Put your crayon down.
End of Ice Age
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I don't quite understand how you came to that conclusion. I have a nagging suspicion that it's one of the strawmen that you seem to employ habitually, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and put it down to poor communication. I don't think that the Himalayas were twice as big. Because of isostasy and erosion the Himalayas may well be about as high as any mountain range can attain on Earth.
Here's what: the fact that granite crystallizes slowly means that it forms deep underground. If it was extruded, or intruded at shallower depth, it wouldn't be granite. Therefore, the granite which is today exposed in the Himalayas cooled slowly, at depth. This inescapable fact appears to contradict your claim that the Himalayas formed within human history.
Indeed you did not. That is why I asked you to clarify your position on the matter. I assumed this was your belief because if tree ring records do go back further than 3500 years then we would expect to see evidence of the sudden climate change you claim.
Ice Age wrote in Post #295:
"So when do you say Herakleion went under, Walter? First you say it was 700 A.D., now you say it was around the time of Alexander, as you 'would imagine,' so get your story straight."
You get your story straight. I never stated Alexandria sank around the time of Alexander, and you know I never stated as such. Why do you keep making up lies? Can't deal with the truth?
Both the cited article from that web cite, and I, have stated that Herakleion sank circa 700 AD, a full MILLENIA after Alexandria was founded. The same earthquake that sank Herakleion also destroyed the Lighthouse of Alexandria, toppling it and sinking that area as well, though not as much as at Herakleion, which was sitting on nile-delta sediment.
And whether Herodotus only heard about Herakleion, as you claim, or visited it as he wrote about, is irrelevant. Herakleion existed when Alexander founded Alexandria, according to the accountings. It was the major port city for Egypt at that time, but eclipsed in importance as Alexandria and its major harbor and major lighthouse grew in importance.
"So when do you say Herakleion went under, Walter? First you say it was 700 A.D., now you say it was around the time of Alexander, as you 'would imagine,' so get your story straight."
You get your story straight. I never stated Alexandria sank around the time of Alexander, and you know I never stated as such. Why do you keep making up lies? Can't deal with the truth?
Both the cited article from that web cite, and I, have stated that Herakleion sank circa 700 AD, a full MILLENIA after Alexandria was founded. The same earthquake that sank Herakleion also destroyed the Lighthouse of Alexandria, toppling it and sinking that area as well, though not as much as at Herakleion, which was sitting on nile-delta sediment.
And whether Herodotus only heard about Herakleion, as you claim, or visited it as he wrote about, is irrelevant. Herakleion existed when Alexander founded Alexandria, according to the accountings. It was the major port city for Egypt at that time, but eclipsed in importance as Alexandria and its major harbor and major lighthouse grew in importance.
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I never said you said Alexandria sank at the time of Alexander.
What "accountings" say Herakleion existed when Alexandria was founded?
What "accountings" say Herakleion existed when Alexandria was founded?
Read what you wrote in Post #295. Do your own research, I'm tired of correcting you. I don't usually do Adult Ed, but I made an exception in your case. Case over.
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Like I said, I never said that you said that Alexandria went under at the time of Alexander, you resort to lying to make a case, quite pathetic.
Walter, once again, what "accountings" say that Herakeion existed when Alexandria was founded?
Incidentally, the Egpytian name for now submerged Herakleion was Rahinet.
Incidentally, the Egpytian name for now submerged Herakleion was Rahinet.
http://www.egyptsites.co.uk/lower/delta/western/abuqir.html
see also:
http://messagenet.com/myths/ppt/Herakleion_1.html
http://wolfeathers.com/Osiris.htm
now, go and do your own research. it's not hard
see also:
http://messagenet.com/myths/ppt/Herakleion_1.html
http://wolfeathers.com/Osiris.htm
now, go and do your own research. it's not hard
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Ahahahaha, they say that Herakeion went under supposedly in the 8th century A.D., but "nobody knows how it happened, no records, no geology," ahahaha.
And they say that Herakleion is on the coast, but in reality, it's 6 miles out to sea on the seafloor, back to the drawing board for you Walter. (That was weak man.)
And they say that Herakleion is on the coast, but in reality, it's 6 miles out to sea on the seafloor, back to the drawing board for you Walter. (That was weak man.)
