I don't think anyone has a "DUTY" to ever do anything. I think perhaps that really was the wrong word to use for that poll. I mean, if people ask me about my religion and how to join then I'll help convert them. Does that mean I answer "yes, i feel its my duty to convert people?" even though I only do this for interested people? HELP!
Duty to Convert
- Thread starter James R
- Start date
spamandham
Registered Senior Member
P. M. Thorne said:
No it isn't true. If it were, all philosophies that are not instinctive would die upon every new generation.
P. M. Thorne
Registered Senior Member
Spamandham. Well, okay; however, my dear Sir, I still believe that we to not learn anything we do not already know. And, excuse my saying so, but I truly do not understand exactly what you mean. If you have the time, and care to, I would be interested in knowing what it is you were telling me. I am missing something here, but thank you. I would like to give it more thought if I knew for sure what you are saying. Fair enough? pmt 
spamandham
Registered Senior Member
People come to believe things based on experience. There are converts to/from theism, to/from eastern philosophies, etc. That people can completely change philosophies is sufficient evidence that they can come to accept a philosophy they previously rejected.
P. M. Thorne
Registered Senior Member
Spamandham, Hi....
Yes, but in all honesty have you never rejected something that you knew was right. As for converting, people also covert from Baptist to Methodist, from one religion to another and then another, and then sell Amway. What I am talking about is not just accepting to be a part of a group and molding yourself to their ways, I am talking about what we truly believe. And, if I may, whereas it is true that people believe things based upon experience, we also believe things based upon inexperience. In the latter, our lack of experience has left much dormant, one might say, to be awakened as time passes. I say this not to be different.
Tell you what, the first time I heard, or read, (cannot recall now) that we never learn anything we do not already know, I coughed and spurted for a moment, but then as I pondered there is so much truth to that. I do not believe in absolutes from a human standpoint, but there is a whole bunch of truth to that. One more things, simply because one converts does not mean they truly buy the package. Sometimes we get into something to get out of something else. I think we do this, because when we pull out of a group, for whatever reason, it is a bit of a culture shock to belong to nothing. Now, that I know from experience.
Thank you for your response. PMT
Yes, but in all honesty have you never rejected something that you knew was right. As for converting, people also covert from Baptist to Methodist, from one religion to another and then another, and then sell Amway. What I am talking about is not just accepting to be a part of a group and molding yourself to their ways, I am talking about what we truly believe. And, if I may, whereas it is true that people believe things based upon experience, we also believe things based upon inexperience. In the latter, our lack of experience has left much dormant, one might say, to be awakened as time passes. I say this not to be different.
Tell you what, the first time I heard, or read, (cannot recall now) that we never learn anything we do not already know, I coughed and spurted for a moment, but then as I pondered there is so much truth to that. I do not believe in absolutes from a human standpoint, but there is a whole bunch of truth to that. One more things, simply because one converts does not mean they truly buy the package. Sometimes we get into something to get out of something else. I think we do this, because when we pull out of a group, for whatever reason, it is a bit of a culture shock to belong to nothing. Now, that I know from experience.
Thank you for your response. PMT
[QUOTE=P. M. Thorne
As for converting, people also covert from Baptist to Methodist, from one religion to another and then another, and then sell Amway.
*************
M*W: So true! This made me chuckle. That's exactly what my EX-husband did! He used his position (President of the Parish Council) to hawk Amway to the congregants.
*************
What I am talking about is not just accepting to be a part of a group and molding yourself to their ways, I am talking about what we truly believe.
*************
M*W: The ulterior motives at work here. Is nothing sacred?
*************
And, if I may, whereas it is true that people believe things based upon experience, we also believe things based upon inexperience. In the latter, our lack of experience has left much dormant, one might say, to be awakened as time passes. I say this not to be different.
*************
M*W: It's like the story of the Emperor's New Clothes.
