eternal hell awaits anyone who questions gods infinite love

I love how once the Christians on this board realize that Riley has them beat, they start with the "God is good, God is love" bullshit, not backing it up with anything.

Thing is, while Riley is backing up his claims with difference sources, explanations and such, all you people can do is quote scripture. You're in a dichotomy, becuase on one hand you're taking the scriptures at face value, but at the same time twisting them into what you want to believe.

Stop ignoring the facts. If you can't top his argument, or argue your own point effectively, don't waste our time with the "Good is a gentleman" shit, becuase you're just spouting shit you've heard in church. There is no evidence to back it up, and the only evidence present is against it. Read up on it, follow the links Riley is providing, read from sites that AREN'T pro-Christian, broaden your horizons on this matter.

You say you've searched for God, but where the hell did you look? You looked at Biblestudy.org? Yeah, well, if the only place I ever looked for affordable clothing was on CalvinKline.com, then I'd believe that a $99 white t-shirt was a great deal. You have to take in info from ALL different places, guys, not just somewhere you're going to hear nothing but "God Exists."

JD
 
Okinrus - the mere fact that you "prayed" for guidance meant that you had already decided the path you were going to take BEFORE - otherwise you would not have prayed in the first place.
 
Titus 2:13
while we wait for the blessed hope, the appearance of savior Jesus Christ, who gave himself to deliver us from all lawlessness and so cleanse for himself a people as his own, eager to do what is good.

How do you interpret this passage. Doesn't it imply that Jesus is God?
Click to expand...

Nowhere in that passage does it even remotely imply jesus is god.

Furthermore as i've now mentioned 1000 times, i fail to see how you could ignore Hebrews where god specifically says jesus is a priest for eternity and nothing more. Many other people held that rank, including melchizedek- another man who lives forever.
 
So, we have an inscription where a Egyptian King who died in 282 BC was known as "Soter" "the Savior"

and lots of other places where Soter is used as a title meaning "Savior" too.before the term was applied to Jesus. check it out.
Click to expand...
Perhaps but why do you think Paul would know about them? Did Paul speak Egyptian? Would Paul, a jew by the way, be hearing pagan roman folklore? Paul certainly knew Isaiah because he quotes from it many times. Since he was so famaliar with Isaiah and calls our Lord savior, he knew that our Lord was God on Earth.

Book of Enoch does not give any of miracles that Jesus did. The best it gives is vague prophesy. However since the writing was famaliar with early christians and it does say that Jesus is God, I will quote from it. The book of Enoch says that the Son of Man was God because he is being worshiped and the first commandment says that we should only worship God.

[Chapter 48]
1 And in that place I saw the fountain of righteousness
Which was inexhaustible:
And around it were many fountains of wisdom:
And all the thirsty drank of them,
And were filled with wisdom,
And their dwellings were with the righteous and holy and elect.
2 And at that hour that Son of Man was named In the presence of the Lord of Spirits,
And his name before the Head of Days.

3 Yea, before the sun and the signs were created,
Before the stars of the heaven were made,
His name was named before the Lord of Spirits.

4 He shall be a staff to the righteous whereon to stay themselves and not fall,
And he shall be the light of the Gentiles,
And the hope of those who are troubled of heart.

5 All who dwell on earth shall fall down and worship before him,
And will praise and bless and celebrate with song the Lord of Spirits.
 
Originally posted by okinrus
...Book of Enoch does not give any of miracles that Jesus did. ...

>> However since... it does say that Jesus is God, I will quote from it.

The book of Enoch says that the Son of Man was God because he is being worshiped and the first commandment says that we should only worship God.

3 Yea, before the sun and the signs were created,
Before the stars of the heaven were made,
His name was named before the Lord of Spirits.

4 And he shall be the light of the Gentiles,
And the hope of those who are troubled of heart.

5 All who dwell on earth shall fall down and worship before him,
And will praise and bless and celebrate with song the Lord of Spirits.
Click to expand...
_________

Wow.

