Evidence for the existence of Gautama Buddha

[S.A.M.]

not a religion whose effects on human society seem like something most outsiders want to avoid if possible.

As compared to the effects of say, western colonisation, structural adjustment policies and "free trade"? Much of the Islamophobia is media generated by the above, for strategic and power politics. I've lived in the Middle East and they are happier people than Americans. Except when the Americans are killing them for <insert latest democratic efforts>

How is what happened to the Bangladeshis and the Timorese, for example, or India itself, not weighed in the balance of Islam? Why is incapability weighed as virtue?

You mean why is the effect of divide and rule not considered in the case of Bangaldesh [British] and Timor [Dutch]? Considering they have been Muslims for 1000 years before they adopted western values of nationalism?

 

[Michael]

If much of the Islamophobia is media generated why is it that CHinese also think the same way? As well as Japanese? Oh, I don:t know, ya think maybe it could be, oohhh hmmmm maybe Muslim suicide bombers screeming God is Great just before wiring up and blowing an elementary school of dirt poor innocent children or bombing a hotel or cutting the heads off monks or blowing up island resorts.. pluuuleeeease!!! call a spade a spade. your religion brings out the worse in the worse kind of people. that:s a fact.

And BACK to the western colonization... yeah, and Japan was nuked, yet they seem to be doing fine. Amercia was a colony, we:re doing fine. SIngapore was too, they`re doing fine. So was Korea and Hong Kong they doing fine. Oh, but Iran wasn`t and it`s going to the shits because of their theocracy. Hmmmmm... who to blame who to blame... oh I know.... anythign other than the obvious.


It seems to me that most of the people here suggest it matters not one bit if there were a Buddha or ten or none. That:s the real difference. No magical books or all seeing flying spaghetti gods, just HUMAN thoughtfulness and insight.

 

[S.A.M.]

Japan was nuked, yet they seem to be doing fine. Amercia was a colony, we:re doing fine. SIngapore was too, they`re doing fine. So was Korea and Hong Kong they doing fine

Talk about hubris. The western ideal is to kill and replace anyone who does not follow their ideology. From the beginning of western thought, they have replaced native populations or degraded and abolished them, diminishing their culture and history through revisionism. Japan, Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong, native America, where are they? They don't exist anymore. Of course they are doing "fine", do they have a choice? Its why they are diminished as a culture, as a people, its why they will slowly disappear and be replaced by more concrete identities. Check out their suicide and birth rates.

The ones who are not "doing fine" happen to be the ones who won't give in to the bullying. Its why even imaginary WMDs evoke large scale massacres and destruction. But they are not going away anywhere anytime soon. Demography is destiny.

 

[iceaura]

You mean why is the effect of divide and rule not considered

It is. By many. Especially Western atheistic rationalists, btw.

Now back to the question.

From the beginning of western thought, they have replaced native populations or degraded and abolished them, diminishing their culture and history through revisionism. Japan, Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong, native America, where are they? They don't exist anymore. Of course they are doing "fine", do they have a choice? Its why they are diminished as a culture, as a people, its why they will slowly disappear and be replaced by more concrete identities. Check out their suicide and birth rates.

You might want to check on whether the Japanese, Koreans, etc, consider themselves currently degraded, diminished, and replaced.

Except for the birth rate (which tracks degradation of women, ignorance, and poverty, much more closely than it tracks Western ideology) the same description holds for the Islamic conquests.

 

[S.A.M.]

No they consider themselves westernised. Except the Koreans who hate the Japanese and Americans with equal passion I think, but still want to be westernised. But they all recognise that they are a decaying society. They write about it often enough.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/03/12/national/national_20002541.php

http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displaystory.cfm?story_id=11294805

http://english.ohmynews.com/articleview/article_view.asp?at_code=390145

 

[Michael]

Talk about hubris. The western ideal is to kill and replace anyone who does not follow their ideology.

Oh, this from the chick who called responded to the murder of Arab polytheists with this: But they were polytheists..


The true is killing people and taking their shit is a HUMAN ideal not a Western one. Native Americans murdered one another and took their stuff, Indians did the same, Japanese had a whole class of killer called Samurai they lived and died thinking about how best to murder, Arab Muslims ran holy crusades that would make the pathetic little attempts by the Europeans to reclaim their lost lands look pathetic, just as the Persians who lost their entire culture, Mongolians murdered their way across the world.

It`s hard to stop humans killing one another. Just ask Baron, he seems to think its so fundamental as to be human!

As this is a fundamental trait it needs to be tamed, Which is why it`s important to teach people that murdering other people and stealing their stuff is wrong. Oh, it`s going to happen, but we have to try. IN the USA the establisihment has been able to use a combination of fear and a misplaced beleif in `freedom` to convince people to kill and steal. BUT, we are able to evolve as a society past this. Islam on the other hand can not. Which is the real reason why the ME is in mess. Making murder religiously permisable Islam was able ti kill its way across the middle east, but, now that very same ideology has made Islam the laughing stock religion of the world. Islam is now synonymous with terror JUST as the USA is now synonymous war mongering the difference is WE can CHANGE.