*************
Tell you what, the first time I heard, or read, (cannot recall now) that we never learn anything we do not already know, I coughed and spurted for a moment, but then as I pondered there is so much truth to that. I do not believe in absolutes from a human standpoint, but there is a whole bunch of truth to that. One more things, simply because one converts does not mean they truly buy the package. Sometimes we get into something to get out of something else. I think we do this, because when we pull out of a group, for whatever reason, it is a bit of a culture shock to belong to nothing. Now, that I know from experience.
Thank you for your response. PMT
*************
M*W: We tend to follow blindly, or I should say, we tend to follow the blind blindly. Your Amway analogy is so true. Jesus died for me so I could sell Amway.
Yes, it is a shock to pull out of an organization. It's a personal loss, unless you fight for your life to get out of something like a cult. I grieved when I gave up Catholicism. I grieved because I realized the lies, and it was a loss to me. But, hey, I got over it, and I became more enlightened and closer to God. Christianity always wanted us to feel so distant and unworthy of God. That's BS.
As for converting, people also covert from Baptist to Methodist, from one religion to another and then another, and then sell Amway.
*************
M*W: So true! This made me chuckle. That's exactly what my EX-husband did! He used his position (President of the Parish Council) to hawk Amway to the congregants.
*************
What I am talking about is not just accepting to be a part of a group and molding yourself to their ways, I am talking about what we truly believe.
*************
M*W: The ulterior motives at work here. Is nothing sacred?
*************
And, if I may, whereas it is true that people believe things based upon experience, we also believe things based upon inexperience. In the latter, our lack of experience has left much dormant, one might say, to be awakened as time passes. I say this not to be different.
*************
M*W: It's like the story of the Emperor's New Clothes.
*************
Tell you what, the first time I heard, or read, (cannot recall now) that we never learn anything we do not already know, I coughed and spurted for a moment, but then as I pondered there is so much truth to that. I do not believe in absolutes from a human standpoint, but there is a whole bunch of truth to that. One more things, simply because one converts does not mean they truly buy the package. Sometimes we get into something to get out of something else. I think we do this, because when we pull out of a group, for whatever reason, it is a bit of a culture shock to belong to nothing. Now, that I know from experience.
Thank you for your response. PMT
*************
M*W: We tend to follow blindly, or I should say, we tend to follow the blind blindly. Your Amway analogy is so true. Jesus died for me so I could sell Amway.
Yes, it is a shock to pull out of an organization. It's a personal loss, unless you fight for your life to get out of something like a cult. I grieved when I gave up Catholicism. I grieved because I realized the lies, and it was a loss to me. But, hey, I got over it, and I became more enlightened and closer to God. Christianity always wanted us to feel so distant and unworthy of God. That's BS.
Although I'm an atheist, I like this. It always saddens me when theists have the mindset that they are born sinners, and are unworthy of God's grace.
Instead of grovelling before a God, and wallowing in their imperfections, they should be seeking to improve themselves.
We improve ourselves, at least those dedicated Christians do. The thing is, we first come to the realization that nothing we can do, will bring up to God's level. Our religious nature will not save us. The only way we can know Him and be brought up to His level is by His own power. This is where Christ's sacrifice comes into play. We can't work ourselves up to God's level, so the only alternative is God coming down to us, in the form of Christ. We are unworthy of grace; that's why it's called grace. If it were for what we did, then it would be called a reward. Instead it is known as a gift, something you don't earn.
As far as "improving" goes: this comes from getting/having a closer walk and fellowship with God. That might not make any sense, but that's what it is.
As far as "improving" goes: this comes from getting/having a closer walk and fellowship with God. That might not make any sense, but that's what it is.
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MountainHare makes a good point. I find this discouraging as well. Most people who carry on like that have little knowledge about being a truely wretched person, such as the author of Amazing Grace. No matter, one should realize one's potential, and enjoy all that we can be, rather than all that feigned degradation. (Did I spell that right?)
