Evidence for the existence of Gautama Buddha

[S.A.M.]

Buddha is okay for those people who want freedom from desire. I just happen not to be one of them. I just find it odd that I have yet to meet a Buddhist who is. Have you seen the Dalai Lama's robe? Or even those of the lesser monks?

Don't see any Nirvana there.

 

[Michael]

I didn't know Buddhism was all about alleviating desire? I thought for most people it was all about believing what their parents taught them to believe and institutionalizing the typical moral code and finally, not having to worry about dieing and being gone forever. Just believe.... now, we all know you can't have all of this without pretty coats and common group rituals and sacred spots, temples, etc... It takes a HELL of a lot pretty coats, poems, candles, etc... to get people to not worry about their fear of dieing and to do the right thing.

 

[S.A.M.]

I really don't care one way or another, its just an observation. For me, being religious is about sincerity. It doesn't matter how you interpret it. I like a religion that does not require me to rise above my needs.

 

[Michael]

I doubt most Buddhists view life any differently than most Muslims or Scientologists. Love, hate, work, eat, laugh, cry, study, hope... and believe in an afterlife.

I have stated time and again, what sets beliefs apart are how the fundamentalists view said belief. Monotheism is inherently intolerant of other people's beliefs and therefor it is pure evil It's really that simple.

 

[S.A.M.]

I'm only talking about myself here. I could not be a sincere Buddhist or Christian, the one is escapism and the other is absurd to me. You might have a different view, but I could not care less what it is. If it works for you, thats fine with me. I don't see any clash with classical Hinduism or Judaism, but Islam is just so free of frills.

 

[John99]

that is what everyone think. their beliefs are NOT absurd and they fight about that.,

 

[John99]

You might have a different view, but I could not care less what it is. If it works for you, thats fine with me.

See?

 

[Michael]

Think of it like this: Given that most people are the same whether Scientology or Muslims or Buddhists, then which of these belief systems is the better? Obviously the most tolerant is the better. The rest is pretty much the same.


Lastly, YOU don't want to rise above your needs because you're the typical theists. As a Buddhist you'd be the same person you are now. Only a small minority of people feel the need to dedicate their lives to religion (or World of War Craft for that matter). For these people it's important that they do so in a religion that is tolerant because the rest of society looks at these people for moral guidence. It's better to hagve one of these people say something like" link armor class 5 with magic spell 7 combined with... oh wait, I mean, Yes you should be tolerant of other people's beliefs. Rather than "Kill the Polytheistic Infidels for desecrating Allah;'s spacial space-rock". See the difference?

 

[S.A.M.]

Given that there are over 300 flavors in ice cream, which one is better?

The one I like. Its that simple.

 

[Michael]

Maybe this is asking for too much objectivity from a monotheist?

Christianity is more of a joke than Islam... Pfffff THAT'S a good one SAM

 

[Michael]

If you were taught your whole life that dog is disgusting to eat, you'd probably find it disgusting to eat if you ate it.

I knew a Muslim who thought that idea of eating port was gross. He refused to try it. One day he was accidentally eating pork at Chinese yum cha. I figured I wouldn't tell him different because he had already eaten through about half the bowl before I noticed what he was eating (and he should have been sharing) so he loved pork!

I was monotheist so I think I can see both sides of this coin. IOW, try dog SAM, you might like it.

 

[iceaura]

but Islam is just so free of frills.

From an outsider's pov, Islam is one of the most meddling, frill-bedecked religions out there. Everything from what goes into the sausage to which hand to reach with, mandated pilgrimages to community-wide calls to prayer several times a day to special clothing.

If you want sincerity of belief and no frills, and a Deity of course, one of the Christian sects should do you better. That's what they're all about. Try the Quakers.

 

[S.A.M.]

No not a joke, its absurd, why should someone else be accountable for my sins? I should be accountable for every atom of good and bad I do.

I like Islam because of its utter simplicity.

Me, I did this!


"Then shall anyone who has done an atom's weight of good, see it!"[99:7]

"And anyone who has done an atom's weight of evil, shall see it." [99:8]

I like teh notion of all of the earth being one people, with no chosen ones. And all you have to do is be good.

"Mankind was one single nation, and God sent Messengers with glad tidings and warnings; and with them He sent the Book in truth, to judge between people in matters wherein they differed; but the People of the Book, after the clear Signs came to them, did not differ among themselves, except through selfish contumacy." [2:213]



"O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other. Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you." [49:13]


And what is righteousness?

