eternal hell awaits anyone who questions gods infinite love
- Thread starter Baba O'Riley
- Start date
no okinrus, don't pay attention, this is a religious fourm right here, don't take the bait.
sorry dude, but i in no way believe in god. unfortunately the more i talk about this subject and read posts here i find myself more and more divorced from the concept of god. not to worry though, it's just not for me. i don't mind going to hell just because i have ideological differences with some people or a book (not that i actually believe in hell but when i die i somehow don't expect to end up in hell- especially if there is a god and especially if what you christians say is true. if god is all understanding then he will understand me and my problems. no sweat tho, i think faith is definately for some while definately not for others).
i'm saying the idea that wisdom is bad for us was put forward by religious types as a lid to keep wary minds from questioning religious theory with things like science. also, all wisdom cannot have extended from god as he supposedly only wrote one book. i believe most scientific discoveries had nothing to do with divine inspiration, but rather hard work from persevering humans.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
lol, WHY would you do that? he sounds like a badass, SELLING things to the poor- i GIVE clothes to the poor, i don't require money for such an action. jesus sounds like some kind of ultra hippy, honestly what can you achieve if you have no personal effects? NOTHING!! you need a basis on which you can do good. if you have nothing then your influence is limited.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You always have God.
Ok, it's exactly that which shows what is wrong with the Christian religion. For the purpose of manipulation, the Christians put forth the idea that knowledge and learning is wrong. Take a look at the facts:
The Snake is the symbol of knowledge; AND the symbol of EVIL.
The Snake (Knowledge) bestowed the power of learning unto Eve. This was seen as wrong by God.
Adam and Eve were thrown out of the Garden for LEARNING.
The Tower of Babel, which was a team effort which took intelligence and learning, was frowned upon and God made the people speak different languages.
God himself says that reason must be crushed underfoot.
In the Bible, anytime someone asks a question that even hints of doubt, they are punished or called out on it. People who ask questions which bear the mark of not believing in God's power are really, truly frowned upon. MANY examples are given. And for good reason...
It was a plan by the Christians to make it's followers very, very subserviant to the cause, and make them willing to do anything, becuase, after all, knowledge is evil, so there was no questioning of what was going on. So, as they did in the Bible, and did in times afterward, use their influence to wage wars, get new land and wealth, ect., ect..
If you look back on history, the times before the Bible, and how advanced things were back then, you can see easily why we are not on level with our ancestors. Tablets in Egypt depict complex surgery procedures such as heart, lung, kidney and even BRAIN transplants; trinkets modeled after flying machines have been found all over, as have tablets displaying spaceships and the proper order of planets in our solar system! Batteries capable of generating a decent amount of electricity have been found in Iraq! Summeria, the first known human civilization, had a sewer system and running hot and cold water!
Isn't it obvious that because of the power Christians wielded in the Roman empire (Eventually) and the monstrosities they committed in Europe and other parts of the world has caused our era of humanity to lag behind? The reason our ancestors could fly, could take hot baths, could draw perfectly accurate maps of the entire world, could heal diseases and replace faulty organs is becuase they did not have this damned book to deal with! There was no dogma to hold them back!
I mean, there's a reason that all of a sudden humanity started taking technological leaps and bounds in short periods of time, and that is becuase science, at a time not so long removed, decided that relgion would not hinder them from asking questions, going against the norm and society and asking WHY!
Christianity's hold may never break, but at least our visionaries have freed themselves. Someday, when someone says "Hey, why is that there?" and a man replies with "Becuase God wanted it that way." the first man can say "Yeah, bullshit."
JD
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
lol, WHY would you do that? he sounds like a badass, SELLING things to the poor- i GIVE clothes to the poor, i don't require money for such an action. jesus sounds like some kind of ultra hippy, honestly what can you achieve if you have no personal effects? NOTHING!! you need a basis on which you can do good. if you have nothing then your influence is limited.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You always have God.
