End of Ice Age

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Thanks for re-posting those google suggestions.

And there are submergies off Platygiali, Astakos, Elafonisi, Epidauros, and Abdera, Greece.

And some off the coast Italy about a hundred miles up the coast from Rome (I forget the town), and some off Syracuse.
 
IceAgeCivilizations:

So are you saying that the tree ring records actually go back no further than 3500 years, and that this is because trees consistently show more than one early/late growth couplet per year - even deciduous trees? That's what you seem to be saying. You have also said that pollen grains in lake sediments appear older because of a volcanism-related (for which evidence is still not forthcoming) influx of C-12 (or N-14?) around 3500 years ago. Must we believe that these factors, as well as the deposition of multiple sediment laminae per year, combine so perfectly so as to make a <3500 year record appear to stretch to 10,000 years or so?

What igneous intrusives are you talking about?
Click to expand...

Granites are well represented in the Himalayas.

"Slump and flow structures" are often the foothills of the ranges.
Click to expand...

Please could you provide some evidence? Aren't there any such structures in the folded sediments that lack tension gashes that you speak of?
 
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IceAgeCivilizations said:
Thanks for re-posting those google suggestions.

And there are submergies off Platygiali, Astakos, Elafonisi, Epidauros, and Abdera, Greece.

And some off the coast Italy about a hundred miles up the coast from Rome (I forget the town), and some off Syracuse.
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Wrong.
None of those exist.
 
IceAgeCivilizations:

Please, show some professionalism. Cite your sources. At the very least, let us critique your base from your own sources, as opposed to all the other sources which refute you that we find...

Also, have you ever read "The Republic"? If so, please, tell us you also believe Plato's myth of the afterlife?
 
Go ask the Greek Ministry of Culture if the submergies exist off Elafonisi, Abdera, Astakos, Platygiali, and Epidauros.

And remember, if you can, Plato says that much of Greece, with city-states and lush farm and forest land, went under when Atlantis went under, so did ancient Greece, with megalithic building of fortresses, paved streets, and temples, go back to before 10,000 B.C.?
 
Just read about another one, off Rizomylos of Achaea, about a mile from shore in 20 feet of water, "Early Bronze Age," rectilinear building ruins along cobble stone streets, lots of pottery from pre 1500 B.C.
 
You guys gotta check out this web site:

http://experts.about.com/e/h/he/helike.htm

It tells the whole tale about Rizomylos, and how it sank beneath the waves overnight (no, the ice-age melt-down flooding didn't get it, though Ice Age will likely try to cling to that notion, notwithstanding good eyewitness stories of its demise).
 
The ruins of Helike were found within onshore sediments, the ruins a mile out to sea off Rizomylos are in 20 feet of water, big difference Walter.

And Helike bears artifacts up to the circa 400 B.C. timeframe, the submerged ruins a mile out from the coast were only Early Bronze Age.
 
Essentially the same site. Same method of submersion. Happened again in the 1800s A.D. The Roman tourists of 2,000+ years ago who visited Greece (it was a Roman colony by then) used to sail over the site, admiring the sunken Greek statuary. Eratosthenes (your shadow man) wrote about it too, several hundred years B.C. I guess you didn't check out the web site reference. The whole regions is riddled with fault zones from the African plate collisions.
 
Ruins and relics a mile out in 20 feet of water from "old Bronze Age only," Helike went under circa 400 B.C., now entombed in shore sediments, different events, obviously (except to Walter).
 
Different events, same site area, same method. Helike sank to over 20 feet in depth. Now a lagoon, filled in with sediments. Makes sense the other nearby areas also sank lower. Ever seen the coastline of Alaska after the Good Friday earthquake of 1963? Up and down all over the place, by 20-30 feet. Lots of sudden earth movement. Happens all the time.
 
Oh, now its different events, funny how you change your story as things move along.

In Critias and/or Timaeus, Plato wrote of the time that much of Greece succumbed to the sea, vast tracts of rich pasture and forest land, city-states with armies, sailing in triremes, but that vast land was lost to the sea, leaving as islands the mountaintops of that now submerged land.
 
We certainly can see some of that at Helike circa 2500 years ago, and very nearby Rizomylos circa 3500 years ago. And no, I posted a link to a web site - my story did not change, I simply posted a link and stated: "Essentially the same site. Same method of submersion". Those kinds of events, coupled with perhaps the last 10 feet of ice-age melt circa 6,000 years ago to 4,000 years ago (as I've posted before) certainly would give rise to stories about Greece sinking into the sea, leaving behind the mountaintops. If those stories originated from millenia earlier, it could well have been a 50 foot rise in the sea level. However, we don't find that many submerged cities, so it seems more likely that most of that is from subsidence, rather than the rising sea. Once again, you've presented no evidence to substantiate your claims that the Ice Ages suddenly ended circa 4,000 years ago in the course of about one century, raising the sea level some 400 feet. The evidence suggests strongly to the contrary, and is consistent with other evidences cited by Laika, et al. So, don't you think it's about time to change YOUR story, to fit the facts?
 