The Book of Enoch does NOT say Jesus is God.

The Book of Enoch was written a hundred years before Jesus was born.

Nothing in the Book of Enoch refers to Jesus.

The Son of Man is a fictional character in a literary work that was in circulation before Jesus was born. Same way that the Lone Ranger existed before you were born.

If I found something in the story of the Lone Ranger that seems to apply to your life, would I be justified in saying the story of the Lone Ranger proves anything about YOU?

When the early church decided to invent a Gospel about the life of Jesus, they borrowed things from other works. It may be that Jesus was as hot for Enoch's story about the Son of Man as you are for the Bible, and he quoted it at every opportunity. Does this mean you are claiming to be Jesus? Or God? Because you talk about Jesus?

unbound.biola.edu

The last book in the NT, Revelation, claims to have been written by someone named John:

Revelation 1:9
I, John, who also [am] your brother, and fellow-partner in the tribulation, and in the reign and endurance, of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, because of the word of God, and because of the testimony of Jesus Christ;

Revelation 1:10
I was in the Spirit on the Lord's-day, and I heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, saying,
______________

Here's how the game works: John was in the Spirit. That could mean he was drunk. Or daydreaming. Or he had taken some kind of a drug that put him into a trance. Or he was asleep and he woke up. The NT authors refer to being "in the Spirit" as if it referred to something specific, but it never says what. So the voice John hears in his dream tells him:
__________


Revelation 1:11
'I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last;' and, 'What thou dost see, write in a scroll, and send to the seven assemblies that [are] in Asia; to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamos, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.'
______

So, this is where a lot of the information in the Bible comes from. The author has a dream, or a hallucination, and when he wakes up, he writes it down and sends it to all the churches. So, it isn't eyewitness testimony, it's what they experienced in a dream:
______________


Revelation 1:12
And I did turn to see the voice that did speak with me, and having turned, I saw seven golden lamp-stands,

Revelation 1:13
and in the midst of the seven lamp-stands, [one] like to a son of man, clothed to the foot, and girt round at the breast with a golden girdle,

Revelation 1:14
and his head and hairs white, as if white wool -- as snow, and his eyes as a flame of fire;

Revelation 1:15
and his feet like to fine brass, as in a furnace having been fired, and his voice as a sound of many waters,

Revelation 1:16
and having in his right hand seven stars, and out of his mouth a sharp two-edged sword is proceeding, and his countenance [is] as the sun shining in its might.

Revelation 1:17
And when I saw him, I did fall at his feet as dead, and he placed his right hand upon me, saying to me, 'Be not afraid; I am the First and the Last,

Revelation 1:18
and he who is living, and I did become dead, and, lo, I am living to the ages of the ages. Amen! and I have the keys of the hades and of the death.
________

So, this is how Jesus appeared in John's dream.

He has a two-edged sword.

His hair is as white as snow, as wool.

His eyes appear to be on fire.

He's wearing a golden girdle.

His voice has a sound of many waters.

This, as far as i can tell, is the best physical description of Jesus in the Bible.

And, of course, I take it all seriously. I BELIEVE.

Okay, that's a lie.

The authors of the books in the NT made up anything they wanted. You can't tell if anything they say is real.

Did Jesus have white hair?

Did his eyes burn like fire?

Was he the Son of Man?

Here's a great example of how the Gospel writers simply made up anything they pleased. In the Gospel of John, Mary finds an empty tomb and asks Simon Peter to come take a look. They see the grave clothes inside the tomb, but no Jesus.