P. M. Thorne
Registered Senior Member
A rather strange comment, JCarl, that you do not deserve grace. Grace means unmerrited favor, right? Whereas I agree to some degree! There are other aspects to your claimed experience, like "Christ in you the hope of glory;" now seems like something to be happy about. "Beloved now are we the sons of God...." What? And please do not tell me it is by faith, as in something that will be. "Now" means now, right; otherwise John would have said, "one of these days." In addition could you comment on how you improve, if you do not mind. I am not asking to dispute, but I fail to see that Christians, without their fishes and crosses; churches and bibles, are much different from anyone else. Are we not all kind of in the same bucket, when all is said and done? PMT
P. M. Thorne said:
By definition, if I deserved grace it wouldn't be grace. Do you not agree?
Oh indeed it is something to be happy about; if we are not excited about the fact that the greatest kind of love was shown to us in Christ's death. But it has nothing with what "good works" we have done.
Ok. Once we are saved, we begin to dig deeper into what the Bible has to say. We search out the things the Bible talks about, so as to gain a better understanding of it. Along with increased study of God's Word also comes prayer and fellowship with God, the developing of our Spiritual gifts(one of/some combination of teaching, giving, tongues, etc.). one starts bearing the Spiritual fruits(see Gal. 5:22). People are able to see Jesus through us. Does that work?
I'm not really sure what you're talking about. In what way are we "not much different," and in what "bucket are we all in?"
P. M. Thorne
Registered Senior Member
Jcarl: The bucket of life my friend. And yes, if you deserved it, it would not be grace.
I lost my first message, so be it. Guess it was not that important. I do want to say that I understand what you are saying about studying, but the results you mention did not include increasing your love and understanding of mankind, but rather the religious things that separate you from the rest of mankind, at least in theory.
I have always enjoyed Paul's letter to the Philippians; it is so full of expressions of love.
What do you read mostly in the bible; and, if you do not mind, what do you read besides the bible. Please do not feel pressured to answer, but I would really like to know. Is that cool, or what? Apparently, you are in with a Charasmatic (sp?)group.
Take care. pmt
I lost my first message, so be it. Guess it was not that important. I do want to say that I understand what you are saying about studying, but the results you mention did not include increasing your love and understanding of mankind, but rather the religious things that separate you from the rest of mankind, at least in theory.
I have always enjoyed Paul's letter to the Philippians; it is so full of expressions of love.
What do you read mostly in the bible; and, if you do not mind, what do you read besides the bible. Please do not feel pressured to answer, but I would really like to know. Is that cool, or what? Apparently, you are in with a Charasmatic (sp?)group.
Take care. pmt
P. M. Thorne said:
Ok, for now yes. But when we--mankind, Christian or otherwise--die we will come before God and give an account for the things we have done. For the non-Christian, it will be did you accept Christ as your personal savior and replacement(The obvious answer is no, so those who didn't accept will be cast into Hell; there's no real "nice" way to say it, but Heb. 2:2-3 sums it up nicely:"For if the word spoken through the angels proved steadfast, and every disobedience give a just reward, how then shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation...). For the Christian, it will be what did we do for Him, what did we do for furthering His message. That is why what we do here on earth now is important, because we will come before God and give an account.
It's all in what we study. When we read the Sermon on the Mount, particularly 5:44:"But I say unto you, love your enemies..." and 22:39;"...you shall love your neighbor as yourself," we realize that we need to love people. We might hate the things they do, but we are called to love them as we do ourselves. As far as religious things, we are told to do them in private and w/o boasting and furthermore that they are worth nothing if there's nothing genuine(love esp.) backing it up. Personally I can not stand the word b/c of the ritualistic, mechanical connotation to it.
As far as the Bible goes, I enjoy read the Pauline epistles, Isaiah, James, and Jude especially. These are my favorite to study. As far as outside the Bible, I've read some C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity and currently working on Problem of Pain, some Norman Geisler, When Skeptics Ask, and a book that my church is doing a study on, Rick Warren's Purpose Driven Life. These are some particular high notes. On the other side of the coin, I get a good share of non-Christian stuff from this site. Nonetheless, I'm still looking around locally for Bertrand Russell's Why I am Not A Christian(I don't want to have to buy it, hoping I can check it out from some library).
