Does God make mistakes?

[NMSquirrel]

No, it was certainly you who mentioned your family members have been married many times. That would make them adulterers in the eyes of your god.

ah but i did not call them adulterers..you did..
why are you trying so hard to put all christians in a box?
its like you are saying you can see how christians are messed up, and its your job to put them back in their place..
i keep telling you we are just as messed up as you are.
you say you are not messed up?..congrats.. there are christians who think that way too..

No, that's what YOU do. I simply point out the hypocrisy and contradiction of those who claim they know what god wants and then do the opposite.

thats our own humanity we are fighting with..

Growing up does not appear to be anything you're able to understand as you continue to embrace child like characteristics of belief in invisible friends and doing the exact opposite of what you tell others to do.

what am i doing opposite of what i am telling?..
don't tell me what the bible says i should be.
i seriously doubt he wants a world full of clones..
are you still trying to keep me in your christian box?
i am sure i am the person he wants me to be,

 

[Lori_7]

??????????????????????????????????????? Are you serious dude????????????

You think all sinners have a right to be killed? Children too? Even you??? Unfreakingbelievable! Seriously???????????????????? I mean you no disrespect but that is warped thinking my friend. You realize that learning stops when you are dead? What’s the point?

the point is that people die. everybody dies. you start dying the day you're born. children die. yes, i'm serious.

I’m sure Jim Jones thought the same thing, but I think you and I both know that was a very tragic and sick thing.

and jim jones isn't god. i think that's pretty obvious.

Killing babies and children are NEVER right. Throwing a fit and killing people because one is angry is NEVER right. Ordering people to be killed for selfish motives is NEVER right. Be it God or Charles Manson….it’s never ever right.

maybe you should be god. why don't you create a universe?

It’s a con game of the Biblical God. This Biblical God was the one who introduced sin into the world. He is the creator the orchestrator of sin. For what purpose? The way I see it, so he could control others via scare fucking tactics. He gets people to rely on him because they don’t want to go to Hell and be tortured for eternity. Don’t believe me? I bet a billion dollars (If I had it) that there would be very few Christians today if hell was out of the picture. So…you got a God who introduces sin into the world and because of it puts all souls in danger of going to hell. It’s like your child being born with cancer and you punish him for it. The Biblical God is a dick.

sin is the transgression of law that is embedded in creation. you can't have right without wrong. so god's giving us an education so we can know the difference.

that's not dickish.

What bothers me is when Christians refuse to admit that the Biblical God lies in the Bible, manipulates, uses scare tactics, goes on killing sprees and refuse to admit his violence is wrong. If it was right, then why the hell is Charles Manson in prison today because it seems to me he was following along right in God’s footsteps.

well i guess that's what he gets for attempting such a ridiculous endeavor.

 

[Doreen]

Um, that isn't quite what I said, or implied.

I was responding to this...

Purely subjective experiences do not constitute proof of external phenomena.

Note that the phrase 'purely subjective experiences' is doubly redundant. Experiences are sujbective. You can not have slightly subjective experiences, so the adverb 'purely' seems to imply that experiences other than the one you are being critical of as evidence is different in degree of subjectiveness. But the experience is just as subjective as any scientific observation.

I realize that science has a specific methodology to organize subjective experiences to achieve knowledge. But I actually think scientists tend to forget that they are empiricists and hence we end up with phrases like 'purely subjective experience' as a pejorative term.

 

[Doreen]

because we're all in this together. it's all or nothing. the whole point of creation is communion. without that aspect of it, none of what we do really matters.

This made no sense. You said earlier that we were all liars, etc. But some babies, before they could remotely manage to lie, are tortured and killed. Us all being in this together doesn't address God exposing them to this, given your reasoning about all of us being liars, etc.

 

[Doreen]

"some", or "any" really. i just think it's something that should be more personal between an individual and god. i like hearing about other people's testimonies, and talking about god, but i don't think that should be the basis for any person to believe in or know god.

So , the Bible is not such a good idea since this is used by people instead of going directly to God.

i could describe to you what my mother is like. but if you met my mom, you may have different opinions of her, and may understand her in a different way than i do because you have a different perspective. that doesn't mean she's two different people, but that i would have one understanding of her, and perhaps you would have another.

So why do you come to sciforums and talk about your experiences of God?

 

[Alan McDougall]

This made no sense. You said earlier that we were all liars, etc. But some babies, before they could remotely manage to lie, are tortured and killed. Us all being in this together doesn't address God exposing them to this, given your reasoning about all of us being liars, etc.

I admit babies are tortured , raped and killed, this exact act of depravity has happened hundreds of times in my country South Africa, but by evil reprobates , not God loving people such as active Christians

These evil people are mostly are driven by greed "eat drink and be merry for tomorrow you die"


I believe that when I person arrives in the afterlife, they must give account for their lives before a holy and righteous god

 

[Lori_7]

This made no sense. You said earlier that we were all liars, etc. But some babies, before they could remotely manage to lie, are tortured and killed. Us all being in this together doesn't address God exposing them to this, given your reasoning about all of us being liars, etc.

it does actually, by saying that we're all in this together, and it's all or nothing. sin affects everyone, even babies who haven't had a chance to do much at all. if you're communing with other humans, their sin affects you and vice versa. babies are born into a world that's the product of cumulative and compounded sin. they just got here; it's not their fault, but if they're human they'll keep on adding to the pot.