Reading comprehension is certainly not your forte. The articles state that Herakleion is about 4 miles out to sea (6 kilometers, not 6 miles). The conclusion is that it was an earthquake, because all of the columns fell in the same direction. It appears probable it was the same earthquake that toppled the lighthouse at Alexandria (which fell into the harbor). It is certain that it happened circa the 8th century A.D. because people (ancient Greeks) kept writing about Herakleion in the present tense during the classic Greek era, it was eclipsed by the rise of Alexandria and beame a lesser port compared to Alexandria, according to those then-contemporaneous writings, and because of the extensive find of Islamic and Byzantine coins from circa 8th century A.D. at the underwater site, but none more recent.
So how exactly do the above facts support your contention that Herakleion went under water circa 2,000 B.C. due to a sudden (over the course of one century) end to the Ice Age, raising the oceans some 400 feet. That must have been some port city, 380 feet above the sea, only to be flooded in a century to where it now lies, in only 20 feet of water.
So what do you do for a living - obviously it can't be geology?
Just exactly how did you get into Dartmouth, anyway?
So how exactly do the above facts support your contention that Herakleion went under water circa 2,000 B.C. due to a sudden (over the course of one century) end to the Ice Age, raising the oceans some 400 feet. That must have been some port city, 380 feet above the sea, only to be flooded in a century to where it now lies, in only 20 feet of water.
So what do you do for a living - obviously it can't be geology?
Just exactly how did you get into Dartmouth, anyway?
There are reports of ruins down to 80 foot depths, it was a riverport city, Menouthis on one side, and Herakleion on the other side, of the Canopic branch of the Nile, which has been extinct since the end of the Ice Age, so take your silly links (they look like cut and paste in kindergarten), soak your head, and try something new.
http://www.egyptsites.co.uk/lower/de...rn/abuqir.html
"The modern village of Abu Qir is situated on the western point of Abu Qir Bay, on the Mediterranean coast 19km east of Alexandria. Ancient Greek writers describe two decadent cities, Canopus and Herakleion, lying here at the mouth of the now-extinct Canopic branch of the Nile. The cities, which began to decline in fortune after the founding of Alexandria in 331 BC, were mysteriously swallowed by the sea.
A wealth of ancient texts document the cities. Herodotus, visited Canopus during the 5th century BC, while Strabo visited Herakleion centuries later at the beginning of the first millennium and Seneca, writing around the same time, condemned the cities as decadent and corrupt. The cities' original wealth seems to have derived from the collection of taxes on goods coming into the coastal ports to be shipped up-river. The famous 'Decree of Canopus', issued by priests assembled at Canopus in 238 BC in honour of Ptolemy III Euergetes (found at Tanis by Karl Lepsius) offers a trilingual text which has been of enormous value in studying the ancient Egyptian language, comparable to the Rosetta Stone.
Greek legend states that the city of Canopus was named after the Homeric pilot of Menelaus, who was said to have stayed in Herakleion after the Trojan wars. Likewise the city of Herakleion, according to Herodotus, was named after Heracles, also of Homeric fame. The inhabitants of Canopus were known to have worshiped human-headed jars as the personification of Osiris and depicted on some Roman coins from the Alexandrian mint, an image which provided early Egyptologists with a name for the human-headed jars used for the burial of viscera during the mummification process. It is however a misconception that 'Canopic jars' found in tombs had anything to do with the town of Canopus, but the name has stuck.
For many centuries we have known of the existence of Canopus and Herakleion and the Abu Qir area has been visited by many travellers since the 18th century, who would follow the shoreline in the hope of finding evidence of the ruined cities. Submerged cities have long captured the imaginations of travellers everywhere and Canopus is no exception, but until recently we have had no documented evidence of what catastrophic disaster could have happened to cause the sudden and total disappearance of these cities, probably around the 8th century AD. Speculation by scholars has been varied - earthquake, flood, subsistence collapse and a rise in sea levels have all been suggested.