Ok, it's exactly that which shows what is wrong with the Christian religion. For the purpose of manipulation, the Christians put forth the idea that knowledge and learning is wrong. Take a look at the facts:
The Snake is the symbol of knowledge; AND the symbol of EVIL.
The Snake (Knowledge) bestowed the power of learning unto Eve. This was seen as wrong by God.
Adam and Eve were thrown out of the Garden for LEARNING.
The Tower of Babel, which was a team effort which took intelligence and learning, was frowned upon and God made the people speak different languages.
God himself says that reason must be crushed underfoot.
In the Bible, anytime someone asks a question that even hints of doubt, they are punished or called out on it. People who ask questions which bear the mark of not believing in God's power are really, truly frowned upon. MANY examples are given. And for good reason...
It was a plan by the Christians to make it's followers very, very subserviant to the cause, and make them willing to do anything, becuase, after all, knowledge is evil, so there was no questioning of what was going on. So, as they did in the Bible, and did in times afterward, use their influence to wage wars, get new land and wealth, ect., ect..
If you look back on history, the times before the Bible, and how advanced things were back then, you can see easily why we are not on level with our ancestors. Tablets in Egypt depict complex surgery procedures such as heart, lung, kidney and even BRAIN transplants; trinkets modeled after flying machines have been found all over, as have tablets displaying spaceships and the proper order of planets in our solar system! Batteries capable of generating a decent amount of electricity have been found in Iraq! Summeria, the first known human civilization, had a sewer system and running hot and cold water!
Isn't it obvious that because of the power Christians wielded in the Roman empire (Eventually) and the monstrosities they committed in Europe and other parts of the world has caused our era of humanity to lag behind? The reason our ancestors could fly, could take hot baths, could draw perfectly accurate maps of the entire world, could heal diseases and replace faulty organs is becuase they did not have this damned book to deal with! There was no dogma to hold them back!
I mean, there's a reason that all of a sudden humanity started taking technological leaps and bounds in short periods of time, and that is becuase science, at a time not so long removed, decided that relgion would not hinder them from asking questions, going against the norm and society and asking WHY!
Christianity's hold may never break, but at least our visionaries have freed themselves. Someday, when someone says "Hey, why is that there?" and a man replies with "Becuase God wanted it that way." the first man can say "Yeah, bullshit."
JD
Agent Smith
Registered Senior Member
Okay, In the bible it never says that the pursuit of knowledge is evil. God told us to "subdue the earth and everything on it" (or something along those lines). Well, that pretty much means rule over the earth. Well inorder to rule you kind of have to have knowledge and learning. God gave us brains..so we could use it. The problem with the tree was that, it would give us the knowledge of evil. Before that, Adam and eve didnt know whath sin or evil was. Knowledge isnt evil, but some applications of it are evil.
_____
In Greek mythology:
ADONIS Beloved of Aphrodite, the central figure of a widespread fertility cult, god of vegetation and rebirth. Adonis seems clearly linked with Tammuz, the Assyro-Babylonion god who dies and rises again. Adonis is the Greek version of the Phoenician term Adon, which means "Lord."
Yes, it does mean that Jesus is NOT God.
Because Jesus was either a human being who died, or a figment of some creative person's imagination, updating ancient myths into a Jewish savior.
Paul never said Jesus was God.
Paul said Jesus was a Savior sent from God.
Once you understand the difference, you're a long way to understanding what the Bible really says.
There's a fictional being called "The Son of Man." Before Jesus was born, Jews and others were talking about the End of the World and how the Son of Man would appear in the clouds to judge mankind.
_______
The Book of Enoch is divided into five basic parts. The Book of Parables (37-71) is primarily concerned with a figure called "the messiah"; "the righteous one"; "the chosen one" and "the son of man."