Do you consider First Baptist Church of Dillon, SC to be Charismatic-type place( the average age is like late middle-age at youngest) So no I'm not in with the Charismatic crowd.P. M. Thorne
Registered Senior Member
JCarl wrote: Ok, for now yes. But when we--mankind, Christian or otherwise--die we will come before God and give an account for the things we have done. For the non-Christian, it will be did you accept Christ as your personal savior and replacement(The obvious answer is no, so those who didn't accept will be cast into Hell; ; there's no real "nice" way to say it, but Heb. 2:2-3 sums it up nicely:"For if the word spoken through the angels proved steadfast, and every disobedience give a just reward, how then shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation)
..........Ah yes, Hebrews, a beautifully written book, particularly in the King James Version. My favorite is the first chapter, which I memorized when I was fourteen.
..........Interesting that you would use that verse to prove your point, when that verse actually makes no mention of hell. Of course, if someone is endangered and he neglects the way to save himself (salvation), then it does stand to reason there would be a question as to whether he would ever escape that danger. There are other verses that might have more specifically backed your believe in hell. On the other hand is hell not supposed to be a place where all the dead go? One level for believers and one for non-believers, and then is death and hell not alleged to eventually cast into the lake of fire; therefore, is it not the lake of fire that is supposedly eternal. Do you truly believe that. I mean down deep in your heart, do you truly believe that our God would cast everyone into hell, to be later burned forever in a lake of fire? Why would God do such a thing?
.......Because someone failed to show up at church and repeat some words from the mouth of an evangelist or alter worker? Even if this was a person that loved his neighbor and cared about the earth, raised his children with love, worked hard all his life, but had not quite caught on to the concept of a savior dying on a cross, risen from the dead, and so forth. In other words, if one does not understand that, or cannot bring himself to believe it, God is going to burn that one forever and ever. Is this what you feel so good about that you are willing to tell folks they will go to hell if they do not believe like you?
JCarl: For the Christian, it will be what did we do for Him, what did we do for furthering His message. That is why what we do here on earth now is important, because we will come before God and give an account.
..............And after that happens, what then? Do you know?
JCarl: It's all in what we study. When we read the Sermon on the Mount, particularly 5:44:"But I say unto you, love your enemies..." and 22:39;"...you shall love your neighbor as yourself," we realize that we need to love people. We might hate the things they do, but we are called to love them as we do ourselves. As far as religious things, we are told to do them in private and w/o boasting and furthermore that they are worth nothing if there's nothing genuine(love esp.) backing it up. Personally I can not stand the word b/c of the ritualistic, mechanical connotation to it.
..............Do you hate the things they do, or the things that led them to do what they do. Which do you hate most? How about the confusion and misdirection that causes a person to do stupid things that do not serve him well? How about the anger that one may carry from childhood and continue with it until it all but consumes him. Is the anger you hate, or the ignorance of the people who helped this hate grow, and how would hating those things help him, or serve you? Have you thought about that? Also, what word is it that you cannot stand? Is it perhaps the word “religious?” You know what is hard for me to listen to? I will tell you. It is when someone quips: “I am a born again Christian,” and probably for similar reasons that you do not care for the word “religious,” if that was indeed the word to which you referred, (above).
..................Have you ever wondered why Christians decided to commence saying “born again Christian?” To anyone who understands what is meant by Christian, (by most Christians), and what is mean by “born again,” the phrase is entirely redundant. Another “huh oh” for Christendom. Surely, your own church does not believe that one can be a real Christian unless he is born again, and if born again, then one is a Christian, right?
.................As far as the Bible goes, I enjoy read the Pauline epistles, Isaiah, James, and Jude especially. These are my favorite to study. I am with you on the first two, but I have never been a fan of the book of James. Jude does not do much for me either. Of course, originally those letters were not to me, were they?
.................Regarding material outside the Bible: I've read some C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity and currently working on Problem of Pain, some Norman Geisler, When Skeptics Ask, and a book that my church is doing a study on, Rick Warren's Purpose Driven Life. These are some particular high notes. On the other side of the coin, I get a good share of non-Christian stuff from this site. Nonetheless, I'm still looking around locally for Bertrand Russell's Why I am Not A Christian(I don't want to have to buy it, hoping I can check it out from some library).