The spectacular discovery of the almost intact ruins of East Canopus and Herakleion was announced in 1999 following an expedition by a team of French marine archaeologists directed by Franck Goddio. Since then, with the aid of the latest methods in underwater technology, the European Institute for Underwater Archaeology in collaboration with the Egyptian Supreme Council of Antiquities have made many exciting discoveries during several seasons diving off the coast in Abu Qir Bay. The tremendous importance of the site lies in its existence before the foundation of Alexandria and in the fact that its monuments have been largely preserved, unlike the underwater ruins in Alexandria Bay. There are many years of work ahead for the divers, archaeologists and historians who make up the international team, which will undoubtedly reveal a great deal of information on the economic and cultural relationships which existed between Egypt and Greece during the late pharaonic period.
For detailed information of underwater excavations at Abu Qir see Franck Goddio's website."
http://wolfeathers.com/Osiris.htm
"Archaeologists Discover Lost Cities By VIJAY JOSHI .c The Associated Press June 2, 2000
ALEXANDRIA, Egypt (AP) - Archaeologists scouring the Mediterranean seabed announced they have found the 2,500-year-old ruins of submerged Pharaonic cities that until now were known only through Greek tragedies, travelogues and legends.
Among the stunning discoveries at the sites - where the cities of Herakleion, Canopus and Menouthis once stood - are remarkably preserved houses, temples, port infrastructure and colossal statues that stand testimony to the citizens' luxuriant lifestyle, which some travelers had described as decadent.
This is the first time that historians have found physical evidence of the existence of the lost cities, which were famous not only for their riches and arts, but also for numerous temples dedicated to the gods Isis, Serapis and Osiris, making the region an important pilgrimage destination for various cults.
Herakleion, once a customs port where commerce flourished until the founding of Alexandria by Alexander the Great in 331 B.C., was found in its entirety.
``We have an intact city, frozen in time,'' French archaeologist Franck Goddio, who led the international team in the search, told The Associated Press.
The team worked for two years off this city on Egypt's northern coast in waters 20 to 30 feet deep, using modern technology including the use of magnetic waves to map the area.
``It is the most exciting find in the history of marine archaeology. It has shown that land is not enough for Egyptian antiquities,'' said Gaballa Ali Gaballa, secretary-general of the Supreme Council of Antiquities, Egypt's top archaeology body.
At a news conference, underwater television footage of the site was shown to reporters. Some of the treasure was also on display - a basalt head of a pharaoh, a bust of the curly haired and bearded god Serapis and a life-size headless black granite statue of the goddess Isis, sculpted as if wearing a diaphanous cloth held together by knots at her breast.
``At long last, these lost cities of Menouthis and Herakleion have been located,'' said Gaballa.
He said the cities - probably built during the waning days of the pharaohs in the 7th or 6th century B.C. - will be left as they are in the sea and only smaller pieces will be retrieved for museums.
Numerous ancient texts speak of the importance of the region and the cities, before they were covered over by the sea, probably following an earthquake.
Greek historian Herodotus, who visited Egypt in 450 B.C., wrote about Herakleion and its temple dedicated to Hercules. The sites were also named in Greek tragedies - Greek mythology tells the story of Menelaos, king of Spartans, who stopped in Herakleion during his return from Troy with Helena. His helmsman Canopus was bitten by a viper and subsequently transformed into a god. Canopus and his wife Menouthis were immortalized by two cities that bore their names.
Authors such as Strabo describe the geographic location of the cities and their rich lifestyle, while others, such as Seneca, condemn their moral corruption.
Herakleion lost its economic importance after the building of Alexandria. It was probably destroyed by an earthquake, indicated by the position of collapsed columns and walls. They had all fallen systematically in one direction, said Amos Nur, a geophysicist from Stanford University who did the magnetic mapping of the area.
The sea encroached on the land following the quake, and ruins of Herakleion are now about four miles from land in the Bay of Abu Qir. The sea also engulfed Canopus and Menouthis.
The destruction most likely happened in the 7th or 8th century. Divers found Islamic and Byzantine coins and jewelry from that period, but none more recent."
"The modern village of Abu Qir is situated on the western point of Abu Qir Bay, on the Mediterranean coast 19km east of Alexandria. Ancient Greek writers describe two decadent cities, Canopus and Herakleion, lying here at the mouth of the now-extinct Canopic branch of the Nile. The cities, which began to decline in fortune after the founding of Alexandria in 331 BC, were mysteriously swallowed by the sea.