Chapter 46:1-2 [1] There I beheld the Ancient of days whose head was like white wool, and with him another, whose countenance resembled that of a man. His countenance was full of grace, like that of one of the holy angels. Then I inquired of one of the angels, who went with me, and who showed me every secret thing, concerning this Son of man; who he was; whence he was; and why he accompanied the Ancient of days. [2] He answered and said to me, This is the Son of man, to whom righteousness belongs; with whom righteousness has dwealt; and who will reveal all the treasures of that which is concealed: for the Lord of spirits has chosen him; and his portion has surpassed all before the Lord of spirits in everlasting uprightness."
The opening verses of the Book of Enoch tell us that the revelations in this book were not meant for Enoch's generation, rather a remote generation...
________
The real Jesus never claimed to be the Son of Man, but he might have quoted from the stories about Enoch going around, to bolster his claim that the world was about to end.
In Roman mythology, a "soter" was a god who came down to earth and took human form for a while, and did good deeds. This was another popular form of literature at the time, stories about soters. To say that Jesus was a "soter" or a "Savior" could have meant a lot of things, but Paul was using it in a certain way, as a human being delegated by God to announce the End of the World.
This stuff is complete nonsense. Really, it is. But at least understand that Paul was not writing the Gospel in the way that you "believe" it - try to understand what it was, not what you want it to be, and you'll be way ahead of the game.
End of the World cult. 2 Peter, chapter 3.
www.google.com
Just on a hunch, I went over to Google and typed in
"soter Roman mythology"
Here's one of the first ones that came up:
Gnosticism ... combines ideas from Oriental mysticism and Greek philosophy. It stresses salvation through gnosis or intuitive knowledge in spiritual matters. Gnosticism has a dualistic view of life in that the world is seen as containing two opposing forces, good and evil.
>> The Jewish God, Jehovah, was considered to be a demon or devil who created this evil world.
>> The good was represented by a Savior, Soter in Greek.
>> Soter was also called the "Son of God " and was one of a trinity of g-ds.
>>> The soter would redeem mankind by his suffering and release it from the evil Demiurge.
Many of the Gnostic writings were anti-Jewish, reflecting the Jewish-Greek cultural rivalry. The dichotomy in Gnosticism was further seen in the conflict between body and soul and the contempt it expressed for sexuality in human nature (Maccoby, The Mythmaker: Paul And The Invention Of Christianity, p. 88-89).
from
http://www.geocities.com/faithofyeshua/conflict_judaism_gentile_hellenism_in_nt.htm
The term "soter" appears in an inscription
____________
...on a lighthouse called the Pharos, which was built on Pharos island, at the same time that the Great Library was built at Alexandria was the Great Library, one of two most important libraries of the Ancient World. Thanks to Demetrios, it obtained copies of all known scrolls of any consequence, and it is said to have contained over nine hundred thousand papyri.
>> Religious Christian fanatics burned the Great Library in 391 AD.
... The ever-increasing importance of Alexandria meant that its harbors had to be properly indicated, for the Egyptian coast has few landmarks to safely guide the sailor. It was then surely a necessity to build the lighthouse.
The Pharos was the first architecturally designed and developed lighthouse, the latest building to be added to what is now known as the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World.
>> Construction work on The Pharos was begun around 285 BC under Ptolemy I Soter, “the Savior” (305-282 BC),
Alexander’s childhood friend who, after Alexander’s death in 323 BC, set up a dynasty of Pharaohs
____________
So, we have an inscription where a Egyptian King who died in 282 BC was known as "Soter" "the Savior"
and lots of other places where Soter is used as a title meaning "Savior" too.before the term was applied to Jesus. check it out.
Last edited:
Jesus said that he was sent from God too. You have to understand that both are talking about the Father.
Titus 2:13
while we wait for the blessed hope--the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,
Isaiah says that the only Savior can be God on Earth. Now Paul was famaliar with Isaiah and would know this. Paul says that the blood of the lamb saves us from sin. Compare Paul and Isaiah
Isaiah 19
20 It will be a sign and witness to the LORD Almighty in the land of Egypt. When they cry out to the LORD because of their oppressors, he will send them a savior and defender, and he will rescue them.