.................“Purpose Driven Life” is a great title. I too have read Mere Christianity, and really liked it. A friend brought me some books, all religious, and I commenced on each of them and tossed them aside, but that book held me all the way through. Lewis is a good philosopher, and strong in his convictions, so far as I can tell. You wrote that you get a “good share of non-Christian stuff from this site.” Well, that is different than say reading Durant’s “The Story of Civilization,” Monroe’s “Journeys Out of the Body,” or Melvin Belli’s “My Life on Trial.” I just wondered if you have the freedom to read something that is not about religious beliefs; in other words, something one would not buy from a “Christian Book Store.” It does not matter really. I just wondered.
JCarl: Do you consider First Baptist Church of Dillon, SC to be Charismatic-type place( the average age is like late middle-age at youngest) So no I'm not in with the Charismatic crowd.
.................Well, you certainly do not sound middle-aged or anywhere near it. The reason I thought you might be Charismatic, was the mentioning of “the gift of tongues.” Any Baptists I have known do not have much to say about that.
............I have never been that far south, but have a friend that lives there.
Hope you have many happy days. PMT
..........Ah yes, Hebrews, a beautifully written book, particularly in the King James Version. My favorite is the first chapter, which I memorized when I was fourteen.
..........Interesting that you would use that verse to prove your point, when that verse actually makes no mention of hell. Of course, if someone is endangered and he neglects the way to save himself (salvation), then it does stand to reason there would be a question as to whether he would ever escape that danger. There are other verses that might have more specifically backed your believe in hell. On the other hand is hell not supposed to be a place where all the dead go? One level for believers and one for non-believers, and then is death and hell not alleged to eventually cast into the lake of fire; therefore, is it not the lake of fire that is supposedly eternal. Do you truly believe that. I mean down deep in your heart, do you truly believe that our God would cast everyone into hell, to be later burned forever in a lake of fire? Why would God do such a thing?
.......Because someone failed to show up at church and repeat some words from the mouth of an evangelist or alter worker? Even if this was a person that loved his neighbor and cared about the earth, raised his children with love, worked hard all his life, but had not quite caught on to the concept of a savior dying on a cross, risen from the dead, and so forth. In other words, if one does not understand that, or cannot bring himself to believe it, God is going to burn that one forever and ever. Is this what you feel so good about that you are willing to tell folks they will go to hell if they do not believe like you?
JCarl: For the Christian, it will be what did we do for Him, what did we do for furthering His message. That is why what we do here on earth now is important, because we will come before God and give an account.
..............And after that happens, what then? Do you know?
JCarl: It's all in what we study. When we read the Sermon on the Mount, particularly 5:44:"But I say unto you, love your enemies..." and 22:39;"...you shall love your neighbor as yourself," we realize that we need to love people. We might hate the things they do, but we are called to love them as we do ourselves. As far as religious things, we are told to do them in private and w/o boasting and furthermore that they are worth nothing if there's nothing genuine(love esp.) backing it up. Personally I can not stand the word b/c of the ritualistic, mechanical connotation to it.
..............Do you hate the things they do, or the things that led them to do what they do. Which do you hate most? How about the confusion and misdirection that causes a person to do stupid things that do not serve him well? How about the anger that one may carry from childhood and continue with it until it all but consumes him. Is the anger you hate, or the ignorance of the people who helped this hate grow, and how would hating those things help him, or serve you? Have you thought about that? Also, what word is it that you cannot stand? Is it perhaps the word “religious?” You know what is hard for me to listen to? I will tell you. It is when someone quips: “I am a born again Christian,” and probably for similar reasons that you do not care for the word “religious,” if that was indeed the word to which you referred, (above).
..................Have you ever wondered why Christians decided to commence saying “born again Christian?” To anyone who understands what is meant by Christian, (by most Christians), and what is mean by “born again,” the phrase is entirely redundant. Another “huh oh” for Christendom. Surely, your own church does not believe that one can be a real Christian unless he is born again, and if born again, then one is a Christian, right?