A wealth of ancient texts document the cities. Herodotus, visited Canopus during the 5th century BC, while Strabo visited Herakleion centuries later at the beginning of the first millennium and Seneca, writing around the same time, condemned the cities as decadent and corrupt. The cities' original wealth seems to have derived from the collection of taxes on goods coming into the coastal ports to be shipped up-river. The famous 'Decree of Canopus', issued by priests assembled at Canopus in 238 BC in honour of Ptolemy III Euergetes (found at Tanis by Karl Lepsius) offers a trilingual text which has been of enormous value in studying the ancient Egyptian language, comparable to the Rosetta Stone.
Greek legend states that the city of Canopus was named after the Homeric pilot of Menelaus, who was said to have stayed in Herakleion after the Trojan wars. Likewise the city of Herakleion, according to Herodotus, was named after Heracles, also of Homeric fame. The inhabitants of Canopus were known to have worshiped human-headed jars as the personification of Osiris and depicted on some Roman coins from the Alexandrian mint, an image which provided early Egyptologists with a name for the human-headed jars used for the burial of viscera during the mummification process. It is however a misconception that 'Canopic jars' found in tombs had anything to do with the town of Canopus, but the name has stuck.
For many centuries we have known of the existence of Canopus and Herakleion and the Abu Qir area has been visited by many travellers since the 18th century, who would follow the shoreline in the hope of finding evidence of the ruined cities. Submerged cities have long captured the imaginations of travellers everywhere and Canopus is no exception, but until recently we have had no documented evidence of what catastrophic disaster could have happened to cause the sudden and total disappearance of these cities, probably around the 8th century AD. Speculation by scholars has been varied - earthquake, flood, subsistence collapse and a rise in sea levels have all been suggested.
The spectacular discovery of the almost intact ruins of East Canopus and Herakleion was announced in 1999 following an expedition by a team of French marine archaeologists directed by Franck Goddio. Since then, with the aid of the latest methods in underwater technology, the European Institute for Underwater Archaeology in collaboration with the Egyptian Supreme Council of Antiquities have made many exciting discoveries during several seasons diving off the coast in Abu Qir Bay. The tremendous importance of the site lies in its existence before the foundation of Alexandria and in the fact that its monuments have been largely preserved, unlike the underwater ruins in Alexandria Bay. There are many years of work ahead for the divers, archaeologists and historians who make up the international team, which will undoubtedly reveal a great deal of information on the economic and cultural relationships which existed between Egypt and Greece during the late pharaonic period.
For detailed information of underwater excavations at Abu Qir see Franck Goddio's website."
http://wolfeathers.com/Osiris.htm
"Archaeologists Discover Lost Cities By VIJAY JOSHI .c The Associated Press June 2, 2000
ALEXANDRIA, Egypt (AP) - Archaeologists scouring the Mediterranean seabed announced they have found the 2,500-year-old ruins of submerged Pharaonic cities that until now were known only through Greek tragedies, travelogues and legends.
Among the stunning discoveries at the sites - where the cities of Herakleion, Canopus and Menouthis once stood - are remarkably preserved houses, temples, port infrastructure and colossal statues that stand testimony to the citizens' luxuriant lifestyle, which some travelers had described as decadent.
This is the first time that historians have found physical evidence of the existence of the lost cities, which were famous not only for their riches and arts, but also for numerous temples dedicated to the gods Isis, Serapis and Osiris, making the region an important pilgrimage destination for various cults.
Herakleion, once a customs port where commerce flourished until the founding of Alexandria by Alexander the Great in 331 B.C., was found in its entirety.
``We have an intact city, frozen in time,'' French archaeologist Franck Goddio, who led the international team in the search, told The Associated Press.
The team worked for two years off this city on Egypt's northern coast in waters 20 to 30 feet deep, using modern technology including the use of magnetic waves to map the area.
``It is the most exciting find in the history of marine archaeology. It has shown that land is not enough for Egyptian antiquities,'' said Gaballa Ali Gaballa, secretary-general of the Supreme Council of Antiquities, Egypt's top archaeology body.
At a news conference, underwater television footage of the site was shown to reporters. Some of the treasure was also on display - a basalt head of a pharaoh, a bust of the curly haired and bearded god Serapis and a life-size headless black granite statue of the goddess Isis, sculpted as if wearing a diaphanous cloth held together by knots at her breast.