Now, if you can find the things that Plato implied, namely cities buried under 300-400 feet of water surrounding modern Greece, then perhaps we'd have some food for thought. And if we did, I'm sure they'd date to circa 16,000 B.C. or before, when people were in fact known to be in the area.
 
Walter L. Wagner said:
Different events, same site area, same method. Helike sank to over 20 feet in depth. Now a lagoon, filled in with sediments. Makes sense the other nearby areas also sank lower. Ever seen the coastline of Alaska after the Good Friday earthquake of 1963? Up and down all over the place, by 20-30 feet. Lots of sudden earth movement. Happens all the time.
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Well that doesn't happen all the time, not 9.2 earthquakes.
The 1964 9.2 earthquake in Alaska that left 132 dead—122 of those deaths have been attributed to the tsunami alone that was generated.

It was the strongest quake on record, till the 2004 9.0 Sumatra Quake.
On the other side of the "ring of fire".
Exactly 40 years later.

If you are looking for a submerged city, try ancient Capernium.

The similarities are interesting
Thou city which calls itself the city of the angels, thou shall be brought down to hell.
100 years after Jesus said those words Capernium was under water.

Another prophet with a supernatural ministry rejected by the religions of man,
heard God say in an audible voice to pick up a rock and through it in the air.
Thats all..... just a small rock caused a ripple in the air first, then it grew into a whirlwind that shook the ground with a 9.2 magnitude earthquake in Alaska.
It wasn't just a random event.
Judgment, he said; "Is going to strike the West coast" of the U.S.

Moses called down the 10 plagues, and parted the Red Sea by waving a stick, because God told him to and he believed it.

A section of about 100 miles along the coast and about 25 miles deep inland, will break off and sink sending a giant tsunami to wipe out every major coastal city on the Pacific rim.

Los Angeles and San Fransisco are on the top of the list as the most likely United States cities to be hit by the next magnitude 9 or greater quake according to the USGS. http://www.house.gov/science/hearings/full05/jan26/groat.pdf
 
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And major land displacements also are known to happen. Happens every few million years in Hawaii, when big chunks of the islands break away and tumble into the sea, creating huge tsuanmis. Lots of other potential disaster could happen, too. Mt. Rainier is scheduled to blow its top (like Mt. St. Helens), sending a torrent of melted snow down its sides. Has happened before, and is predicted to happen again. The problem is, no one knows how to do those predictions accurately. The 'seers' and 'psychics', self-proclaimed or otherwise, are too often wrong to use as a reliable predictor.

9.2 Earthquakes happen every century, too, somewhere around the globe. That's what I meant by "all the time". In other words, its not unheard of. Lots of ancient cities in the Mediterranean are now underwater because of subsidence. Helike is notable because it was written about immediately (days later) after it happened, by numerous eyewitnesses, and subsequent historians for several centuries after the fact.
 
Yes, the USGS said there had been about 4 such quakes in the last 200 years.

I saw the site, I don't doubt one bit there is a wealth of ancient cities on the bottom of the oceans, especially since I believe the tilt of the Earths axis was within the last 5000 years or so.
That would move the equator in ancient times and the temperate zones w/cities 33 % from where they are built now.

The similarity between Caperium and L.A. is uncanny because they both rejected a prophet of God sent them, and both have names that mean "The citiy of Angels".

Sorry, but you couldn't get met to set foot in California.
Seattle's probably not a great place to buy a house either though.
With Mt. Rainier scheduled to blow its top as you said.
 
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IceAgeCivilizations:

So are you saying that the tree ring records actually go back no further than 3500 years, and that this is because trees consistently show more than one early/late growth couplet per year - even deciduous trees? That's what you seem to be saying. You have also said that pollen grains in lake sediments appear older because of a volcanism-related (for which evidence is still not forthcoming) influx of C-12 (or N-14?) around 3500 years ago. Must we believe that these factors, as well as the deposition of multiple sediment laminae per year, combine so perfectly so as to make a <3500 year record appear to stretch to 10,000 years or so?

What igneous intrusives are you talking about?
Click to expand...

Granites are well represented in the Himalayas.

"Slump and flow structures" are often the foothills of the ranges.
Click to expand...

Please could you provide some evidence? Aren't there any such structures in the folded sediments that lack tension gashes that you speak of?
 
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