Does God make mistakes?

[Lori_7]

Can you be clear about this? You are coming into a dialogue between me and Lori. Do you really think the above clarifies anything?

Are babies who cry sinners? Is it a sign of their having sinner genes as Lori asserted?

the answer to both of those questions imo is yes.

 

[Doreen]

the answer to both of those questions imo is yes.

I was asking someone else. But now this is very odd. You said I was a spin doctor, but here you are agreeing that crying is a sign of having sinner genes.

 

[Doreen]

it seems like you're spin doctoring. like i said, we're all born with the same defect, and it inhibits all of us equally. we're individuals so, we don't behave the same way but we all do suffer.

Sure, we all suffer. Some babies cry because they have gas, not because they have sinner genes. You think we suffer because we are bad. That is blaming the victim.

 

[Doreen]

i think my what i said was entirely relevant to what you asked. you questioned the obsolescence of the bible, and i told you that god's used it to teach me things. the holy spirit has used the bible, and a lot of other means.

I questioned what the use of the Bible was given what you said about other people's experiences and thoughts. I said nothing about obsolescence which has to do with something losing meaning or usefulness over time. You answered as if my question was not in any context. And here you added this nuance of obselescence. Your answers are off or not fitting the context repeatedly.

you questioned why i post out here and i told you...because i like to share. imo, communion is the meaning of life.

After having told Signal that one should not do this with theists. Context. Context. No I have to give up. I am sorry. I will put you on ignore. I keep thinking 'this time she will see what she is doing' and it doesn't happen.

 

[wynn]

Originally Posted by Doreen
Can you be clear about this? You are coming into a dialogue between me and Lori. Do you really think the above clarifies anything?

Are babies who cry sinners? Is it a sign of their having sinner genes as Lori asserted?

the answer to both of those questions imo is yes.

I am afraid this is something to prepare for, among some theists.
I knew a Calvinist who, being a father of to small children, claimed children are sinful; that they cry is proof that they do not respect and trust their parents to take care of them.

 

[Jan Ardena]

One thing about fideism is that it ALSO should stop people from doing what Lori is doing, which is explaining why what God does is really OK. This is as much a claim to knowledge as someone saying it is not OK for this or that reason. But there is a cake and eat it too by many theists where they claim it makes sense and even can explain it, but when non-theists or other theists are critical, they then receive the response that it is beyond understanding.

You're the one who is putting God in the position of "allowing" babies to be tortured.
Have you considered that what happens in the material atmosphere is subject to cause and effect?
And God only relates to those that relate to Him?

jan.

 

[wynn]

You're the one who is putting God in the position of "allowing" babies to be tortured.
Have you considered that what happens in the material atmosphere is subject to cause and effect?
And God only relates to those that relate to Him?

I have gotten the impression, from Doreen's earlier posts in this thread, that she wishes to see how raped babies make sense specifically from a Christian position.

 

[Jan Ardena]

I have gotten the impression, from Doreen's earlier posts in this thread, that she wishes to see how raped babies make sense specifically from a Christian position.

As the OP makes no such distinction, it should be looked at openly, and from
a non-religious POV, as well as a religious one.

God is the subject matter which is to do with spiritual and material reasonings.

jan.

 

[wynn]

As the OP makes no such distinction, it should be looked at openly, and from
a non-religious POV, as well as a religious one.

The OP provided only biblical resources, suggesting a Christianity-centred discussion of the topic.

God is the subject matter which is to do with spiritual and material reasonings.

Okay. Where do you get the confidence to rule out the KJV and fire and brimstone Christianity?

 

[Dywyddyr]

As the OP makes no such distinction, it should be looked at openly, and from a non-religious POV, as well as a religious one.

Since the subject of the thread (as indicated by the title) is GOD's Mistakes (see that three-letter word in there? Take another look) then it makes makes no sense to introduce strawmen by suggesting looking at the topic from a non-religious POV.

 

[wynn]

Jan -
I replied to your post in 262. Would you like to reply?

 

[wynn]

One thing about fideism is that it ALSO should stop people from doing what Lori is doing, which is explaining why what God does is really OK.

No. That would not be fideism then.

This is as much a claim to knowledge as someone saying it is not OK for this or that reason. But there is a cake and eat it too by many theists where they claim it makes sense and even can explain it, but when non-theists or other theists are critical, they then receive the response that it is beyond understanding.

Those theists come from the perspective that they have God on their side, and/or that they take God's side.

It is a kind of provisional strategy and a process, as opposed to a concluded transaction.

Consider this exchange:

perhaps. or perhaps they should talk to a lot of different people about it, but they should realize that talking to people isn't necessarily going to get them any closer to god, and that people don't make up the "terms", god does.

Says you!

well otherwise it's just a big pile of manmade crap, and what the hell are we even talking about it for?

She believes that what she says about God is indeed from/about God, as otherwise, she would have to believe that it could all have been merely manmade.
But she also allows for admitting some fallibility on her part.

The "eat the cake and have it too" is about when they admit their own fallibility, and when they imply to know God perfectly.

I don't think one can choose this, as a direct, one-time, analytical action.
I think this is trust.
Like if you have a brother and you feel you trust eachother. You sometimes take it upon yourself to speak on your brother's behalf. Sometimes, your brother agrees that you represent him correctly, and other times he doesn't and corrects you. But the mutual trust between the two of you outweighs your fear of misrepresenting him, you feel so good in your relationship with him that you are willing to risk making mistakes, because you trust that he will forgive you and correct you, and that you will be able to learn from the correction and not feel defeated by having to ask for forgiveness.