``At long last, these lost cities of Menouthis and Herakleion have been located,'' said Gaballa.
He said the cities - probably built during the waning days of the pharaohs in the 7th or 6th century B.C. - will be left as they are in the sea and only smaller pieces will be retrieved for museums.
Numerous ancient texts speak of the importance of the region and the cities, before they were covered over by the sea, probably following an earthquake.
Greek historian Herodotus, who visited Egypt in 450 B.C., wrote about Herakleion and its temple dedicated to Hercules. The sites were also named in Greek tragedies - Greek mythology tells the story of Menelaos, king of Spartans, who stopped in Herakleion during his return from Troy with Helena. His helmsman Canopus was bitten by a viper and subsequently transformed into a god. Canopus and his wife Menouthis were immortalized by two cities that bore their names.
Authors such as Strabo describe the geographic location of the cities and their rich lifestyle, while others, such as Seneca, condemn their moral corruption.
Herakleion lost its economic importance after the building of Alexandria. It was probably destroyed by an earthquake, indicated by the position of collapsed columns and walls. They had all fallen systematically in one direction, said Amos Nur, a geophysicist from Stanford University who did the magnetic mapping of the area.
The sea encroached on the land following the quake, and ruins of Herakleion are now about four miles from land in the Bay of Abu Qir. The sea also engulfed Canopus and Menouthis.
The destruction most likely happened in the 7th or 8th century. Divers found Islamic and Byzantine coins and jewelry from that period, but none more recent."
The Canopic branch of the Nile ceased to exist circa 1500 B.C.
http://www.ask-aladdin.com/alexandria.html
"In 333 BC Alexander entered Memphis, the ancient capital of Egypt, where he was welcomed and hailed as a King by the Egyptians. He was a quite clever diplomat, as he showed great respect and veneration to the gods of ancient Egypt, especially Ptah, the patron god of Memphis.
Afterwards Alexander decided to visit the famous Oracle Temple of Amon, located in the oasis of Siwa, in order to consult the seer about his destiny.
He was marching parallel to the Canopic branch of the Nile
when he stopped to rest at an old Egyptian village called "Re-qdt” (its Greek name is “Racotis”) between the Mediterranean Sea and the Lake of Mariott (its location today is the area of Tel Bab Sadrah or Karmouz). Alexander decided to build a town there, which became the chosen site of Alexandria. He had an architect named "Dinocratis" plan it – it was the birth of a great new city."
http://scicom.ucsc.edu/SciNotes/0101/egypt.html
Hidden beneath 2 feet of sand and 21 feet of murky water lie the once great Egyptian cities of Menouthis and Herakleion. The cities thrived on commerce entering the Nile River from the Mediterranean Sea. But the prosperity ended abruptly and mysteriously. From the remains left under the sea, archeologists know the people in Menouthis left in a hurry, never to return. At least two catastrophes leveled the cities and plunged them into the Mediterranean more than 12 centuries ago.
To try to learn what happened, the archeologists who discovered Menouthis last year recently called in geological experts. All geologists agree something drastic caused the ground upon which these cities were built to act like a liquid and slide almost instantly into the sea. The geologists vigorously debate why the muddy ground liquefied. One camp favors devastatingly powerful earthquakes as the culprit. The other says the inexorable deluge of the Nile in full flood caused the damage. Despite these disputes, the geologists agree that similar fates could befall coastal cities today with a much greater loss of life and property.
Some archeologists argue that the ruins found at Menouthis are really part of a larger sister city called Canopus, which hosted religious festivals known throughout the ancient world for extravagance and the licentious behavior of the participants. A temple to the goddess Isis made Menouthis the religious center of ancient Egypt and destination of thousands of pilgrims. The discovery of this temple and the location of the ruins led French archeologist Franck Goddio to believe his group had located Menouthis. Nearby Herakleion stood at the mouth of the river Nile, acting as a gateway to the ports beyond. All boat traffic entering the Nile stopped to pay taxes in Herakleion.
"During flood times, rivers can change course by abandoning previous channels and forging new ones.
