't seem like a big deal. But apparently it controls how much information you can extract from your environment as we are constantly bombarded with a ton of information that could be used in deduction as well.

Some people with high IQ get into a habit of deducing the nature of everything around them, creating formal models of it all, etc. Their understanding of the world can reach heights far greater than everyone else. Some other people with high IQs just seem to tell lots of jokes, and know how to manipulate people.

 

[Mr MacGillivray]

Extreme High IQ equals mental handicap. That's because the reference for our society is average IQ.

 

[John99]

Some other people with high IQs just seem to tell lots of jokes, and know how to manipulate people.

Not really. These things can be very deceiving. HELL they're manipulating people then they are lying about they IQ. Its all Fng BS.

 

[kriminal99]

Extreme High IQ equals mental handicap. That's because the reference for our society is average IQ.

Yeah, but those people who actually use their intelligence to understand their surroundings are capable of exponentially more than average people. If average people like living safe cushy lives they would do well to respect intelligence.

Intelligence tends to cause friction with average people because they are direct disproof of the idea that all men are created equal. When you are a genius, just being yourself and living your everyday life causes people to get angry at you.

When you ask a question in class that seems like common sense to you, and the teacher is stumped, gets mad, straw mans your question, tries to sabotage your grade etc.

 

[Mr MacGillivray]

People with extreme high IQ can't use their intelligence for something they can't understand.

 

[francois]

Extreme High IQ equals mental handicap. That's because the reference for our society is average IQ.

You're saying Marilyn vos Savant is mentally handicapped?

As far as I can see, she's a normal person, except extremely intelligent. It's a common misconception that people who are extremely bright are eccentric or handicapped. This might be because of the attention that idiot savants receive. They're extremely intelligent in some ways, but debilitated in most. The "extremely gifted, but unstable" idea has stickiness is the minds of many. And it gets over applied. As far as I know, it's completely fallacious.

 

[visceral_instinct]

Yeah, but those people who actually use their intelligence to understand their surroundings are capable of exponentially more than average people. If average people like living safe cushy lives they would do well to respect intelligence.

Intelligence tends to cause friction with average people because they are direct disproof of the idea that all men are created equal. When you are a genius, just being yourself and living your everyday life causes people to get angry at you.

When you ask a question in class that seems like common sense to you, and the teacher is stumped, gets mad, straw mans your question, tries to sabotage your grade etc.

Yup. I totally understand.

And I'm not even that smart.

 

[francois]

Yeah, but those people who actually use their intelligence to understand their surroundings are capable of exponentially more than average people. If average people like living safe cushy lives they would do well to respect intelligence.

Intelligence tends to cause friction with average people because they are direct disproof of the idea that all men are created equal. When you are a genius, just being yourself and living your everyday life causes people to get angry at you.

When you ask a question in class that seems like common sense to you, and the teacher is stumped, gets mad, straw mans your question, tries to sabotage your grade etc.

I've know several people who are very smart, but I've only ever met one person who could be considered a true genius--and he is, by definition--his IQ was tested at 144. That's sort of on the genius threshold. He's an IQ on paper, like are many, but unlike many, he's able to translate that into real results. The dude is freakin' dangerous--not malicious, but competent on a whole other level. Seeing him work, and absorb information incredibly quickly, and just get difficult tasks done in a furious rate--it's just bizarre to know that people like that actually exist.

It's funny to think about the potential difference of mental capabilities between people versus the difference potential difference in physical strength. The difference in potential mental capability between two given people is EXTREMELY high. In general, the difference isn't great, but the potential for intelligence in people is just mind boggling.

 

[kmguru]

You're saying Marilyn vos Savant is mentally handicapped?

Perhaps not. But on the other hand, if she can not utilize that intelligence to find cure for AIDS or develop fusion power or whatever that is a game changer for mankind, - it is a handicap.

It is like having a 500 HP car with no fuel or a super computer with no data to crunch. If that is not handicap what is?

Just a thought....

 

[francois]

Perhaps not. But on the other hand, if she can not utilize that intelligence to find cure for AIDS or develop fusion power or whatever that is a game changer for mankind, - it is a handicap.

It is like having a 500 HP car with no fuel or a super computer with no data to crunch. If that is not handicap what is?

Just a thought....

I don't understand your analogy. I can see how a car with 500 hp might be analogous to having an extremely high IQ, but what about the other part? She doesn't have fuel or data to crunch or something? My only point is she's not a retard. She's a normal person--only that she is incredibly intelligent. She can get on with her life like anyone else.

 

[kmguru]

I don't understand your analogy. I can see how a car with 500 hp might be analogous to having an extremely high IQ, but what about the other part? She doesn't have fuel or data to crunch or something? My only point is she's not a retard. She's a normal person--only that she is incredibly intelligent. She can get on with her life like anyone else.

The point is the value of "incredibly intelligent'. If you can not utilize such capacity, what good it is? And hence my analogy.

Yes - She can get on with her life like anyone else. Meaning, she is as normal as anybody else with a 500 HP engine under the hood. That is a handicap (the disadvantage or advantage itself ).

The interesting part is that we the society did not tie her hand and say, you now must run with this handicap. What we did is that we said you are a super person and we expected her to do super stuff. It is our fault to bestow the special qualities like a Greek Goddess. Not hers.

Still did not get it...I give up....

 

[francois]

We must be using language in a different way from one another.

Suppose we have two people. One is a genius, the other is normal. The genius is lazy and uninspired and therefore leads a pretty insignificant existence. The normal person does the same thing because he's normal. The way I'm interpreting it, even though they live the same lives, the genius is handicapped and the normal person is just normal? I just don't see how that's a helpful way to look at it, unless one of them had some kind of debilitating thing, like sex addiction.

Looking back, I do understand your point, but I think it's incorrect to call it a handicap.

 

[wynn]

It's a handicap in the sense that it is rather rare that a well-above-average IQ person would know how to use this IQ without it becoming a hindrance.
High IQ is a potential liability.

I think that what normally happens is this:

Intelligence tends to cause friction with average people because they are direct disproof of the idea that all men are created equal. When you are a genius, just being yourself and living your everyday life causes people to get angry at you.

When you ask a question in class that seems like common sense to you, and the teacher is stumped, gets mad, straw mans your question, tries to sabotage your grade etc.

- and this is not easy to deal with.

The above-average IQ person must have parents, other relatives, teachers and others who will not hold it against them to be above-average and who will not otherwise sabotage them, but instead provide with good life skills.
Without that supportive social network, I think the above-average IQ person is likely going to have many problems in life.