I think many people do not have this sort of experience of trust in relationships with fellow humans, what to speak with God.


Just consider: Lori seems to think she can post a picture of her behind, as a rude reply to another member, yet somehow, she feels certain that God will not hold that against her, that He will forgive her, and she seems confident that she will be able to repent if necessary, without feeling paralyzed by the remorse. Somehow, she seems to believe that God loves her, "warts and all".

 

[Lori_7]

I was asking someone else. But now this is very odd. You said I was a spin doctor, but here you are agreeing that crying is a sign of having sinner genes.

yes, they're uncomfortable, for a variety of reasons, but generally, because sin is in their bodies. sin inhibits our communion with god and we all suffer because of it.

the spin comes in though when you suggest resorting to blame and/or retribution as a resolution, or an appropriate reaction to it. imo the appropriate reaction is to love each other.

 

[Lori_7]

Sure, we all suffer. Some babies cry because they have gas, not because they have sinner genes. You think we suffer because we are bad. That is blaming the victim.

we all suffer if we have gas. i think we feel pain (physical and emotional) because our bodies are fucked up. we're all victims.

 

[(Q)]

ah but i did not call them adulterers..you did..

No, your god called then adulterers, look it up, or have you not read your holy book, yet? They are or will burn in hell. You will, too, according to your bible.

why are you trying so hard to put all christians in a box?

This has nothing to do with me and everything to do with the hypocrisy of the Christian cult and it's followers. You tell us all how to live according to your god and then ignore your god when it suits your purposes. It's a joke.

its like you are saying you can see how christians are messed up, and its your job to put them back in their place..
i keep telling you we are just as messed up as you are.

Sorry, but I don't follow psychotic religions and psychotic gods.

thats our own humanity we are fighting with..

Bullshit, your cult abhors humanity.

what am i doing opposite of what i am telling?..
don't tell me what the bible says i should be.
i seriously doubt he wants a world full of clones..
are you still trying to keep me in your christian box?
i am sure i am the person he wants me to be,

Clearly, you haven't even read your bible. Most Christians haven't. They usually just parrot the garbage they've been indoctrinated to believe from childhood. You appear to be one of them.

No, you are far from the person your bible wants you to be. You've provided evidence to demonstrate that in spades.

 

[(Q)]

You're judging God on human terms but He isn't judged on any terms. One way to look at this is God absolutely owns all His creations that's not how we own things He owns everything absolutely in that nothing can exist without Him so He has absolute rights over everything else.

Complete garbage. You speak for your god without any knowledge whatsoever. Lying for Jeebus or Allah or some other imaginary friend. No morals. None.

 

[(Q)]

i think that the bible has encouraged me in a lot of ways.

Certainly not fornication out of wedlock. The bible is quite clear about that. So, you've been encouraged to sin in the eyes of your god and ignore the bible. Who encouraged that?

and god has had a huge impact on my life so of course i like talking about that.

Too bad your god had no impact on your fornication. If you had a shred of morals, you might not have done so.

 

[(Q)]

that can be true. i think you see it all the time when people use certain scriptures to support an agenda.

Or, when they use scriptures to support their agenda and then turn around and ignore scriptures to support their agenda. Hilarious. LOL!

 

[Lori_7]

I questioned what the use of the Bible was given what you said about other people's experiences and thoughts. I said nothing about obsolescence which has to do with something losing meaning or usefulness over time. You answered as if my question was not in any context. And here you added this nuance of obselescence. Your answers are off or not fitting the context repeatedly.

After having told Signal that one should not do this with theists. Context. Context. No I have to give up. I am sorry. I will put you on ignore. I keep thinking 'this time she will see what she is doing' and it doesn't happen.

i'm sorry i've turned you into such a martyr.

the context is this...

seekers are seeking god himself...knowledge of the existence of god. you could call it a personal relationship, which is achieved via the holy spirit. imo, you can not achieve a personal knowledge of the existence of god from simply reading a book, even if it's the bible, or hearing someone else's testimony regarding god.

that doesn't render books, like the bible, or someone's testimony useless. it may give you something to think about, or something to ask questions about.

but it's not going to answer the question "does god exist?".

imo, the only way to know it for sure is to interact with god, via the spirit. it's a difference between believing and knowing. it's the difference between reading a book about god, or hearing a person's opinion about god, or the testimony of god's interaction with them, and having an interaction with god yourself.

i don't think god is "found" by a seeker until this interaction is achieved. reading and talking about god might get you closer to this interaction, or it might not. it may supplement the interaction once achieved, but isn't an interaction itself. the bible tells about other people who have experienced god, and it tells you how to experience god, but it is not the experience itself.

you hear someone talk about skydiving and it sounds like fun. so you read some book about how it's done and think you might like to try it. so you go skydiving, and now you know what it's like to skydive. no person who's ever done it before and no book could ever describe skydiving well enough for you to know what it's like to actually do it.

 

[Lori_7]

Certainly not fornication out of wedlock. The bible is quite clear about that. So, you've been encouraged to sin in the eyes of your god and ignore the bible. Who encouraged that?



Too bad your god had no impact on your fornication. If you had a shred of morals, you might not have done so.

you're wrong and you're in the wrong thread.