.................As far as the Bible goes, I enjoy read the Pauline epistles, Isaiah, James, and Jude especially. These are my favorite to study. I am with you on the first two, but I have never been a fan of the book of James. Jude does not do much for me either. Of course, originally those letters were not to me, were they?
.................Regarding material outside the Bible: I've read some C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity and currently working on Problem of Pain, some Norman Geisler, When Skeptics Ask, and a book that my church is doing a study on, Rick Warren's Purpose Driven Life. These are some particular high notes. On the other side of the coin, I get a good share of non-Christian stuff from this site. Nonetheless, I'm still looking around locally for Bertrand Russell's Why I am Not A Christian(I don't want to have to buy it, hoping I can check it out from some library).
.................“Purpose Driven Life” is a great title. I too have read Mere Christianity, and really liked it. A friend brought me some books, all religious, and I commenced on each of them and tossed them aside, but that book held me all the way through. Lewis is a good philosopher, and strong in his convictions, so far as I can tell. You wrote that you get a “good share of non-Christian stuff from this site.” Well, that is different than say reading Durant’s “The Story of Civilization,” Monroe’s “Journeys Out of the Body,” or Melvin Belli’s “My Life on Trial.” I just wondered if you have the freedom to read something that is not about religious beliefs; in other words, something one would not buy from a “Christian Book Store.” It does not matter really. I just wondered.
JCarl: Do you consider First Baptist Church of Dillon, SC to be Charismatic-type place( the average age is like late middle-age at youngest) So no I'm not in with the Charismatic crowd.
.................Well, you certainly do not sound middle-aged or anywhere near it. The reason I thought you might be Charismatic, was the mentioning of “the gift of tongues.” Any Baptists I have known do not have much to say about that.
............I have never been that far south, but have a friend that lives there.
Hope you have many happy days. PMT
P. M. Thorne
Registered Senior Member
To MEDICINE WOMAN:
M*W: So true! This made me chuckle. That's exactly what my EX-husband did! He used his position (President of the Parish Council) to hawk Amway to the congregants.
I understand. It just seems to me that people that run here and there to find some kind of religious gratification are often the same ones who sell Amway and attend free seminars on how to get rich.
M*W: We tend to follow blindly, or I should say, we tend to follow the blind blindly. Your Amway analogy is so true. Jesus died for me so I could sell Amway.
Or Mary Kay. Have you ever been to one of those meetings. Avon is not far behind. They make it a religion, and it amazing to watch. Not in a million years…..
Yes, it is a shock to pull out of an organization. It's a personal loss, unless you fight for your life to get out of something like a cult. I grieved when I gave up Catholicism. I grieved because I realized the lies, and it was a loss to me. But, hey, I got over it, and I became more enlightened and closer to God.
My goodness, someone who actually understands what I meant. I have tried to explain this to people, that when you live in a very small world for so many years, religious or not, and then commence to deal with the world as a whole, it is rather overwhelming.
Christianity always wanted us to feel so distant and unworthy of God. That's BS.
Well, I never noticed the distant-thing, but then I was Catholic, and fortunately the believers with whom I associated did not dwell so much on what is called the “Old Nature.” They believed that God never forsakes us no matter what. I was lucky in that regard.
Sorry I took so long to answer this, but I did appreciate your insight.
Later. PMT
M*W: So true! This made me chuckle. That's exactly what my EX-husband did! He used his position (President of the Parish Council) to hawk Amway to the congregants.
I understand. It just seems to me that people that run here and there to find some kind of religious gratification are often the same ones who sell Amway and attend free seminars on how to get rich.
M*W: We tend to follow blindly, or I should say, we tend to follow the blind blindly. Your Amway analogy is so true. Jesus died for me so I could sell Amway.
Or Mary Kay. Have you ever been to one of those meetings. Avon is not far behind. They make it a religion, and it amazing to watch. Not in a million years…..
Yes, it is a shock to pull out of an organization. It's a personal loss, unless you fight for your life to get out of something like a cult. I grieved when I gave up Catholicism. I grieved because I realized the lies, and it was a loss to me. But, hey, I got over it, and I became more enlightened and closer to God.