Isaiah 43:11
I, even I, am the LORD ,
and apart from me there is no savior.
Isaiah 45:21
Declare what is to be, present it-
let them take counsel together.
Who foretold this long ago,
who declared it from the distant past?
Was it not I, the LORD ?
And there is no God apart from me,
a righteous God and a Savior;
there is none but me.
Isaiah 49:26
I will make your oppressors eat their own flesh;
they will be drunk on their own blood, as with wine.
Then all mankind will know
that I, the LORD , am your Savior,
your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob."
Hosea 13:4
"But I am the LORD your God,
who brought you out of [1] Egypt.
You shall acknowledge no God but me,
no Savior except me.
Ephesians 5:23
For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.
Philippians 3:20
But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,
1 Timothy 1
1Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the command of God our Savior and of Christ Jesus our hope,
1 Timothy 4:10(and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.
2 Timothy 1:10but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.
1 Timothy 2
5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
Corinthians 6:15
"I will live with them and move among them, and I will be their God and they shall be my people. Therefore, come forth from them and be separate," says the Lord, 'and touch nothing unclean; then I will receive you and I will be a ther to you and you shall be sons and daughters to me says the Lord Almighty".
Galatians 4:19
"Why, then, the law? It was added for transgressions, until the descendant came to whom the promise had been made; it was promulgated by angels at the hand of a mediator. Now there is no mediator when only one party is involved, and God is one."
Titus 1:4
To Titus, my true son in our common faith:
Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.
no wonder a lot of people have no quams about destroying rainforests and slaughtering entire species of animals. i think this gives credence to the fact that this was an end of the world cult. we should live in harmony with this world (don't get me wrong, i'm no tree hugging hippy) because last time i heard we're quickly making most things around us go the way of the dodo (that was our fault too).
_____
I'm going to pull up this verse in the Young's Literal translation.
unbound.biola.edu
1 Timothy 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to
>>> a command of God our Saviour,
>> and of the Lord Jesus Christ our hope,
to Timotheus -- genuine child in faith:
______
OK, this is a letter written by Paul, or at least the author claims to be Paul in the first sentence.
Paul then draws a clear distinction between Jesus, who he considers "our hope" and "God our Saviour".
So, Paul is not calling Jesus the Savior.
In Paul's thinking, God is the Savior who gives commands. Jesus is, well, Jesus is...
Okay, let's look at the letter. Paul tells Timothy that he needs to pray for all men, including his enemies, the men in a position to persecute Christians:
_______
1 Timothy 2:2
for kings, and all who are in authority, that a quiet and peaceable life we may lead in all piety and gravity,
1 Timothy 2:3
for this [is] right and acceptable before God our Saviour, who doth will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth;
1 Timothy 2:5
for one [is] God, one also [is] mediator of God and of men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Timothy 2:6
who did give himself a ransom for all -- the testimony in its own times --
1 Timothy 2:7
in regard to which I was set a preacher and apostle -- truth I say in Christ, I do not lie -- a teacher of nations, in faith and truth.
______________
The logic here is pretty clear.
(The words in parenthesis are implied, but not stated, in the Greek text.)
1 Timothy 2:5
for one [is] God, one also [is] mediator of God and of men, the man Christ Jesus,
So, the word "between" doesn't really appear in the Greek text.
It certainly seems, if you use the most basic logic, that a man could be a mediator between God and men... but God could not be a mediator between God and men.
How could God serve as mediator if he's one of the parties to the dispute?
You quoted this verse:
...the man Christ Jesus.
Clearly, in this letter, Paul (or whoever wrote it) said Jesus was a man. Doesn't say he was God, and clearly implies that he was NOT God because God couldn't be a mediator between God and other people.
This stuff is so simple - and no Christian ever gets it right.