YOu SAM are at pains to denigrate prossibly one of the kindest most influentual Indians ever born. A person who should be in your mind a national Indian Hero. The reaon why? Islam. You`re so intollerant you can`t even see it when it`s as close to home as this. THAT should tell you something.

M

 

[S.A.M.]

Let me know when the Americans "evolve"

one of the kindest most influentual Indians ever bor

Pfffffffffft! Based on what? The fact he left his wife and kid to "find himself"?

Or that no one knows if he even existed? Or that he inspired the Lamaistic slave system of Tibet, the Burmese junta or the racism of the Sinhalese?

He was born in Nepal btw, allegedly of course, since it took at least 400 years before any part of his story was written down.

 

[Michael]

Chinese history shows CHinese began the process of Westernization well before colonization, it started with trading ships bringing advanced technologies and new ideas to the Chinese. No one is stupid, if they seem something better then they will of course want to get their hands on it. Its also been shown that during the Dynasties when the Chinese stopped trade they had the lowest GDP growth. Trade means CHange. That`s not Westernization it just happens that the West was such more advanced compared with anyone else, like the Muslims and Indians. SO of course they as traders where much more influential. It was the same during the Greeks (Hellenization) and the Romans (Romanization).

 

[S.A.M.]

I know of no period in history before westernisation when trade meant stealing resources.

Arab and Persian trade for several thousand years, both before and after Islam, benefited both parties. Not one at the expense of the other.

 

[Michael]

Let me know when the Americans "evolve"

One word: Obama
*smack!*

Pfffffffffft! Based on what? The fact he left his wife and kid to "find himself"?

Or that no one knows if he even existed? Or that he inspired the Lamaistic slave system of Tibet, the Burmese junta or the racism of the Sinhalese?

He was born in Nepal btw, allegedly of course, since it took at least 400 years before any part of his story was written down.

Much like Mohammad and Jesus he`s a literary character. So what?

As for leaving his wife? Haaaa! Maybe she sucked in bed? Maybe he was gay? Maybe he never had a wife? That`s funny you`d pick such a thing while at the same time suggest he`s a fiction.

He developed a way of thinjking that has evolved into a philosophy synonymous peace. Islam on the other hand has been synonymous with terror since the first polytheist Arabs and monotheist Jews were cut down 1600 years ago and it`s evolved into a religion synonymous in every culture on the planet. Talk to a CHinese, a Native Americans, A native Brazillian, a Fijian, etc.... I suppose you wire an elementary school full of 7 to 10 year olds and murder half of them, that`ll happen, I suppose you lock a urning bschool of 12 year old girls in KSA and that`ll happen, I suppose you cut off the heads of monks and that`ll happen, etc... ... ... WHy do you suppose Turkish and Arab leaders tried to secularize and modernize their countries at the turn of the century - they knew exactly what would happen if they didn:t and it:s happening.

 

[S.A.M.]

"He" didn't develop anything. Since no one knows how many people contributed to the Pali scriptures and who actually wrote what. The core is unknown and has many contradictory qualities in its progression.

I think the single most important influential act in Buddhism was the skinning alive of the Banpos. Don't know any other spiritual leader who inspired that.

 

[Michael]

I know of no period in history before westernisation when trade meant stealing resources.

HAhahahahahaaaa.... Haaaaa Hahahahahahaaa..... yeah here have some more :m:

Khalid ibn al-Walid
Do you not see the wealth of the land of the Persians? Do you not remember the poverty of the land of the Arabs? Do you not see how the crops in this land cover the earth? If the holy war were not enjoined by Allah, we should still come and conquer this rich land and exchange the hunger of our deserts for the abundant eating which is now ours
Annals of the Early Caliphate (p. 75)

"He" didn't develop anything.

That doesn`t stop you from venerating Mo Mo now does it?

Like I said, the Buddha character should in reality be a national hero of yours but you have been so brainwashed you instead denegrate perhaps India`s greatest export.

M


Note: I`ll let you in on a little secret. There are no Gods or Xenu`s, so the entire story of Mo Mo is either a lie or he was a lier. Take your pick. As for Buddha, as his is just a philosophy, it really doesn`t matter if there was a single Buddha or not. Either way, as a literary creation, you should (being Indian) take a sense of pride in Buddha, as the philosophy is synonymous with bringing peace to people. Instead you spend your time denegrating Indian`s most famous philospher. As I said, that should tell you something about your self. But it does`t. It`s like explaining complex math to a drunk, explaining logic to a theist.

 

[S.A.M.]