John 20:10
The disciples therefore went away again unto their own friends,
___

Jesus could have appeared to Peter, but didn't. Why? Because Peter isn't telling this part of the story.
__________

John 20:11
and Mary was standing near the tomb, weeping without; as she was weeping, then, she stooped down to the tomb, and beholdeth two messengers in white, sitting,

John 20:12
one at the head, and one at the feet, where the body of Jesus had been laid.
______

If you believe in angels, invent a couple of angels and put them in your story.
________

John 20:13
And they say to her, 'Woman, why dost thou weep?' she saith to them, 'Because they took away my Lord, and I have not known where they laid him;'

John 20:14
and these things having said, she turned backward, and seeth Jesus standing, and she had not known that it is Jesus.
_______

She saw a man in the garden, and she didn't know it was Jesus.
Yeah, right.
________


John 20:15
Jesus saith to her, 'Woman, why dost thou weep? whom dost thou seek;'

>> she, supposing that he is the gardener, saith to him, 'Sir, if thou didst carry him away, tell me where thou didst lay him, and I will take him away;'
______

She talks to him, and she still doesn't know it's Jesus.
_________

John 20:16
Jesus saith to her, 'Mary!' having turned, she saith to him, 'Rabbouni;' that is to say, 'Teacher.'

John 20:17
Jesus saith to her, 'Be not touching me, for I have not yet ascended unto my Father; and be going on to my brethren, and say to them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and to your God.'
_______

Does Jesus claim to be God?

No.

He's says he is going to ascend unto "my God and to your God"

... to "my Father and your Father."

He says God is the Father of this woman just as much as he's the Father of Jesus.

Not much of a claim of personal divinity, is it?


This is all NONSENSE.
 
Last edited:
Yes. I meant the Son of Man which is a title for Jesus.
My argument was that the early christians accepted the book of Enoch which portends the messiah being worshiped as God. I've looked at the writings of Enoch and the similarities are in Revelation and the glorious transfiguation of our Lord. The actual teachings of the Messiah are not in the Book of Enoch. The Son of Man is not a title used to often for the messiah either.

When the early church decided to invent a Gospel about the life of Jesus, they borrowed things from other works. It may be that Jesus was as hot for Enoch's story about the Son of Man as you are for the Bible, and he quoted it at every opportunity. Does this mean you are claiming to be Jesus? Or God? Because you talk about Jesus?
Click to expand...
The son of man is used by God to refer to Ezekiel. Some of the things Ezekiel does are similar to what the messiah would do such as prophesing to the mountains and to the dead bones.
 
So, this is how Jesus appeared in John's dream.

He has a two-edged sword.

His hair is as white as snow, as wool.

His eyes appear to be on fire.

He's wearing a golden girdle.

His voice has a sound of many waters.
This, as far as i can tell, is the best physical description of Jesus in the Bible.
And, of course, I take it all seriously. I BELIEVE.
Okay, that's a lie.
The authors of the books in the NT made up anything they wanted. You can't tell if anything they say is real.
Did Jesus have white hair?
Did his eyes burn like fire?
Was he the Son of Man?
This is all NONSENSE.
Click to expand...
My notes at the beginning of the book says
"The Apocalypse, or Revelation to John, the last book of the Bible, is one of the most difficult to understand because it abounds in unfamilar and extravagant symbolism, which at best appears unusual to the modern reader. Symbolic language, however, is one of the chief characteristics of apocalyptic literature, of which this book is an outstanding example. Such literature enjoyed wide popularity in both Jewish and Christian circles from ca. 200 BC to AD 200.
 
Originally posted by okinrus
2 Peter 15
...Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, also wrote to you, speaking of these things as he does in all his letters. In them there are

>> some things hard to understand that

>> the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures.

2 Peter 3 ends your speculation of the end of the world cult.
Click to expand...
______

Actually, this is exactly the language that the leader of an End of the World cult HAS to use.

"Sure, there are some things that are difficult to understand, like why God missed three earlier deadlines. But I promise you, God is going to end the world next Tuesday, just like I predicted. Yes, I predicted NEXT Tuesday. All those reports that I said LAST Tuesday were distortions by the ignorant and unstable trying to make me look like a fool. By doubting my words, they have incurred the wrath of God and their own destruction."

I have to laugh every time a Christian says I have caused my own destruction because I don't believe the ramblings of an End of the World cult.