Leaving aside the matters of faith, righteousness is so elegantly simple for the Muslim

‘It is not righteousness that you turn your faces towards the East and the West, but righteousness is this that one should believe ....and give away wealth out of love for Him to the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and the beggars and for (the emancipation of) the captives, and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate; and the performers of their promise when they make a promise, and the patient in distress and affliction and in time of conflicts - these are they who are true (to themselves) and these are they who guard (against evil)’[ 2:177]


As for the destruction of churches or synangogues or any places of worship:

"Permission [to fight] is granted to those who are being persecuted, since injustice has befallen them, and God is certainly able to support them.

They were evicted from their homes unjustly, for no reason other than saying, "Our Lord is God." If it were not for God's supporting of some people against others, monasteries, churches, synagogues, and masjids - where the name of God is commemorated frequently - would have been destroyed. Absolutely, God supports those who support Him. God is Powerful, Almighty". (22:39-40)


So there is no permission really to break anyone's idols or houses of worship. Remember the first Ummah included the Jews and pagans.

Its a religion I can identify with.

From an outsider's pov, Islam is one of the most meddling, frill-bedecked religions out there. Everything from what goes into the sausage to which hand to reach with, mandated pilgrimages to community-wide calls to prayer several times a day to special clothing.

There are as many Islams as there are Muslims. There are recommendations for everything, but thats just because people love routine and its amusing when you travel halfway across the world and find people who live just like you do. Its also a way of removing barriers without any effort at all.

 

[John99]

See? This is why there cannot be teaching about religion in school.

 

[S.A.M.]

Not at all, until I learned about Hinduism, I had no idea how much I agreed with it. Hinduism is another religion [as a set of philosophies] that is very conducive to empiricism and universal peace. I could be a sincere monotheist Hindu, though I would dispense with the idols.

Brahman (bráhman-, nominative bráhma ब्रह्म) is a concept of Hinduism. Brahman is the unchanging, infinite, immanent, and transcendent reality which is the Divine Ground of all matter, energy, time, space, being, and everything beyond in this Universe.

I could very well be describing the God of Islam.

 

[iceaura]

No not a joke, its absurd, why should someone else be accountable for my sins? I should be accountable for every atom of good and bad I do.

Try the Quakers, SAM. As you pointed out:

Not at all, until I learned about Hinduism, I had no idea how much I agreed with it.

If you really like sincerity, simplicity, no-frills, a company of believers that emphasize compassion, and a sophisticated deity, that is.

Meanwhile, apparently the common practice of Islam requires some modification and editing to fit your beliefs, vis a vis:

So there is no permission really to break anyone's idols or houses of worship. Remember the first Ummah included the Jews and pagans.

Its a religion I can identify with.

A similar pick and choose approach is even easier with a sect like the Quakers. And you won't have to try to convince people that the myriad nitpicking and pervasive ritualistic requirements are "no frills", the associations with perverse violence are not representative, and the remarkably anti-intellectual and superstitious rhetoric does not interfere with clear apperceptions.

 

[S.A.M.]

only in existing physical reality, not just religious scripture.

Not at all. I find it in existing physical reality too. We just come from a culture where we conceal our bodies and speak our minds rather than the other way around, is all.

I like the Islamic culture, I like that you need not subjugate your desire or your mind, that you can spend on yourself, that there is no call for celibacy or being frugal, that you can spend what you want, all of it if you wish, there is no concept of being wasteful, everything is meant to be enjoyed and appreciated, that you can marry then change your mind, divorce and marry again. I don't think that is Quaker philosophy, though.

 

[iceaura]

We just come from a culture where we conceal our bodies and speak our minds rather than the other way around, is all.

Tell that to Salmon Rushdie.

I like the Islamic culture, I like that you need not subjugate your desire or your mind,

No submission to Allah? No subjugation of the desire or the mind - just the body and the behavior? That looks like the classic self-deception of the subjugated.

that you can spend on yourself, that there is no call for celibacy or being frugal, that you can spend what you want, all of it if you wish, there is no concept of being wasteful, everything is meant to be enjoyed and appreciated, that you can marry then change your mind, divorce and marry again. I don't think that is Quaker philosophy, though.

Oh, I don't know. Check 'em out.

 

[John99]

Not at all. I find it in existing physical reality too. We just come from a culture where we conceal our bodies and speak our minds rather than the other way around, is all.

I like the Islamic culture, I like that you need not subjugate your desire or your mind, that you can spend on yourself, that there is no call for celibacy or being frugal, that you can spend what you want, all of it if you wish, there is no concept of being wasteful, everything is meant to be enjoyed and appreciated, that you can marry then change your mind, divorce and marry again. I don't think that is Quaker philosophy, though.

so you are a Westerner?

 

[S.A.M.]

Tell that to Salmon Rushdie.

At least he's not in a body bag in Gitmo eh? There are all kinds of "freedom" and being offensive tends to rub people wrong.