You gave a quote from Titus. I'm not even going to bother with that one, since it was written about 50 years after Paul died.
Fr. Raymond E. Brown, is a member of the Vatican's Roman Pontifical Biblical Commission, and was described by Time magazine as "probably the premier Catholic scripture scholar in the U.S." 6 He has expressed his beliefs concerning the authorship of these epistles:
In his opinion, of the thirteen epistles which say that they were written by Paul, critical scholars have reached a near consensus that seven are Paul's: 1 Thessalonians, Galatians, 1 & 2 Corinthians, Philippians, Philemon and Romans.
>> Agreement that he did not write: 1 & 2 Timothy and Titus is about 90%
Ephesians is about 80%
Colossians is about 60%
2 Thessalonians is a slight majority.
Last edited:
great, i need to work on my tan
You are not a fanatic if you are able to consider for any length of time that your religion is not the dominate and true one. Especially if you have only had one religion in your whole life, you are a good candidate (I am not saying you have, but have you?). And posting one sided forums about God on the internet makes you another good candidate.
answer
Not only is God full of love, He is also a gentleman, and also (although slow to anger) still able to become angry.
God is full of love becuase He sent His Son to die for your sins.
God is a gentleman because he won't barge into your life without you first asking Him.
God still become angry because He gave His son and you reject him
Not only is God full of love, He is also a gentleman, and also (although slow to anger) still able to become angry.
God is full of love becuase He sent His Son to die for your sins.
God is a gentleman because he won't barge into your life without you first asking Him.
God still become angry because He gave His son and you reject him
Re: answer
Oh, God's going to become angry at me???
And what exactly is going to happen then?
If God is full of love, then why did God set things up so a man would have to die for my sins?
There is no God to barge into my life.
God does not exist.
God is a myth that men have invented. Most of the time, it is to con you out of your money.
I saw a minister on TV the other day. He said, "God wants you to give me money so God's work can be done."
Why would God need MY money to do HIS work?
Christianity is full of stupid ideas... not just the dying for sins, but the whole story.
If the world was going to end before I die, then I could see why someone else would have to die for my sins.
But if the world doesn't end before I die, then I get to die for my own sins.
Death is not pleasant.
If I have to die, then I think I've paid for my sins, and I don't need the Jesus guy to be my Savior.
On the other hand...
"Jesus died for your sins. Come to Las Vegas this weekend and get your money's worth."
________
Oh, God's going to become angry at me???
And what exactly is going to happen then?
If God is full of love, then why did God set things up so a man would have to die for my sins?
There is no God to barge into my life.
God does not exist.
God is a myth that men have invented. Most of the time, it is to con you out of your money.
I saw a minister on TV the other day. He said, "God wants you to give me money so God's work can be done."
Why would God need MY money to do HIS work?
Christianity is full of stupid ideas... not just the dying for sins, but the whole story.
If the world was going to end before I die, then I could see why someone else would have to die for my sins.
But if the world doesn't end before I die, then I get to die for my own sins.
Death is not pleasant.
If I have to die, then I think I've paid for my sins, and I don't need the Jesus guy to be my Savior.
On the other hand...
"Jesus died for your sins. Come to Las Vegas this weekend and get your money's worth."
There was a time when I doubted God's existance. I prayed for more faith and recieved many signs to believe.
Jesus is man and God at the same time.
Titus 2:13
while we wait for the blessed hope, the appearance of savior Jesus Christ, who gave himself to deliver us from all lawlessness and so cleanse for himself a people as his own, eager to do what is good.
How do you interpret this passage. Doesn't it imply that Jesus is God?
I believe that the authorship problems are that Paul begain loosing his site and had a secretary write parts of them.
2 Peter 15
And consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, as our beloved brother Pau, according to the wisdom given to him, also wrote to you, speaking of these things as he does in all his letters. In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures.
2 Peter 3 ends your speculation of the end of the world cult.