Data show that the Canopic branch of the Nile, which flowed next to Herakleion, has moved eastward over the past thousand years. Today no channel of the Nile flows into the Mediterranean through the Bay of Aboukir.
Stanley says he thinks the 741 and 742 floods could have helped shift the course of the Nile."
"In 333 BC Alexander entered Memphis, the ancient capital of Egypt, where he was welcomed and hailed as a King by the Egyptians. He was a quite clever diplomat, as he showed great respect and veneration to the gods of ancient Egypt, especially Ptah, the patron god of Memphis.
Afterwards Alexander decided to visit the famous Oracle Temple of Amon, located in the oasis of Siwa, in order to consult the seer about his destiny.
He was marching parallel to the Canopic branch of the Nile
when he stopped to rest at an old Egyptian village called "Re-qdt” (its Greek name is “Racotis”) between the Mediterranean Sea and the Lake of Mariott (its location today is the area of Tel Bab Sadrah or Karmouz). Alexander decided to build a town there, which became the chosen site of Alexandria. He had an architect named "Dinocratis" plan it – it was the birth of a great new city."
http://scicom.ucsc.edu/SciNotes/0101/egypt.html
Hidden beneath 2 feet of sand and 21 feet of murky water lie the once great Egyptian cities of Menouthis and Herakleion. The cities thrived on commerce entering the Nile River from the Mediterranean Sea. But the prosperity ended abruptly and mysteriously. From the remains left under the sea, archeologists know the people in Menouthis left in a hurry, never to return. At least two catastrophes leveled the cities and plunged them into the Mediterranean more than 12 centuries ago.
To try to learn what happened, the archeologists who discovered Menouthis last year recently called in geological experts. All geologists agree something drastic caused the ground upon which these cities were built to act like a liquid and slide almost instantly into the sea. The geologists vigorously debate why the muddy ground liquefied. One camp favors devastatingly powerful earthquakes as the culprit. The other says the inexorable deluge of the Nile in full flood caused the damage. Despite these disputes, the geologists agree that similar fates could befall coastal cities today with a much greater loss of life and property.
Some archeologists argue that the ruins found at Menouthis are really part of a larger sister city called Canopus, which hosted religious festivals known throughout the ancient world for extravagance and the licentious behavior of the participants. A temple to the goddess Isis made Menouthis the religious center of ancient Egypt and destination of thousands of pilgrims. The discovery of this temple and the location of the ruins led French archeologist Franck Goddio to believe his group had located Menouthis. Nearby Herakleion stood at the mouth of the river Nile, acting as a gateway to the ports beyond. All boat traffic entering the Nile stopped to pay taxes in Herakleion.
"During flood times, rivers can change course by abandoning previous channels and forging new ones.
Data show that the Canopic branch of the Nile, which flowed next to Herakleion, has moved eastward over the past thousand years. Today no channel of the Nile flows into the Mediterranean through the Bay of Aboukir.
Stanley says he thinks the 741 and 742 floods could have helped shift the course of the Nile."
I cite where I get my information. Why don't you cite your information for your claim that the Canopic branch went extinct circa 1500 B.C., rather than 1,000 A.D. as my sources indicate.
IceAgeCivilizations:
Two things:
Answer my question re: Plato, please.
Secondly:
Two things:
Answer my question re: Plato, please.
Secondly:
CITE
YOUR
DAMN
SOURCES!!!
YOUR
DAMN
SOURCES!!!
First of all, if you'll look at what I've highlighted, you are presuming that Ice Age is assuming what you are assuming.
Thats like a triple negative.
You just beat yourself with a stick right there.
You might as well try to mis-quote someone, quote your own mis-quote, and then call your own quote an error.
Nobody's falling for it.
I'm not here to pick on you and add insult to the considerable injury you've already inflicted on yourself, or to say Ice Age is correct on his entire Atlantis theory.
The truth is out there and I just want to play a part in using the vast resources of this forum .... it's peoples minds, to work together in finding solutions.
The fact two of the most intelligent men of the Golden era in ancient Greece talk of believing in the afterlife.........supports your negative position how?
Rather than belittling brilliant men's ideas to try and make yourself look better, you could have embraced their ideas to see what truth you could glean from it.
Most religions that believe in spiritual and metaphysical phenomena have basis in fact somewhere.