My goodness, someone who actually understands what I meant. I have tried to explain this to people, that when you live in a very small world for so many years, religious or not, and then commence to deal with the world as a whole, it is rather overwhelming.
Christianity always wanted us to feel so distant and unworthy of God. That's BS.
Well, I never noticed the distant-thing, but then I was Catholic, and fortunately the believers with whom I associated did not dwell so much on what is called the “Old Nature.” They believed that God never forsakes us no matter what. I was lucky in that regard.
Sorry I took so long to answer this, but I did appreciate your insight.
Later. PMT
P. M. Thorne
Registered Senior Member
M*W Oh shoot. Hate it when I do that. Should read, I was NOT Catholic. Sorry.
P. M. Thorne said:
This would have been here earlier, but it got deleted.
Are we not all in danger of dying? Then that "if" statement stands for all of us. We are all given a pardon from death by Christ's death on the cross. That is our door: it is up to us to go through that door.
oh yeh. Matt. 5:22. and Luke 16:19-31 corroborate the existence of a Hell.
Um...not to my knowledge. This sounds Purgatoriesque, and I see no evidence of Purgatory in the Bible. So the answer is no.
Yes, so the two are really only different in length of time; Hell lasts until the Great White Throne Judgement. There Books of Life are opened, their[the unsaved] names are not found, and then they are cast into the Lake of FIre, which then continues on forever.
Yes, I believe that with all my heart. Go back to Heb. 2:2-3:"...and every transgression and disobedience given a just reward, how then shall we escape..." Christ is our only ticket out of Hell and into Heaven; if we burn it, throw it away or simply leave it at home, how then shall we get past Hell? Why would God do such a thing? That asking the wrong question. Let's turn that question around and ask,"Why would we do such a thing as reject so magnificant a salvation?"
This is religion, not necessarily faith; there's no doubt in my mind that people who have done this have gone to Hell because they didn't accept it in their hearts.
I'll bring you back to the Heb. 2. How is anybody going to escape if they don't take advantage of the window they're given? Good works, like those you mentioned, don't save you. It is a gift.
There are so many things I can't understand in this world. I don't fully understand how I'm able to talk with you like this. But I'm not about to let my ignorance in the mechanics of it keep me from using it.
If you had a ticket to a ball game and you left it home, do you think you would get in that stadium?
No; what a sick and sadistic person I would be!! What I feel good about is that I have been saved from Hell and now have the privilege of spending eternity with Christ. The reason I am willing to tell others like yourself is that the same salvation is available to you too. If you, or me or anyone else on the planet, died without accepting Christ as one's Savior and replacement, then you would go to Hell. The reason I am telling you is that it doesn't have to be this way for you.
1 Cor. 4:13-14: "Each one's[the saved] work will become clear, for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, to see of what sort it is. If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, then he will receive a reward."
That sums it up quite nicely I think. What these rewards are I don't know, but suffice it to say that God will give each work a,"...a just reward."
Both, b/c they both contribute to the eventual sin.
Well...hating those things, while simultaneously loving the person, would help him in showing him his error and that in Christ there is hope, for in Him all things are made new(2 Cor. 5:17)
How it would serve me is inconsequential. It doesn't matter, b/c that shouldn't be my motive for doing something good.
Indeed.
By George I think you've got something here.
James, Jude, and most all of the non-Pauline epistles are general epistles that focus more on the Christian walk and the Christ-based Life.
And a fabulous read as well.
My dad has Durant's series; I just haven't had time to read through much of it. I'm not familiar with the other two books.
No problem. Yes I have more than my share of "non-religious" stuff. I've read Friedman's Free to Choose[Economics, not Free Will]. For the last six months I've been trying to wade through Dostoevsky's "Brothers Karamazov." Currently I'm dabbling with one of my dad's old college books on existentialism. I'm also a fan of Clancy novels. So yes, I would say that I have plenty of freedom in my selection of literature.
I'm not: turned 16 in December.