Here's a letter that says it was written by Peter:

2 Peter 3:3
this first knowing, that there shall come in the latter end of the days scoffers, according to their own desires going on,
_______

So, the people who have raised doubts abouthis message are scoffers, but Peter and all the others are "in the latter end of the days".... what does that mean? end of the days?
_______


2 Peter 3:4
and saying, 'Where is the promise of his presence? for since the fathers did fall asleep, all things so remain from the beginning of the creation;'
_____

Wow. There were some people in Peter's church who actually noticed the world had not ended as Peter predicted it would.
___________


2 Peter 3:5
for this is unobserved by them willingly, that the heavens were of old, and the earth out of water and through water standing together by the word of God, through which the then world, by water having been deluged, was destroyed;

2 Peter 3:7
and

>> the present heavens and the earth... are being kept to a day of judgment (by fire) and destruction of the impious men.
_____

Again, he insults those who doubt his prediction, calling them impious.
___________

2 Peter 3:9
the Lord is not slow in regard to the promise, as certain count slowness, but is long-suffering to us, not counselling any to be lost but all to pass on to reformation,
_________

Here's he speaks for god again. God is not slow in this promise, which I have the authority to interpret for you.
_______________

2 Peter 3:10
and it will come -- the day of the Lord --

>> in which the heavens with a rushing noise will pass away,

>>> and the elements with burning heat be dissolved,

>> and earth and the works in it shall be burnt up.
______

So what will happen on the Day of Judgment, when the Son of Man appears in the clouds?
____________

2 Peter 3:12... the day of God, by which the heavens, being on fire, shall be dissolved, and

>> the elements with burning heat shall melt;
______

That's the one that really impressed me, Peter's prediction that a burning heat will melt all the elements. Scary. Did it happen? Did I miss it? Did the earth burn up and I didn't notice? This letter was written about 100 AD. How long do we give a prediction like this before we reject it? A century? Two centuries? What would be a reasonable time to wait before we decide it was wrong?
_______

2 Peter 3:13
and for new heavens and

>> a new earth

>>> according to His promise we do wait,
_______

So the early Christians were sitting around waiting for "new heavens and a new earth according to His promise."

And they're still waiting.

1,900 years later.
 
Last edited:
"Know this first of all, that in the last days scoffers will come to scoff, living according to their own desires and saying, "Where is the promise of his coming?"

"But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years and a thousand years like one day. The Lord does not delay his promise, as some regard "delay", but he is patient with you, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance".
 
Originally posted by okinrus
[B"But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years and a thousand years like one day. [/B]
Click to expand...
_____

Peter says, "Hey, guys, remember when I predicted the world would end? Don't ignore the fact that God might wait a thousand years because His time sense is different than ours."

What a great recovery.

NONSENSE.
 
What passage are using to say that Peter predicted the end of the world would come when the Old Testament clearly indicates that all the nations must hear the gospel. Obviously Peter did not mean in the next week or two.
 
Originally posted by okinrus
What passage are using to say that Peter predicted the end of the world would come when the Old Testament clearly indicates that all the nations must hear the gospel.

>> Obviously Peter did not mean in the next week or two.
Click to expand...
_______

Peter meant exactly that.

1 Peter 4:6
for for this also to dead men was good news proclaimed, that they may be judged, indeed, according to men in the flesh, and may live according to God in the spirit.

1 Peter 4:7
And of all things the end hath come nigh; be sober-minded, then, and watch unto the prayers,

If you heard one of Peter's letters read aloud in a church, and the local minister read

"... and of all things the end hath come nigh..."


what would you think it meant?


Peter told his listeners that the end of the world was at hand.

It was near.

How else could you interpret 2 Peter 4:7?

The idea of the gospel being heard by all nations was a later addition, to explain why the world didn't end.

Peter: "Oh, you misunderstood. When I said the end of the world was at hand, I meant after a small cooling off period. And then God will end the world."