An all out lie deceives no one.....even the falsest of religions have to contain some truth or no one would follow them.
These "afterlife" descriptions that you so vehemently oppose have been observed by the people of every language , nationality, and race on the face of the Earth.
You can't possibly be saying you believe there's absolutely nothing to it.
They can't all be completely wrong.
If there is something to it then, I say lets find out together what that is.
Homer, Plato, and Socrates all were great scholars of their day, and no doubt some of their stories were mixed with fiction, dramatized with poetic license and some maybe were just plain fiction.
But some of those stories, those tales of lore..... could have based on some factual events to start with.
The epic of Gilgamesh, the story of Atlas, the great libraries of Alexandria mentioned in Plato's account...all have some ring of truth behind the tale.
That was indeed a very different time."In days of old when magic filed the air"
But they were not necessarily as primitive as we have been led to believe.
Hence the term magic was used to describe some things we until only recently could not understand.
Don't throw the baby out with the bath water on these old stories.
With the right mental attitude one could separate the true part from the false and end up with something of real value to add to their own understanding and have something new also to share with others as well.
Something that is positive instead of negative.
This is the one of the greatest times in the history of the world to be alive.
We are on the verge of a change of massive proportions, a leap foward for all mankind.
A true singularity.
If we can survive this change that's coming, there is no bounds to the realization of our imagination.
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TheVisitor:
I fail to see how this is so? I am claiming that he is using Plato as a historian. Plato, however, is known to have written -stories- and -parables- in his dialogues. Atlantis does not exist because Plato said it does.
It affirms that he spun tales. Presumably, Plato had no access to the afterlife. It is also remarkably speculative and based on cultural myths.
Metaphysical phenomena? What is that? The study of theology, ontology, and first principles has phenomena now?
What about a reasonable fantasy?
As far as I know, no one has ever died and came back?
The story of Atlas...............? You mean Hercules stealing apples by tricking the giant who upholds the world?
I fail to see how this is so? I am claiming that he is using Plato as a historian. Plato, however, is known to have written -stories- and -parables- in his dialogues. Atlantis does not exist because Plato said it does.
It affirms that he spun tales. Presumably, Plato had no access to the afterlife. It is also remarkably speculative and based on cultural myths.
Metaphysical phenomena? What is that? The study of theology, ontology, and first principles has phenomena now?
What about a reasonable fantasy?
As far as I know, no one has ever died and came back?
The story of Atlas...............? You mean Hercules stealing apples by tricking the giant who upholds the world?
Prince James you understand so little of the world around you.
I am only suggesting you stop saying what everything is not, and start looking for what is.
You don't even know the meaning of the word "metaphysical"
There are schools devoted to metaphysics alone.
You can look up a definition with goggle but that doesn't mean you can understand it.
Atlas.....that one story has so rich a background and allegory in actual history.
You've read my posts ......
Don't just exist for mindless debate and argument.
Some here can't handle it as well as I can :bugeye:
I am only suggesting you stop saying what everything is not, and start looking for what is.
You don't even know the meaning of the word "metaphysical"
There are schools devoted to metaphysics alone.
You can look up a definition with goggle but that doesn't mean you can understand it.
Atlas.....that one story has so rich a background and allegory in actual history.
You've read my posts ......
Don't just exist for mindless debate and argument.
Some here can't handle it as well as I can :bugeye:
TheVisitor,
The only way to show something is true is to show evidence and to date no religious claim has ever demonstrated a single truth.
Nonsense. There are no known facts established by religion, that’s why they ALL assert the need for faith – i.e. belief without facts.
Nonsense again. People tend to believe whatever makes them feel comfortable. Truth doesn’t have to be present. But again – name any single truth established by any religion.
And they all make such claims for exactly the same reasons – fear of death and permanent non-existence. Death is the one thing every race around the world has in common.
Why not? You are clinging to a classic logical fallacy that because something is popular then it must be true. This is known as argumentum ad populum. Truth is not determined by a majority vote. If we used your method of thinking we would have to conclude that indeed at one time the world must have been flat to reflect the time when most people on the planet believed that.
The only way to show something is true is to show evidence and to date no religious claim has ever demonstrated a single truth.
- Status