Yeah, the Persians became so very poor and the Arabs so rich. In fact, the Persians live on little reservations now while the Arabs rule them. You never get it, do you?

Like I said, the Buddha character should in reality be a national hero of yours but you have been so brainwashed you instead denegrate perhaps India`s greatest export.

You know nothing about India, do you? What a very silly person you are for having opinions on people you know nothing about.

 

[Michael]

It`s like watching cultureal immolation.

Pointing out how wrong it was for the Americans to ban Shinto in Japan while defending the actions of Muslims in Arabia, Persia and Indian is interesting if anything. I`m 100% sure that the people who made up MoMo would love to know an Indian would be denigrating Buddha 1600 later. Now THAT says something.

 

[Michael]

Yeah, the Persians became so very poor and the Arabs so rich. In fact, the Persians live on little reservations now while the Arabs rule them. You never get it, do you?

Oh, yes, and because the Indians are in charge of India, their colonization by England was wonderful. Yup, bend yourself into a pretzel SAM.


Here let me make your argument for you: me like Islam, Buddha not Islam so me no like. him bad jerk off who I wish never lived.

 

[S.A.M.]

The Indians did become poor, Michael. Very very poor. Millions starved to death. We were niggers. See the difference?

 

[Michael]

You don`t think there were Persians who lost everything? Persians who watched their daughtered be raped while their villiages were burned to the ground. Pull your head our SAM. Many Byzantine cities returned to subsitance farmering following the Islamic crusades. Oh wait, I forgot, when Muslim wage war they handed our candies and lollies. Yeah, go read soem more Harry Potter or the Qur`an or whatever.

Tell it to the thousands of Zorostrians who fled to ... guess where - India.


Please SAM, go back to denegrating the most famouse Indian Philosopher that has ever lived, you`re better at that.

M

 

[S.A.M.]

Uh, you watch too much television. Do you even know how war was conducted in the Middle East? Its described in detail in Persian history. Get yourself a reality check sometime.

Btw, Buddha is pretty insignificant in India, he's not the greatest [maybe living, maybe fictitious] indian philosopher, we only cover him in history. Not even sure if there are any real Indian Buddhists now, outside the Tibetans. Buddhism left India long ago.

Bet you couldn't tell who the philosopher is that most Indians look up to.

 

[iceaura]

And we're discussing how oppression is established and internalised

We have some examples of internalization - the establishment of a counter-factual or partial worldview conducive to the support of a larger political system.

I'm sure they are, but I prefer to eat my food sans cooked worms. Besides, its the most unhealthy meat there is, being very high in sodium and cholesterol. I like beef but avoid it as well and eat only fresh fish

Pork is not higher in cholesterol or sodium than other land animal meats, and all meats - especially fresh fish, which is often very high in sodium as well - often contain worms, cooked or uncooked.

You have an internalized viewpoint on pork, and it actually interferes with your perception of physical reality.

Some of them may not have been, but 30 million Indians starved to feed their army over 100 years is policy.

British policies starved millions of Indians, but they did not starve 30 million people to feed their army - it wasn't that big an army. Again - - -

You think 1.5 billion people choosing to practice Islam

Most Muslims no more chose their religion than their language. Again - -

Arab and Persian trade for several thousand years, both before and after Islam, benefited both parties. Not one at the expense of the other.

Both colonized and conquered where they could, traded where assault did not pay or where wisdom intervened. Like other people of the time. Incapability is not virtue. Again - -

I think the single most important influential act in Buddhism was the skinning alive of the Banpos. Don't know any other spiritual leader who inspired that.

People have been skinned alive for Jesus. They have been necklaced and impaled for Mohammed. They have been crucified for this Deity and fed to lions for that one, burned and dismembered and gutted and beaten and poisoned and stoned in the name of every spiritual leader of the Old World era there was.

So apparently religious flourishing has its downside, as well as religious decay. Again - - -

The Indians did become poor, Michael. Very very poor. Millions starved to death. We were niggers. See the difference?

Not really much of a difference in approach. The Brits ability to enslave on site is noted, but the centuries old Arab and Persian technique of capturing and marketing elsewhere is not that much higher on the moral scale. Again - - -

Why is incapability weighed as virtue?

 

[Michael]

Oh, its just too much. SAM, you want to think Muslims didn`t rape and murder as they pillaged everything from monestaries to castles go f$cking right ahead. I`m sure there`s room in your rectom next to the world`s only magical perfect book and invisible talking voices in MoMo`s head.

Oh, and while we`re rewriting history. It`s a known fact that Indians welcomed the English into India. The English never laid a hand on anyone. They were invited and asked by the Indians themselves to rule over them. Everyone knows that the English were the best thing that ever happened to India. Just ask your avergae English speaking, blue jean wearing, computer programing, movie making, parlament using Indian. Why do you think there are so many Indians that migrate to England. Indians love the English for freeing them.