Ah, I see now. I only mentioned it because it is a gift of the God, albeit and abused and often confused gift. I personally don't have it, and have only seen it once on Tv.
Whrere ever you are, for your own sake Stay there j/k.
"And now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling and present you faultless before the Presence of His glory with exceeding joy. To God our Savior, who alone is wise, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and forevver."-Jude 24-25.
I pray that you may find Christ, for therein is true joy.
RJC
P. M. Thorne said:
Are we not all in danger of dying? Then that "if" statement stands for all of us. We are all given a pardon from death by Christ's death on the cross. That is our door: it is up to us to go through that door.
oh yeh. Matt. 5:22. and Luke 16:19-31 corroborate the existence of a Hell.
Um...not to my knowledge. This sounds Purgatoriesque, and I see no evidence of Purgatory in the Bible. So the answer is no.
Yes, so the two are really only different in length of time; Hell lasts until the Great White Throne Judgement. There Books of Life are opened, their[the unsaved] names are not found, and then they are cast into the Lake of FIre, which then continues on forever.
Yes, I believe that with all my heart. Go back to Heb. 2:2-3:"...and every transgression and disobedience given a just reward, how then shall we escape..." Christ is our only ticket out of Hell and into Heaven; if we burn it, throw it away or simply leave it at home, how then shall we get past Hell? Why would God do such a thing? That asking the wrong question. Let's turn that question around and ask,"Why would we do such a thing as reject so magnificant a salvation?"
This is religion, not necessarily faith; there's no doubt in my mind that people who have done this have gone to Hell because they didn't accept it in their hearts.
I'll bring you back to the Heb. 2. How is anybody going to escape if they don't take advantage of the window they're given? Good works, like those you mentioned, don't save you. It is a gift.
There are so many things I can't understand in this world. I don't fully understand how I'm able to talk with you like this. But I'm not about to let my ignorance in the mechanics of it keep me from using it.
If you had a ticket to a ball game and you left it home, do you think you would get in that stadium?
No; what a sick and sadistic person I would be!! What I feel good about is that I have been saved from Hell and now have the privilege of spending eternity with Christ. The reason I am willing to tell others like yourself is that the same salvation is available to you too. If you, or me or anyone else on the planet, died without accepting Christ as one's Savior and replacement, then you would go to Hell. The reason I am telling you is that it doesn't have to be this way for you.
1 Cor. 4:13-14: "Each one's[the saved] work will become clear, for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, to see of what sort it is. If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, then he will receive a reward."
That sums it up quite nicely I think. What these rewards are I don't know, but suffice it to say that God will give each work a,"...a just reward."
Both, b/c they both contribute to the eventual sin.
Well...hating those things, while simultaneously loving the person, would help him in showing him his error and that in Christ there is hope, for in Him all things are made new(2 Cor. 5:17)
How it would serve me is inconsequential. It doesn't matter, b/c that shouldn't be my motive for doing something good.
Indeed.
By George I think you've got something here.
James, Jude, and most all of the non-Pauline epistles are general epistles that focus more on the Christian walk and the Christ-based Life.
And a fabulous read as well.
My dad has Durant's series; I just haven't had time to read through much of it. I'm not familiar with the other two books.
No problem. Yes I have more than my share of "non-religious" stuff. I've read Friedman's Free to Choose[Economics, not Free Will]. For the last six months I've been trying to wade through Dostoevsky's "Brothers Karamazov." Currently I'm dabbling with one of my dad's old college books on existentialism. I'm also a fan of Clancy novels. So yes, I would say that I have plenty of freedom in my selection of literature.
I'm not: turned 16 in December.
Ah, I see now. I only mentioned it because it is a gift of the God, albeit and abused and often confused gift. I personally don't have it, and have only seen it once on Tv.
Whrere ever you are, for your own sake Stay there
j/k. "And now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling and present you faultless before the Presence of His glory with exceeding joy. To God our Savior, who alone is wise, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and forevver."-Jude 24-25.
I pray that you may find Christ, for therein is true joy.
RJC
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Yes, we should, but won't.