 

[Lori_7]

So , the Bible is not such a good idea since this is used by people instead of going directly to God.

that can be true. i think you see it all the time when people use certain scriptures to support an agenda.

i think that the bible's author should also be it's interpreter.

So why do you come to sciforums and talk about your experiences of God?

because it's fun.

 

[wynn]

if you're communing with other humans, their sin affects you and vice versa.

Yup yup -

 

[Doreen]

that can be true. i think you see it all the time when people use certain scriptures to support an agenda.

i think that the bible's author should also be it's interpreter.

The bible's authors are dead.

because it's fun.

So even though it is probably not a good idea for other people to listen to you - read you - you do it because it is fun.

 

[Doreen]

it does actually, by saying that we're all in this together, and it's all or nothing. sin affects everyone, even babies who haven't had a chance to do much at all. if you're communing with other humans, their sin affects you and vice versa. babies are born into a world that's the product of cumulative and compounded sin. they just got here; it's not their fault, but if they're human they'll keep on adding to the pot.

Again, this makes no sense. The babies might add to the pot, one day, if they continues to live, but they get killed before this can happen. An all powerful God could prevent this, prevent the torture of innocents.

Do you think I can hurt other people, for example toddlers, following your logic, because they are part of all this and may one day contribute?

If not, why does God do it?

 

[Big Chiller]

You're judging God on human terms but He isn't judged on any terms. One way to look at this is God absolutely owns all His creations that's not how we own things He owns everything absolutely in that nothing can exist without Him so He has absolute rights over everything else.

 

[Doreen]

You're judging God on human terms but He isn't judged on any terms.

No, I am judging God on Lori's terms. She said first that we all lie and hate, when it was pointed out that horrible things happen to people. Then when I pointed out that babies do not do this, but they suffer, she said that they are affected by everyone else's sinning. IOW they are somehow to blame anyway. This makes no sense. She is justifying God's actions and I am pointing out that her justification makes no sense.

Now you come in and say that God cannot be judged. But oddly you say this to me and not her. She has a logic for why it is OK for God to let babies be raped and killed.

One way to look at this is God absolutely owns all His creations that's not how we own things He owns everything absolutely in that nothing can exist without Him so He's absolute rights over everything else.

Which is what earthly despots have thought and said also. But notice you are justifying God via an ownership metaphor. And you have just justified an unloving God who owns children but doesn't give a shit if they are tortured to death, which is God's right since he owns them. Fine, he owns them and it's his right, but he isn't loving.

 

[wynn]

You're judging God on human terms but He isn't judged on any terms. One way to look at this is God absolutely owns all His creations that's not how we own things He owns everything absolutely in that nothing can exist without Him so He has absolute rights over everything else.

It's not about judging God; it's about explaining and understanding the nature of God and man, and the relationship between them.

 

[Doreen]

It's not about judging God; it's about explaining and understanding the nature of God and man, and the relationship between them.

This is also true. It is interesting to me that when theists justify the actions and non-actions of God, this is not seen as judging God. But if someone is critical or confused, then it is seen as judging God. In both cases a mere mortal is rationalizing the actions and decisions of the deity but only one of them is seen as making an epistemological error.

I realized another issue raised by Chiller's post. I am not judging God. I am judging Lori's rationale. Since this rationale - and perhaps the version of God - is likely similar to Chiller's, he assumes I am judging God.

 

[wynn]

I think this problem goes back to fideism - that notion that "We can't understand it, therefore we just have to accept it on faith".

There are many levels/degrees of fideism, and every explanation stops somewhere and has to be accepted on faith.

I do think that many theists stop too early.

 

[Lori_7]

The bible's authors are dead.

i was talking about the holy spirit.

So even though it is probably not a good idea for other people to listen to you - read you - you do it because it is fun.

why wouldn't it be a good idea or fun to communicate?

 

[Lori_7]

Again, this makes no sense. The babies might add to the pot, one day, if they continues to live, but they get killed before this can happen. An all powerful God could prevent this, prevent the torture of innocents.

Do you think I can hurt other people, for example toddlers, following your logic, because they are part of all this and may one day contribute?

If not, why does God do it?

you can hurt other people, including toddlers, because you can contribute, and we are all a part of this together. and it goes deeper than that when you consider sin a genetic condition that's passed down from parent to child.

 

[Doreen]

you can hurt other people, including toddlers, because you can contribute, and we are all a part of this together. and it goes deeper than that when you consider sin a genetic condition that's passed down from parent to child.

Of course we adults can sin. But the babies cannot. So you believe the babies that are raped and tortured were sinners. Must be a relief to know they got what was coming to them.

 

[Doreen]

i was talking about the holy spirit.

Why would the holy spirit need to 'interpret'? If it is only the HS that is to interpret than the Bible serves no purpose for humans.

why wouldn't it be a good idea or fun to communicate?

I never said it wouldn't be fun. But it seemed like you were saying that people should not go to theists with their questions about God because all this should be direct with God. But here you are sharing your interpretations and experiences.