"I guarantee it."
 
What Peter knows comes from Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Jesus said "I'm coming soon" but he also said "no one knows the hour except the Father". So as soon as Jesus died and rose, we wait for the hour that he will come. Therefore the end of the world is at hand.
 
Originally posted by okinrus
What Peter knows comes from Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Jesus said "I'm coming soon" but he also said "no one knows the hour except the Father". So as soon as Jesus died and rose, we wait for the hour that he will come. Therefore the end of the world is at hand.
Click to expand...
__________

You're not thinking it through.

Peter died ~ 65 Ad.

Nothing that Peter actually said could have come later than 70 AD.

So, if Christians were "waiting for the hour that he will come" before 70 AD...


and in the year 2,003 AD, there's still no indication that he's going to come...


What is the rational process by which you come to the conclusion "Therefore the end of the world is at hand."???

http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20030426/FCCOLU_2/TPColumnists/

A few excerpts:

A Time/CNN poll has found that 17 per cent of Americans -- nearly one in five -- believe that the end of the world will come in their lifetimes,

>> and 59 per cent believe that the prophecies about the end of the world found in the Christian New Testament Book of Revelations are true and will happen, if not in the near future.

Apparently, many of them also think that British Prime Minister Tony Blair fits the definition of the Antichrist who will govern the world for seven years during the Time of Tribulation, after which Jesus will appear in glory to rule for 1,000 years before the Last Judgment of God. (Do a Google search of "Blair" and "Antichrist" if you've time on your hands.)

The war against Iraq, the ancient biblical Babylon described in repeated references in Revelations, has booted Americans' eschatological thoughts into overdrive. Revelations Chapter 9, Verse 11, for example --

>> yes, indeed, 9:11 --

talks about a king who is "the angel of the bottomless pit" commanding an army of locusts with the power of scorpions, the king's name being Abaddon in Hebrew or Apollyon in Greek, both meaning "Destroyer," an Arabic translation of Saddam.

The reason Tony Blair has been fingered by some as the Beast stems from Revelations, which says the Antichrist is a cunning deceiver -- Mr. Blair is titularly a socialist -- who will succeed in leading a world government. Mr. Blair advocates a permanent presidency of the European Union, a job it is thought he aspires to (as a first step).

Eschatology -- from the Greek word eschatos, meaning "last" or "farthest" -- flies so low on the radar screen of Canadian religious beliefs that Canadian pollsters rarely, if ever, bother probing it, says religion sociologist Reginald Bibby of the University of Lethbridge.

In the United States -- setting aside the sex scandal in the Roman Catholic Church -- institutional religion has remained the bedrock and keeper of the flame of American values, the moral equivalent of the Canadian constitutional mantra of peace, order and good government.
 
Last edited:
Blair is not the antichrist. He is not even an antichrist because he is a christian and accepts that Jesus came in the flesh.

I don't know about my lifetime but I don't really think that civilized society is going to last over 500 years with each country having nukes.
 
and what does nukes have to do with the bible or it's end of the world predictions? nothing. i can't believe christianity has persisted, even though it's been disproven by the bible itself, people still have the ignorance to believe in an end of the world cult that predicted the end of the world would occur about 2000 years ago.
 
Originally posted by okinrus
There was a time when I doubted God's existance. I prayed for more faith and recieved many signs to believe.
Click to expand...

Congratulations, but that means absolutely nothing to me.

In revision of my last post, I want to point the emphasise on 'escape' and not escaping into hell in a sarcastic tone. I like hell, it is a lot like California.
 
After reading the posts again, I am going to have to ask the religious folk to try to explain to me in a way that their religion is correct in a manner not using the bible or the religion itself. I mean, come on, that would be cheating. Explain to me why this religion is 'the one' in a sense refering to a different religion completely, science, math... something. Oh, and it has to be convincing, remember, your selling yourself now. :D
 
well i beleive that many people like you are being awaited down below by infinet pain, peace be with you
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top